Chrstianity and Science - how?

[pat34lee]

I would love to get simply yes/no answers on these 4 questions to get some insight in how Christians view science.

1- Do Christians believe the universe has existed for 13 billion years?
2- Do Christians believe the Big Bang happened, and was the beginning of everything within the universe?
3- Do Christians believe that earth has existed for 4.5 billion years?
4- Do Christians believe neanderthals were living on earth 500,000 years ago?

Answering for me and most YEC.
I cannot speak for other Christians.

1- No.
2- No.
3- No.
4- No.

Y/N answers don't help much without
explanations, do they?

 

[pat34lee]

I think science and the Bible correctly interpreted match up. The world is billions of years old, and it is already there in Genesis, but put into a state of disorder, flooded. And I cannot decide on Neanderthals.

I won't argue here about the age, but
Neanderthals are just another race of
man that has either been wiped out or
crossbred into other races.

 

[pat34lee]

This is a very important point. I believe it is exclusively in the United States that the findings of mainstream science are viewed with suspicion. The fact that Donald Trump can claim that global warming is a myth manufactured by the Chinese and still be taken seriously is evidence if this.

I don't think the Chinese are the source
of the global warming hoax, but they are
definitely going to profit from it, along with
Al Gore and his cronies. It seems the only
losers will be the industrial nations who lead
the world today, with the USA standing to lose
the most.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

the global warming hoax

Ummmmm... did you really just post that???

 

[JacksBratt]

I don't think the Chinese are the source
of the global warming hoax, but they are
definitely going to profit from it, along with
Al Gore and his cronies. It seems the only
losers will be the industrial nations who lead
the world today, with the USA standing to lose
the most.

And Canada. In Ontario our electrical rates have increased from 3.5 cents per KWh for non peak hours to 8.7 cents.
On peak prices went from 10.5 cents per KWh to 18.0 in ten years.

Many people are now choosing between paying their electricty bill or feeding their kids.

Also we are paying 20 cents less per litre of gas at the pumps $1.30 cents per liter before, now $1.09 while the price per barrel has gone from close to or a bit more than $100.00 per barrel down to $40.00.

All this due to a farce about climate change....

Anyone remember the 70's and 80's when we were going to run out of fossil fuel before the turn of the century?????

Ya, I believe the scientists......NOT

 

[YouAreAwesome]

farce about climate change

?

Wow.

 

[thesunisout]

I would love to get simply yes/no answers on these 4 questions to get some insight in how Christians view science.

Do Christians believe the universe has existed for 13 billion years?
Do Christians believe the Big Bang happened, and was the beginning of everything within the universe?
Do Christians believe that earth has existed for 4.5 billion years?
Do Christians believe neanderthals were living on earth 500,000 years ago?

Hi Jordan,

There are diverse opinions within the church about these questions. They are not a salvation issue, though. Christians tend to believe that scientific inquiry is a legitimate way to study the world, but it mostly won't yield truths about the things which God has done. It wouldn't tell you, for instance, how God created the world; it is only measuring the world that we see here today. However, the scripture tells us that God originally created a perfect world without sin. It was a much different world before sin entered the picture, and science cannot access that. That is why we need faith, because many of the things that God does are things we cannot measure with our physical senses or scientific instruments. Without God telling us through His word, we wouldn't know we are sinners in need of a Savior, and that He sent that Savior to die for our sins.

I can give you logical arguments and proofs for some things that the scripture talks about, but not everything. God doesn't intend for us to be able to prove everything; He is actually the one who backs up the scripture with His personal revelation to each person. It sounds to me like you're getting some kind of revelation from Him that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior. I recommend that you read the gospel of John and pray every time before you read it that God would help you understand it and that He would use it to reveal Jesus Christ to you as Lord and Savior.

If you have any particular questions, please don't hesitate to message me. I have studied many of these things in depth. God bless!

 

[pat34lee]

Ummmmm... did you really just post that???

Of course I did. You do know why they
changed the name from global cooling,
don't you? Because they can attribute
anything to climate change: Warmer,
colder, wetter, dryer, hurricanes, etc.

If you would like some facts on the myth
or hoax, whichever term you prefer, we
can open another thread just for that.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Um, ladies and gentlemen, we are bunny trailing off the subject here. This is not an official mod hat, since I posted in this thread as a member, but we still need to remember the Statement of Purpose for Exploring Christianity. Those who wish to discuss global warming should do so in another thread. Let's stick to the questions the OP asked.

 

[stephen583]

"Science without religion is lame, and religion without science is blind". [Albert Einstein]

Einstein was arguably one of the smartest guys who ever lived, and I agree completely with this statement. I'm one of those rare Christians who believe there are no contradictions between the Bible and science, only seeming contradictions caused by misinterpretation.

"But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: Or speak to the earth , and it shall teach thee".. Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this ?" (Job 12:7-9, KJV).

In this verse the Bible establishes the science of anthropology and archeology. The study of creatures (living and dead), and their remains, fossils and artifacts found in the earth. The same principles are repeated in the NT in Romans 1:20.

"For since the creation of the world, the invisible things of God have been clearly seen.. being understood through WHAT HAS BEEN MADE" (Romans 1:20).

This verse describes the fundamental principle of fact being established by scientific "observation". Scientifically speaking, If something is real and it exists, even invisible forces like gravity, then it can be "observed". Establishing scientific theory through observation of the natural world is a basic principle of science.

So there really is no conflict between science and the Bible, because they are both saying the exact same thing. Thank you Albert Einstein.

 

[stephen583]

What about the Big Bang ? Let's take a look at the Genesis account (Genesis 1:2).

"And the earth was without form and void"..

Obviously "earth without form" would be talking about matter on a sub-atomic level.

"And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters".

What is one of the "faces" of water ? H20 (it's scientific molecular designation). One part Hydrogen, two parts Oxygen.

What happens when an atom of Hydrogen is moved upon (split)by some force ? A tremendous amount of energy is released, isn't it ? Energy in the form of what ?

"And God said, "Let there be light" (Genesis 1:3).

That's right, the scientific theory of atomic fission and the Big Bang are mentioned right there in the first three verses of the Bible.

I wonder if Robert Oppenhiemer (father of the atom bomb) ever read the Bible ? J. Robert Oppenhiemer, born April 22nd 1904 into a wealthy New York Jewish family (Wikipedia). I'd say at some point it's very likely he at least glanced over Genesis 1.

 

[stephen583]

Now what about Neanderthals ? Did God create some kind of "human" creature before he created homo sapien, sapien (modern man) ? The descendants of Adam, what theologians would call "Adamic man". What does the Bible say about mans' creation in the image of God ?

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and REPLENISH the earth".. (Genesis 1:28).

I emphasized the word "Replenish" because most Christians just casually skip past that word and ignore its' existence in the text completely. But there it is, staring you in the face in black and white. The word "replenish" is defined by Merriam Webster as "replacing something that has been diminished".. Think about that for a minute. What exactly was God "replacing" that had been "diminished" ?

Anthropology and archeology tell us Neanderthals never did fill the earth in numbers anything like those of modern man. No remains of Neanderthals have been discovered anywhere except in Europe. In other words, from a scientific standpoint, they weren't exactly "fruitful" nor did they dominate the earth.

In fact, by the time modern man appeared, Neanderthals were already almost extinct.. existing only in tiny numbers in caves along the western coast of Spain. This is where the last remains of their dying species would be found by archeologists.

So the remains of Neanderthals and the appearance of modern man (who replenished the human species), represents no contradiction between science and religion at all. They are both saying exactly the same thing.

 

[JacksBratt]

?

Wow.

I am not denying the the climate changes. I'm saying that it is not possible for man to change it. I'm saying that CO2 is the buzz word and object of farce science. I'm saying that what controls the climate is the amount of sunlight we get combined with the amount of wind and it's affect on our main and only heat regulator, the oceans. Combined with, to some extent large bodies of fresh water.

The surface of our globe is 71% water. Much of this is deep water. The Pacific ocean makes up 30% of the earths surface alone.

Anyone trying to tell me that a gas that makes up 0.040% of the entire atmosphere is going to overtake the climate effect of 71% of the total global surface. Not to mention the total mass of the atmosphere is 5.1 x 10(18) kg and the total mass of all the water is 1.4 x 10(21) kg, and the fact that water will remove heat from anything at a rate 25 times that of air......anyone trying to tell me that...thinks I'm gullible, naive, unintelligent and cannot think for myself.

Please use the common sense that God has given you. It is physically impossible.

I also must note. That if CO2 is this huge and catastrophic enemy of our climate... then go plant some trees and save the world.

 

[juvenissun]

I would love to get simply yes/no answers on these 4 questions to get some insight in how Christians view science.

Do Christians believe the universe has existed for 13 billion years?
Do Christians believe the Big Bang happened, and was the beginning of everything within the universe?
Do Christians believe that earth has existed for 4.5 billion years?
Do Christians believe neanderthals were living on earth 500,000 years ago?

Not good questions. Because the answer is both yes and no.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Well, if you are in the majority, it only proves that truth is not determined by democracy.

The creator had all the necessary ability to create the universe and everything in it, exactly how it is described in the literal Genesis

Non issue.

Each day is, purposefully and explicitly, bracketed by "there was evening, there was morning, the "X" day.

Yes, the use of days is the framing device used in the first creation story.

That says it all. If you cannot take that as a specific detail then how can you take the John 3:16 or any other pivotal scripture at face value.

Non-sequitur.

Why in the world of truth would God rely on billions of years of mutation and chance genetic alteration to create His most precious creation, Man, or any of the other wondrous creatures of this world?

Who says God relies on anything?

Occam's razor accepts the most simple and direct answer. Evolution is far from that. Genesis satisfies Occam's razor and is well withing the ability of God. There is no way I am going to believe the speculations of men over the direct word of God.

That's nice.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[hedrick]

[I'm basing this on a rather long article on Neaderthals in Wikipedia.]

It appears that Neaderthals were not just in Europe, but in much of Asia. Not in Africa, however.

It also seems that they and modern humans developed in parallel from common ancestors, and existed at the same time (though to some extent in different areas).

There's reason to think that limited interbreeding occurred. Indeed there's some controversy over whether to consider them a separate species or not.

It's not clear why they became extinct. There are many theories. However it seems that they become extinct in Europe after modern humans arrived, not before. There's even a theory that they were absorbed into the larger modern human population (though it doesn't sound like this is the most likely scenario). Another is that they were wiped out by interaction with modern humans. Not necessarily war; it could have been that modern humans coming from Africa brought diseases against which they had no immunity.

I'm not sure quite what Neaderthals have to do with this discussion though.

 

[Straightshot]

Here is your answer jordan

The Lord's orignal creation is billions of years old .... perhaps an measurable amount of time [Genesis 1:1] .... and the original creation was created in perfection instantaneously

.... all was spoken into existence immediately, no evolution [Job 38:1-7]

However, the introduction of humans came about 6000 years ago according to the Genesis genealogical record

The Lord moved to recondition the earth for supporting life forms to replace those of the pre-admite earth, including humans made in His image

The previous life forms were destroyed by His judgment against Satan and those angels who rebelled against Him [2 Peter 3]

Look at all of the other planets in the earth's solar system and beyond .... all bear the scars of the pre-adamite judgment and none have supporting environments for life to exist on them

 

[Mobezom]

I'm unsure whether I'm a Christian or not, and if I am I'm certainly on the iffy-figurative side, but I can at least answer for my family and Christian friends, with whom I have often discussed science.

Many Christians I know would answer "Yes" to all four questions, except perhaps Question 2 - the "beginning of everything within the universe" would seem to exclude the possibility of God creating something.

 

[ViaCrucis]

except perhaps Question 2 - the "beginning of everything within the universe" would seem to exclude the possibility of God creating something.

Not really. What is typically described as the big bang (really, the sudden and rapid expansion of the very early universe) doesn't exclude divine activity.

There is a common modern notion that natural processes and divine activity stand as some sort of antithesis to one another, that is a naturalistic explanation or a natural process means the absence of God. That's really a pretty modern way of thinking and doesn't really jive with the biblical perspective or more historic and traditional Christian ways of thinking.

I often like to take the example of reproduction and conception, because most Christians will readily accept the statement that God created us in our mother's womb. Yet, we know exactly how sexual reproduction works, how conception and embryonic development works; the entire process is described in purely and entirely naturalistic language and does not demand that we bring God in to explain the process. But that naturalistic explanation doesn't take God out of the process; it's not an either-or issue. Sexual reproduction, conception, and embryonic development is an entirely natural process, and it is correct to say that God formed us in our mother's womb.

Natural processes and divine activity are not separate things; God's activity and power is exercised in and through the universe by the natural processes. So we can have an accurate, naturalistic understanding of physics while also confessing that "in Him all things all things hold together" (Colossians 1:17).

God, in Christianity, is not a distant cosmic clock-maker; He is the Author and Sustainer of all creation. When science provides naturalistic explanations for how the universe works, this does not remove God from His place as the sovereign Lord over all things, but instead explains the creation which He has made and explains how He has established it, and through which His glory is given witness, "The heavens declare the glory of God..." writes the Psalmist.

The big bang, therefore, isn't the exclusion of divine power and providence, it is fully subsumed within it.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[klutedavid]

I would love to get simply yes/no answers on these 4 questions to get some insight in how Christians view science.

Do Christians believe the universe has existed for 13 billion years?
Do Christians believe the Big Bang happened, and was the beginning of everything within the universe?
Do Christians believe that earth has existed for 4.5 billion years?
Do Christians believe neanderthals were living on earth 500,000 years ago?

Hello JC.

An interesting set of questions.

Do Christians believe the universe has existed for 13 billion years?

The age of the universe is not a doctrinal issue, hence, Christians can accept or reject any age of the universe. No one really knows how old the universe is, not without making assumptions.

Do Christians believe the Big Bang happened, and was the beginning of everything within the universe?

Once again, scientific theories have nothing to do with Christianity, scientific theories are not doctrinal issues.

There is evidence that a Big Bang happened according to science.
It remains a theory in science, yet the initial event, has never been observed. One can accept or reject the theory, based on the scientific evidence. Personally, life is to short to bother wasting time on so many scientific theories.

Do Christians believe that earth has existed for 4.5 billion years?

The age of the earth is irrelevant to salvation by Grace.

Do Christians believe neanderthals were living on earth 500,000 years ago?

Sounds like monkey business, yet again, this has nothing to do with Christianity.