Chrstianity and Science - how?

Inkfingers · Nov 5, 2016

jordanconnect said:
I would love to get simply yes/no answers on these 4 questions to get some insight in how Christians view science.

Do Christians believe the universe has existed for 13 billion years?
Do Christians believe the Big Bang happened, and was the beginning of everything within the universe?
Do Christians believe that earth has existed for 4.5 billion years?
Do Christians believe neanderthals were living on earth 500,000 years ago?

No, no, yes, and yes.

I say no and no to the first two questions because existence itself cannot have a beginning; because for that to happen there must have been non-existence, which can neither exist (as to do so would be self contradictory) nor create anything (as that would deny cause and effect). The universe has always been here although it may undergo big-bang like events occasionally, and God shapes it all.

GoldenKingGaze · Nov 5, 2016

I think science and the Bible correctly interpreted match up. The world is billions of years old, and it is already there in Genesis, but put into a state of disorder, flooded. And I cannot decide on Neanderthals.

truefiction1 · Nov 5, 2016

I believe all that science stuff.

-57 · Nov 5, 2016

jordanconnect said:
I would love to get simply yes/no answers on these 4 questions to get some insight in how Christians view science.

Do Christians believe the universe has existed for 13 billion years?
Do Christians believe the Big Bang happened, and was the beginning of everything within the universe?
Do Christians believe that earth has existed for 4.5 billion years?
Do Christians believe neanderthals were living on earth 500,000 years ago?

Late joiner but here's what I believe.
Do Christians believe the universe has existed for 13 billion years?

There is that possibility which explains why we see the light from distant stars....my answer YES

Do Christians believe the Big Bang happened, and was the beginning of everything within the universe?

The big bang contradicts scripture and should not be placed over what the bible teaches...my answer NO

Do Christians believe that earth has existed for 4.5 billion years?

This old earth belief also contradicts scripture....my answer NO

Do Christians believe neanderthals were living on earth 500,000 years ago?

The bible is very clear that mankind didn't evolve...my answer NO.

-57 · Nov 5, 2016

LovebirdsFlying said:
The Creation stories, then, I would say can be open to a number of explanations. It's possible God did everything in six literal 24-hour days, and somehow made it appear otherwise. He's powerful enough to do that, and we don't always understand His ways. It's also possible, based on other passages in the Bible, that "day" doesn't necessarily mean a period of 24 hours. We don't always mean it that way ourselves, such as when we say, "Back in my day, things were like this or that." We don't mean 24 hours. We mean an indefinite period of time, but we say "day."

And that's just my opinion.

Concerning the days..I've heard this numerous of times as christians try to support and old earth...BUT...each day is bracketed with evening and morning...and we clearly understand the timing of evening and morning. It represents just what it indicates. 1 day. NOT a long time period. Even the Ten Commandments back up the day = 24 hours time period.

-57 · Nov 5, 2016

ChristianFromKazakhstan said:
I'm a Christian. I do hold all of the ideas you mentioned as possibilities. Things aren't so simple as 1-2-3 though. Science evolves too. Maybe in 1000 years, the understanding would be quite different from today? We should not take today's ideas as cast in stone forever. But most definitely as a real possibility.

Well put.
I find it dangerous to filter the unchanging Word of God through mans fallible science.

-57 · Nov 5, 2016

DingDing said:
Answer to question 1: time is relative. In other words, though I believe all parts of the universe were created at the same time, the lapse of time from the creation has likely been anything but uniform across the universe. If this hurts your head, don't worry, it hurts mine too.

True. Time is reative and is slowed down by gravity. That is a clock on the beach will run slower than a clock on the space station. You can watch this video which shows how the universe can be old yet the earth young.

JacksBratt · Nov 5, 2016

In time, science would catch up with reality. We know so very little about scientific phenomenon that the more we learn the more we understand that we know so very little.

Man is very arrogant of his knowledge and will stand firm on his own understanding instead of the rock solid truth of the Biblical word. This is a huge mistake.

I truly believe that anything that is discovered by scientists today, that confirms the biblical account, and disproves the scientific benchmarks, will have a small chance, if any, of being accepted.

-57 · Nov 5, 2016

JacksBratt said:
In time, science would catch up with reality. We know so very little about scientific phenomenon that the more we learn the more we understand that we know so very little.

Man is very arrogant of his knowledge and will stand firm on his own understanding instead of the rock solid truth of the Biblical word. This is a huge mistake.

I truly believe that anything that is discovered by scientists today, that confirms the biblical account, and disproves the scientific benchmarks, will have a small chance, if any, of being accepted.

The more we undertand DNA and the code within the code...we'll realize there is a God.

But I say that considering this...John 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Unless God grants people the ability to realize ..and draws them..they will never believe. Despite ALL of the evidence presented to them.

expos4ever · Nov 5, 2016

TX_Matt said:
Most Christians throughout the world believe all of these things, there are some, pretty much all located in the United States, that do not.

This is a very important point. I believe it is exclusively in the United States that the findings of mainstream science are viewed with suspicion. The fact that Donald Trump can claim that global warming is a myth manufactured by the Chinese and still be taken seriously is evidence if this.

expos4ever · Nov 5, 2016

jordanconnect said:
Do Christians believe the universe has existed for 13 billion years?

I certainly do. Why? Am I able to evaluate the evidence myself? Of course not! And neither is anyone else posting here! I believe it because the scientific enterprise has a robust methodology, rigorous standards, and a solid track record. To believe otherwise - that scientists are all conspiring to spread lies or are all incompetent - beggars credulity.

jordanconnect said:
Do Christians believe the Big Bang happened, and was the beginning of everything within the universe?

I do - see above.

jordanconnect said:
Do Christians believe that earth has existed for 4.5 billion years?

I do - see above.

jordanconnect said:
Do Christians believe neanderthals were living on earth 500,000 years ago?

I do - see above.

~Anastasia~ · Nov 5, 2016

expos4ever said:
Am I able to evaluate the evidence myself? Of course not!

Pity. It's rather an eye-opening exercise.

Jim Langston · Nov 5, 2016

jordanconnect said:
I would love to get simply yes/no answers on these 4 questions to get some insight in how Christians view science.

Do Christians believe the universe has existed for 13 billion years?
Do Christians believe the Big Bang happened, and was the beginning of everything within the universe?
Do Christians believe that earth has existed for 4.5 billion years?
Do Christians believe neanderthals were living on earth 500,000 years ago?

Different Christians believe different things. These are my beliefs:

Do <you> believe the universe has existed for 13 billion years?

No, I am a young earth creationist, that is, I believe the universe was created around 6000 years ago. To complicate things somethings were created old. I.E. The book of Enoch teaches that when God created plants an "era" came forth.

Do <you> believe the Big Bang happened, and was the beginning of everything within the universe?

I believe the Big Bang was described in Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. So, Yes, I believe in the Big Bang as explained in Genesis.

Do <you> believe that earth has existed for 4.5 billion years?

No, I believe the earth has existed for around 6000 years.

Do <you> believe neanderthals were living on earth 500,000 years ago?

No, I believe neanderthals were living on earth the same time man was within 6000 years ago.

ViaCrucis · Nov 5, 2016

hedrick said:
Fine. But in that case we'd have to talk about theistic physics and theistic chemistry. My concern is that using that term may suggest to people that evolution as a model isn't enough to explain the origin of species, and God had to intervene to fix things up. That's not the case.

I believe in divine providence. That implies that the specific ways things develop are as he wants. But I think in most cases that occurs in accordance with natural law.

I think the term "theistic evolution" exists largely due to unfortunate necessity. Because it really only means the same sort of thing as "theistic chemistry" or "theistic gravitation". It is an unfortunate necessity because we live in a time where there is a large cultural narrative that paints religion and science in opposition, a narrative largely centered on the theory of evolution and fought between certain religious proponents of young earth creationism and non-religious science accepting folks. Those of us who are religious and accept the science, even though we're quite likely the majority, are frequently ignored in that narrative. So using the term "theistic evolution" seems to exist largely as a pre-emptive defense against the accusation of atheism from some of our fellow religionists.

Ideally I shouldn't have to say I embrace theistic evolution, I should be able to just say I accept the theory of evolution in the same way that I accept germ theory, or the theory of general relativity; but the politicization of evolution and its forced controversial nature in a particular cultural narrative necessitates explaining oneself.

-CryptoLutheran

Jadis40 · Nov 5, 2016

jordanconnect said:
I would love to get simply yes/no answers on these 4 questions to get some insight in how Christians view science.

Do Christians believe the universe has existed for 13 billion years?

Yes.

Do Christians believe the Big Bang happened, and was the beginning of everything within the universe?

I believe that the evidence points towards the big bang.

Do Christians believe that earth has existed for 4.5 billion years?

I certainly do.

Do Christians believe neanderthals were living on earth 500,000 years ago?

I don't see why not. Or, at least it was some hominid or predecessor to modern humans. Maybe even contemporary for a span of time, and co-existed for a while.

For me, it comes down to the fact I believe the study of the earth and the universe points overwhelmingly to the fact the earth has been here longer than the 6,000 years given by the YEC's.

hedrick · Nov 5, 2016

ViaCrucis said:
I think the term "theistic evolution" exists largely due to unfortunate necessity. Because it really only means the same sort of thing as "theistic chemistry" or "theistic gravitation". It is an unfortunate necessity because we live in a time where there is a large cultural narrative that paints religion and science in opposition, a narrative largely centered on the theory of evolution and fought between certain religious proponents of young earth creationism and non-religious science accepting folks.

Maybe. But I'm concerned that this language still endorses that conflict. It suggests that we don't accept ordinary scientific understanding, but have some kind of special Christian version.

anonymous person · Nov 5, 2016

Inkfingers said:
No, no, yes, and yes.

I say no and no to the first two questions because existence itself cannot have a beginning; because for that to happen there must have been non-existence, which can neither exist (as to do so would be self contradictory) nor create anything (as that would deny cause and effect). The universe has always been here although it may undergo big-bang like events occasionally, and God shapes it all.

God has no beginning and He created the universe. This meshes well with the hypothesis that it has not always been here, as Genesis, philosophical arguments, and scientific evidence affirm.

JacksBratt · Nov 5, 2016

ViaCrucis said:
I think the term "theistic evolution" exists largely due to unfortunate necessity. Because it really only means the same sort of thing as "theistic chemistry" or "theistic gravitation". It is an unfortunate necessity because we live in a time where there is a large cultural narrative that paints religion and science in opposition, a narrative largely centered on the theory of evolution and fought between certain religious proponents of young earth creationism and non-religious science accepting folks. Those of us who are religious and accept the science, even though we're quite likely the majority, are frequently ignored in that narrative. So using the term "theistic evolution" seems to exist largely as a pre-emptive defense against the accusation of atheism from some of our fellow religionists.

Ideally I shouldn't have to say I embrace theistic evolution, I should be able to just say I accept the theory of evolution in the same way that I accept germ theory, or the theory of general relativity; but the politicization of evolution and its forced controversial nature in a particular cultural narrative necessitates explaining oneself.

-CryptoLutheran

Well, if you are in the majority, it only proves that truth is not determined by democracy.

The creator had all the necessary ability to create the universe and everything in it, exactly how it is described in the literal Genesis.

Each day is, purposefully and explicitly, bracketed by "there was evening, there was morning, the "X" day.

That says it all. If you cannot take that as a specific detail then how can you take the John 3:16 or any other pivotal scripture at face value.

Why in the world of truth would God rely on billions of years of mutation and chance genetic alteration to create His most precious creation, Man, or any of the other wondrous creatures of this world?

Occam's razor accepts the most simple and direct answer. Evolution is far from that. Genesis satisfies Occam's razor and is well withing the ability of God. There is no way I am going to believe the speculations of men over the direct word of God.

paul becke · Nov 5, 2016

2PhiloVoid said:
In general, 'yes' to all four questions (although the time at which Neanderthals lived is under discussion).

[ So, yes, it is possible to respect science and still have faith in God too. ]

I agree with your replies, but have to chuckle at your rather diffident concluding words : 'So, yes, it is possible to respect science and still have faith in God, too.

Here is why :

http://www.uncommondescent.com/inte...al-debate-science-depend-on-the-supernatural/

But here is another excellent post concerning the non-local (beyond space and time) implications of quantum mechanics :

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/chrstianity-and-science-how.7974205/

In his OP, the author, Scordova points out the latter very economically in this particular paragraph, describing matter as illusory and being, rather, of the nature of thought.

'In his Gifford lectures, very shortly after the 1925 discovery of quantum mechanics, Arthur Stanley Eddington (who immediately quantum mechanics was discovered realized that this meant that the universe was purely mental, and that indeed there was no such thing as “physical”) said “it is difficult for the matter-of-fact physicist to accept the view that the substratum of everything is of mental character.” What an understatement! On this fundamental topic, physicists are mostly terrified wimps.'

JacksBratt · Nov 5, 2016

expos4ever said:
This is a very important point. I believe it is exclusively in the United States that the findings of mainstream science are viewed with suspicion. The fact that Donald Trump can claim that global warming is a myth manufactured by the Chinese and still be taken seriously is evidence if this.

Donald Trump is exposing "global warming" AH I mean "climate change" for what it is.
Of course, the best way to make a statement that is truthful yet goes against the masses, is to label the person uneducated, unintelligent, conspiracy theorist, naive, or any other derogatory term.

Firstly, they are way way off the prediction of the state of the global climate and condition of the polar ice caps from the original scare mongering reports.

Secondly, they were caught emailing each other as to how they were going to explain the fact that the numbers don't fit the scaremongering model.

Third, CO2 makes up 0.040% of the atmosphere, There is no possible way that this small amount of a GAS can compete with the absolute magnitude of the surface water on this planet, that actually controls the weather for the entire globe. Not to mention that the proposed cause of all the, predicted yet not seen carnage, was a raise from 0.038% to 0.040%. Are you kidding me?

So, I agree with Trump. Not that it is just the Chinese, however. It is ALL the governments that agreed to the ridiculous conditions at the latest summit on this hoax.
They have a license to print money and millions of sheeple falling for it.

Remember, for years we all thought that lemmings ran, in herds of little furry rodent masses, off cliffs to their deaths.

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