sure pal... then show me its "un-reasonable" nature... come on... you can do it
in the mean time... take care
FOW
in the mean time... take care
FOW
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I didn't accuse you of copy/pasting.
...and it shows little evidence of original thought.
There's nothing to evade.
You haven't even presented a reasonable argument yet.
Originally posted by Jedi
I'd like to add to this, too. All those "Jesus isn't God" people have always failed to respond to these points.
Jesus himself claimed to be Yahweh. He prayed, "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began" (John 17:5). But Yahweh of the Old Testament said, "I will not give my glory to another" (Isaiah 42:8).
Originally posted by Jedi
Jesus also declared, "I am the first and the last" (Revelation 1:17)-precisely the words used by Jehovah in Isaiah 42:8. Jesus said, "I am the good shepherd" (John 10:11), but the Old Testament said, "Yahweh is my shepherd" (Psalms 23:1). Further, Jesus claimed to be the judge of all people (Matthew 25:31f; John 5:27), but Joel quotes Jehovah as saying, "for there I will sit to judge all the nations on every side" (Joel 3:12). Likewise, Jesus spoke of himself as the "bridegroom" (Matthew 25:1) while the Old Testament identifies Jehovah in this way (Isaiah 62:5; Hosea 2:16). While the Psalmist declares, "The Lord is my light" (Psalms 27:1), Jesus said, "I am the light of the world" (John 8:12).
Originally posted by Jedi
Another claim Jesus made to be Yahweh is in John 8:58, where he says, "Before Abraham was, I am." This statement claims not only existence before Abraham, but equality with the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14. The Jews around him clearly understood his meaning and picked up stones to kill him for blaspheming (cf. John 8:58, and 10:31-33). The same claim is made in Mark 14:62 and John 18:5-6.
Originally posted by Jedi
The Old Testament forbids worshiping anyone other than God (Exodus 20:1-4; Deuteronomy 5:6-9). The New Testament agrees, showing that humans refused worship (Acts 14:15), as did angels (Revelation 22:8-9). But Jesus accepted worship on numerous occasions, showing he claimed to be God. A healed leper worshiped him (Matthew 8:2), a group of Canaanite women (Matthew 15:25), the mother of James and John (Matthew 20:20), the Gerasene demoniac (Mark 5:6), all worshiped Jesus without a word of rebuke. The disciples worshiped him after his resurrection (Matthew 28:17). This could only be allowed by a person who seriously considered himself to be God. Not only did Jesus accept this worship due to God alone without rebuking those who gave it, but he even commended those who acknowledged his deity (John 20:29, Matthew 16:17).
Originally posted by Jedi
This is also not to mention very clear verses where Jesus is flat out addressed as God in such examples as
Titus 2:13, and Hebrews 1:8. [/B]
Then the thoughts are much more likely to be original than what was copied and pasted by Lightbearer.
I had to think of a response for each part I quoted. It's not like I have some book right next to me telling me how to respond to each and every comment made by those who reject Christ as God.
Begging the question - you have yet to show how.
I've given evidences I haven't seen anyone else here give, and yet, somehow, those who reject the deity of Christ fail to respond to them 100% of the time. Curious.
Begging the question again. Merely saying "No, it isn't so!" is less than convincing, and doesn't address anything.
I have seen a lot of 'pride' displayed on the part of the Christadelphians in this discussion.
Plural Name: "Elohim" is the third word of the Hebrew Scriptures: In the beginning "Elohim" - "God" (Genesis 1:1). Elohim comes from a root that means "strength, might, or power." "Elohim" is the most common word for "God" and is used over 2300 times in the Scriptures. "Elohim" is plural and can be literally translated as "gods." Exodus 12:12 refers to "all the elohim (gods) of Egypt." "Eloah" is the singular form of "Elohim," but it is used much less frequently - only 250 times.
This plural name
that is applied to the One God is a hint of the plural/singular nature of God that is more fully revealed in the rest of the Scriptures.
Plural Verbs: Normally the plural name "Elohim" is followed by a singular verb.
But there are several fascinating instances when "Elohim" is accompanied by a plural verb. Genesis 20:13 literally says in Hebrew that Elohim (God) they caused me to wander from my father's house... And in Genesis 35:7 Elohim (God) they appeared to him. 2 Samuel 7:23 says: What nation on the earth is like Your people Israel, whom Elohim they went to redeem for Himself.Psalm 58:11 declares that surely there is a God they judge the earth.
Plural Pronouns: There are times when plural pronouns are used to describe the One God.
The Lord God, speaking in Genesis 1:26 says: Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness.
(See also Genesis 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8 for other instances of plural pronouns that refer to God).
Plural Nouns: There are several intriguing occurrences where plural nouns refer to the one God: The LORD... He is a holy God [literally holy Gods] (Joshua 24:19). Remember your Creator [literally Creators] in the days of your youth (Ec. 12:1). Let Israel rejoice in his Maker [literally Makers] (Psalm 149:2). For your Maker [literally Makers] is your husband [literally husbands] (Isaiah 54:5).
Plural Descriptions: In the Tenach there are mysterious plural descriptions of the Three-in-One God. King David writes: The Lord (Adonai) says to my Lord: sit at my right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet (Psalm 110:1).
Psalm 45:6-7 records this: Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness, therefore God, Your God has anointed You with the oil of joy more than Your fellows. The apostle to the Messianic Jews applies this passage to Messiah, declaring that Yeshua[Jesus] is God, and that His Father is God (see Hebrews 1:8-9).
In Genesis 1:1-3 God (Elohim, which is a plural), the Spirit of God and the Word of God (and God said...), are all involved in the creation of the universe.
In Isaiah 48 One speaks who calls Himself the first and the last, and the One who founded the earth. He goes on to say that from the first I have not spoken in secret, from the time it took place I was there. And now the Lord God has sent Me, and His Spirit (Isaiah 48:12-16). The Creator who is speaking claims to have been sent by the Lord God and His Spirit!