Church Panic

[Alecto]

That would not have been God's embrace then - a demon would have supplied that feeling, and you would think it is God's embrace, making you think He is some kind of evil monster. Such would be in line with the devil's goal of keeping people away from God. He doesn't care how he does it, as long as people are kept away from believing in Jesus.

I was under the impression that a church was holy ground and the devil could not operate there

Could they have possibly done this to you?

Possibly, yes. The Gods are just as we are, they have thoughts and feelings, emotions and urges. Though I personally doubt it, they know my loyalties lie with them and I am in no danger of turncoating to God and that no army of thousands may change my mind. They know this so it does not make sense that they would punish me for entering a church

 

[I <3 Abraham]

The pentacle is a symbol of protection, its also a very personal symbol to me. Also, my being an empath requires some form of protective shielding if I go out in public otherwise its hard to function. Those combined should have been enough to keep any centralized or focused negativity away, it always has in the past, I dont see why it wouldnt now.

I think that what you experienced was a panic attack. I think that you are a young person who has early and treatable case of psychosis (a clinical term meaning inability to distinguish reality), and you also probably are agoraphobic (another clinical term relating to fear of crowds and also open spaces). I say agoraphobic because probably your "empathic" nature is more than likely an overfocusing of attention on crowds of people when you are outside, coupled with a mild case of psychosis you could easily experience feelings of the people "closing in on you" or hearing their feelings as a tumult.
People tend to think that all mental illnesses manifest in depression, this is not the case, you may be quite able to help your friends along with their problems. Your ability to discern when your friends are troubled and what is troubling them is, realistically, simply a high degree of intelligence and sociability.

I have two pieces of advice from someone who has dealt with this before.

1)Consult a psychiatrist, not a therapist, not a psychologist, not a preacher, but an M.D. Tell them the truth and ask their opinion on the events as you remember them.

2)Under no circumstances should you take any hallucinogenic drugs, including E.

I have one question: do you have a history of mental illness in your family?

 

[Sketcher]

I was under the impression that a church was holy ground and the devil could not operate there[/font]

He's been known to lash out in churches from time to time. For example, there's a story I read about the Brooklyn Tabernacle. There was a demon-possessed girl there. The demon was driven off and she was healed, but until that battle was over she did make one heck of a scene.

Something that is closer to your situation I have seen myself. A friend of mine took her pagan boyfriend to a Christian hangout. During the intense worship time, he was NOT AT ALL COMFORTABLE and smoked outside for about an hour.

Possibly, yes. The Gods are just as we are, they have thoughts and feelings, emotions and urges. Though I personally doubt it, they know my loyalties lie with them and I am in no danger of turncoating to God and that no army of thousands may change my mind. They know this so it does not make sense that they would punish me for entering a church

Hey, a little reinforcement always helps.

 

[Alecto]

I think that what you experienced was a panic attack

I dont think so, Ive had a panic attack before, this felt nothing like a panic attack

and you also probably are agoraphobic (another clinical term relating to fear of crowds and also open spaces). I say agoraphobic because probably your "empathic" nature is more than likely an overfocusing of attention on crowds of people when you are outside, coupled with a mild case of psychosis you could easily experience feelings of the people "closing in on you" or hearing their feelings as a tumult.

Possibly, allthough I really dont have a problem with open spaces, or closed spaces for that matter. Id merrily crawl down a ventilator shaft or skip across a huge open field, it doesnt bother me. PEOPLE on the other hand, I dont like being around people. If its a MASSIVE crowd then Im a bit more comfortable.

An empath is someone who can pick up on the emotions and feelings of the people around them. Its being able to actually FEEL what other people are feeling. Most people who are empathic have little or no control over it and its very frightening to be out in public because a public outing can turn into sensory overload. Most people who are empathic dont know they are and dont know what to do about it. If Im going to go out in public, I put up whats called a "shield". Basically its a mental barrier between yourself and the outside world. Its maintained untill you take it down or it crumbles on its own and it basically helps you to deal with the onrush of sensation. The drawback is that a shield does tend to leave you a bit physically drained or tired.

1)Consult a psychiatrist, not a therapist, not a psychologist, not a preacher, but an M.D. Tell them the truth and ask their opinion on the events as you remember them.

Quite simply, I cant. I dont trust doctors. Not one bit, I punched a doctor for getting too close to me last time I was at the doctors. The environment makes me nervous, the doctors themselves are just...**Shudders**

2)Under no circumstances should you take any hallucinogenic drugs, including E.

Hadnt planned on it, but thanks.

I have one question: do you have a history of mental illness in your family?

Not so far as I know

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Something that is closer to your situation I have seen myself. A friend of mine took her pagan boyfriend to a Christian hangout. During the intense worship time, he was NOT AT ALL COMFORTABLE and smoked outside for about an hour.

Thats not unusual. You would feel just as uncomfortable at a Pagan ritual. It probably has more to do with unfamiliarity and differences than spiritual ties

 

[Sketcher]

Thats not unusual. You would feel just as uncomfortable at a Pagan ritual. It probably has more to do with unfamiliarity and differences than spiritual ties

I would just as uncomfortable at a pagan ritual, but I believe spiritual ties would still be the key here. I would know there would be heavy demonic activity there and they would probably be resisting whatever purpose I would have had there. You see it as a mere mental thing, I see it as spiritual warfare.

 

[I <3 Abraham]

I dont think so, Ive had a panic attack before, this felt nothing like a panic attack

Possibly, allthough I really dont have a problem with open spaces, or closed spaces for that matter. Id merrily crawl down a ventilator shaft or skip across a huge open field, it doesnt bother me. PEOPLE on the other hand, I dont like being around people. If its a MASSIVE crowd then Im a bit more comfortable.

An empath is someone who can pick up on the emotions and feelings of the people around them. Its being able to actually FEEL what other people are feeling. Most people who are empathic have little or no control over it and its very frightening to be out in public because a public outing can turn into sensory overload. Most people who are empathic dont know they are and dont know what to do about it. If Im going to go out in public, I put up whats called a "shield". Basically its a mental barrier between yourself and the outside world. Its maintained untill you take it down or it crumbles on its own and it basically helps you to deal with the onrush of sensation. The drawback is that a shield does tend to leave you a bit physically drained or tired.

Quite simply, I cant. I dont trust doctors. Not one bit, I punched a doctor for getting too close to me last time I was at the doctors. The environment makes me nervous, the doctors themselves are just...**Shudders**

Hadnt planned on it, but thanks.

Not so far as I know

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Thats not unusual. You would feel just as uncomfortable at a Pagan ritual. It probably has more to do with unfamiliarity and differences than spiritual ties[/font]

Agorophobia manifests itself in both of those ways, I'm not sure in what way they are linked mentally but they occur together enough that they have been given one name. Hey, nobody said psychiatry was an exact science.

About empathy, I understood what you meant before you explained it. The feeling that you describe, I believe, are signs that you have a mental disorder. The shield that you employ is a coping mechanism and a destructive one at that. The ability to overcome fears and phobias comes from within and the reason why it leaves you become tired is becuase you are focusing attention on it rather than allowing your tumultuous emotional environment take up your attention, this will naturally be draining. You may think of this as some sort of gift, but the more you indulge yourself in believing you have this extrasensory perception, the more real this psychosis will become for you and the more difficult it will be to eliminate later in life.


About your feelings toward doctors. This is also very troubling for me to hear and should be unearthed for what it is. Try thinking of it this way, if your statement was the one below, what do you think would be motivating it?

Quite simply, I cant. I dont trust black people. Not one bit, I punched a black person for getting too close to me last time I was at one of their houses. The environment makes me nervous, the people themselves are just...**Shudders**

Doctors are people too. Find a reputable psychiatrist, if they give you the willies, tell them that and ask for a list of other doctors they would recommend. If you are honest and straightforward, doctors will understand. If the psychiatrist is at all skilled then they will know a doctor that would be a better fit for you.


About your experience at the church. You yourself called the thread "Church Panic". A panic attack doesn't only mean overwhelming panic in response to a specific trauma. It simply means fear (a clinical term) or emotional discomfort that is accompanied by certain physiological signs (increased heart-rate, quickened breathing are a couple manifestations). Terror is simply panic with more significant physiological manifestation. The fact that this occured without a specific trigger should worry you rather than make you chalk it up to spirits.

Please please please, find a doctor.

 

[Alecto]

[qupte]About empathy, I understood what you meant before you explained it. The feeling that you describe, I believe, are signs that you have a mental disorder. The shield that you employ is a coping mechanism and a destructive one at that. The ability to overcome fears and phobias comes from within and the reason why it leaves you become tired is becuase you are focusing attention on it rather than allowing your tumultuous emotional environment take up your attention, this will naturally be draining. You may think of this as some sort of gift, but the more you indulge yourself in believing you have this extrasensory perception, the more real this psychosis will become for you and the more difficult it will be to eliminate later in life.[/quote] Can you call an article of someone's faith a mental disorder?

About your feelings toward doctors. This is also very troubling for me to hear and should be unearthed for what it is. Try thinking of it this way, if your statement was the one below, what do you think would be motivating it?

I dont know, Im colorblind. I make no distinction between races or colors. I cant put myself in a racist frame of mind because I simply cant get my mind around disliking someone else for being a different race.

I just....REALLY dont like doctors. Its probably because the environment of thier office is so sterile, so...devoid of life. Im used to having life all around me, then I walk into a hospital or an office and its like being inside a steel box.

The fact that this occured without a specific trigger should worry you rather than make you chalk it up to spirits.

And it mysteriously went away after I got outside and held the two things in my life that I am concrete on

Please please please, find a doctor.

I dont trust doctors, plain and simple.

 

[sincerebliss]

Okay, let me say that I know everything your talking about when you mention Shielding. I was Pagan before, too and I did shield a bit. I had a triple Goddess necklace and I prayed to the God and Goddess, though, I never picked a specific God/Goddess like many. I had an altar, all the works. Let me tell you, interesting things started to happen and I believed. For about three years, I strongly believed in their presence. I didn't think the Christian God existed and when people would write posts like the one I'm writing to you, I thought, "Gosh, they are so ignorant. They don't know anything." You know, "those" kind of thoughts. I still have about 15-20 books on Paganism and Witchcraft. Not to mention the tarot cards. It brought bad things and I, like you, didn't believe in demons either until I started having nightmares about them. I had my first nightmare when I was thinking about going to a Christian church. I went with my friend and felt VERY uncomfortable the first time. I hated it! Gosh, let me tell you. They're real and nothing to mess with. When I was younger I had an encounter that most people don't even believe. It's easy to look for logical solutions, but there are things out there beyond logic. God is real and the experiences I have had with him have been excellent and beyond comprehension compared to what I had previously felt with my God and Goddess. Gosh, I feel "weird" writing this. Okay, I'm going to get off of here. Just think about what I'm saying, please.

Alicia

 

[Alecto]

Ill take your books and cards off your hands if they make you uncomfortable (That offer was made in all sincerity)

You have to understand, I had the exact opposite experience with Christianity. It just felt...cold, empty. Nothing to it, like it was...dead I guess is the best word. Then when I came to Paganism, it felt so full of life and so warm and comforting, like a blanket fresh out of the dryer on a cold night. Being Christian felt like taking a cold shower when it was 20 below outside

 

[I <3 Abraham]

Ill take your books and cards off your hands if they make you uncomfortable (That offer was made in all sincerity)

You have to understand, I had the exact opposite experience with Christianity. It just felt...cold, empty. Nothing to it, like it was...dead I guess is the best word. Then when I came to Paganism, it felt so full of life and so warm and comforting, like a blanket fresh out of the dryer on a cold night. Being Christian felt like taking a cold shower when it was 20 below outside

I'm gonna say my peace and drop it, I don't want to insult you.

My girlfriend was a pagan, she studied with the most influential pagan in the country, I forget her name. She eventually left it for theological reasons, mostly that she found the creation myth to be uninspired and overly anthropomorphic. All theology aside, I would say the same thing to you that I would a charismatic pentacostal who felt they were saved from demons by Jesus Christ; I would and will and am saying that you probably have a mental disorder. Demons and spirits do not exist and no mainstream religion in the world believes that God or the devil acts directly in the world. Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Islam, all of them recognize that the supernatural does not just "happen to people".

I think that it is nice that you are aware of your sorroundings. The line between the gift of awareness of your sorroundings and a mental disorder stemming from an emotional inability to deal with your mental faculties is when you cannot control the way that you feel in normal, everyday situations. The fact that you actually hit a doctor (don't you find that frightening? Aren't you ever worried about what ELSE you might do because of these feelings?) just because his office was CLEAN: the fact that you had to physically leave a building because of how it made you feel. You may think that people can't control emotions, that emotions just ARE. This is not true. A person cannot control the presence or absence of a certain emotion but a healthy person can control the intensity of that emotion, or at least control their behavior when emotionally unsettled.

You are already unable to control your feelings or your actions to a reasonable degree of civility because of your mental problems. NOWHERE will you find a rational pagan that will tell you it's alright to hit a doctor because they got too close to you, that's not an article of faith, it's psychosis. That is a doctor's job and you went into their office, not the other way around... You actually hurt and wronged that person and I don't think you even care. Once you realize that your actions can be hurtful and that you have no real control, I hope you will think about my advice again. Once again, this is not a matter of what you consider to be articles of your faith. Once again I would counsel a Christian to do the same things. Religion ought to be about personal fulfillment, learning who and what you are in creation: when you make your religion into some sort of spiritual pepper-spray, you are hurting yourself and the religion you adhere to. I'll keep checking in on this thread but that is all I have to say. I wish you the best of health and I hope you take my advice.

Out of universal love
-Johannes de Silentio

 

[indagroove]

Wow. Some spirit was uprising.


When my wife and I were looking for a place to hold our wedding reception. We were going to rent the hall at our area Mason's lodge. About 4 minutes after we were inside, my wife says, something's not right, I need to see upstairs. So we walked into the main lodge area where the meetings are held. My wife turned and ran outside. I'm like, what's up? SO I went outside and before I opened my mouth, my wife said, "Oh NO, I am never going back in there. There is something bad in there."

Still spooks me when I recall that day.

 

[Alecto]

The line between the gift of awareness of your sorroundings and a mental disorder stemming from an emotional inability to deal with your mental faculties is when you cannot control the way that you feel in normal, everyday situations.

Ok......

(don't you find that frightening? Aren't you ever worried about what ELSE you might do because of these feelings?)

Not especially, since I dont have those feelings for most other people and if I do, its for a good reason

The fact that you actually hit a doctor just because his office was CLEAN: the fact that you had to physically leave a building because of how it made you feel.

And this is so unique....how? I know plenty of people who get shaky when they go into a doctors office. A good friend of mine actually dis-armed a doctor who was trying to give her a shot and stabbed him in the shoulder with his own needle. Atleast my doctor just got away with a bruise.

You may think that people can't control emotions, that emotions just ARE. This is not true. A person cannot control the presence or absence of a certain emotion but a healthy person can control the intensity of that emotion, or at least control their behavior when emotionally unsettled.

To a certain extent, I agree with you. But the power of certain emotions and emotional responses is ENORMOUS, there are reports of women flipping cars over and moving objects that they would NEVER have been able to move because thier child was in danger. People during states of extreme emotion have been SHOT and not responded.

You are already unable to control your feelings or your actions to a reasonable degree of civility because of your mental problems.

And where do you gather this? Youve heard of two instances where something happend.

NOWHERE will you find a rational pagan that will tell you it's alright to hit a doctor because they got too close to you, that's not an article of faith, it's psychosis.

Nowhere did I CLAIM it was an article of faith, someone else suggested that my belief that I am an empath is the result of some mental problems and I replied that empathy, or the ability to sense ambient emotional feedback, is actually a part of my faith.

That is a doctor's job and you went into their office, not the other way around

Thats true

You actually hurt and wronged that person and I don't think you even care

No, I really dont. Its not something that keeps me up at night. I appologized to him and we both laughed it off.

Once you realize that your actions can be hurtful and that you have no real control, I hope you will think about my advice again

Thank you Dr Phil but I CAN survive in regular life, you are basing your diagnosis off of two incidents.

when you make your religion into some sort of spiritual pepper-spray, you are hurting yourself and the religion you adhere to.

You never pray to God for protection or strength?

 

[talitha]

Demons and spirits do not exist and no mainstream religion in the world believes that God or the devil acts directly in the world. Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Islam, all of them recognize that the supernatural does not just "happen to people".

Just wanted to insert this comment -- I am not an expert in all of those religions, but Christianity should not be included there. People who believe what the Bible says do recognize the reality of the "supernatural," meaning demons and/or spirits. I have been directly accosted and threatened by evil spirits on two separate occasions; both times my breath was severely effected. You can believe it or not believe it, but do not say that Christians don't recognize the reality.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alecto,

I know that many Christian groups have extracted the life right out of Christianity (hmmm...... if I am a Christian, don't I believe that He IS the life? yikes), mostly those who "recognize that the supernatural does not just "happen to people"." I find those groups as cold and lifeless as you do, I'm sure. But since I have made the acquaintence of Jesus, I realize that it is distance from His presence that has caused this lifelessness.

blessings on you
tal

 

[Alecto]

Its not the groups I find cold, its God himself. He feels...cold and impersonal.

 

[Sketcher]

After He Himself decended into this pit of a world and suffered unjust death to make it possible for people to be with Him?

 

[Alecto]

After He Himself decended into this pit of a world and suffered unjust death to make it possible for people to be with Him?

I dont care what he did, my experiences with God have been cold and impersonal, Ive found bank tellers that were friendlier than God felt

 

[Sketcher]

Hmm. Our God is a personal God, so I'm afraid you missed out on something big time. There's still hope for you though.

 

[Alecto]

Hmm. Our God is a personal God, so I'm afraid you missed out on something big time. There's still hope for you though.

Oh goodie

 

[Lostangel8807]

I feel the same as Alecto

 

[ALIOSIAS]

Mabe it is a sign that you should receive the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. He is your only real shield against demon attack.