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Christ's Deity

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by fieldsofwind, Dec 3, 2002.

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  1. fieldsofwind

    fieldsofwind Well-Known Member


    October 31, 1982
    I. Explicit references that affirm the deity of Christ.
    A. Jn.1:1 "In the beginning was (imperf. eivmi, eimi) the Word, and the Word was with God (separate person) and the Word was God"; cf. Jn.1:14 "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."
    B. Jn.20:28 "Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and My God!'" (Jesus did not rebuke; see vs.29 for what He did say.)
    C. Rom.9:5 "and from whom (Israel) is the Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen."
    D. Phil.2:6 "Who although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality (acc.neut.pl. of i;soj, isos: equal things, i.e., attributes) with God a thing to be grasped."
    E. Ti.2:13 "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus."
    II. Deity inferred from His eternal preexistence.
    A. Jn.8:58 "Jesus said to them (Jews) 'Verily, verily, I say to you, before Abraham came to be (literal translation of aor.dep.infin. of ginoma,i ginomai) I am (pres.act.inf. eivmi,, eimi).'"
    B. Micah.5:2: a Messianic prophecy of Christ's birth at Bethlehem and destiny as ruler declares of Him "His goings forth are from long ago, from the days of eternity" (Hebrew ~l'A[ ymeymi mime' olam; cf. Ps.90:2; Prov.8:22,23; Jn.1:1).
    C. Isa.9:6 is another prophecy of Christ's birth. He is called "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."
    D. Jn.1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
    E. Col.1:16,17 after stating that all things were created through Him and for Him comes the expression "And He is before all things".
    F. Rev.1:8 "'I am the Alpha and Omega,' says the Lord God, 'who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.'"
    G. Eph.1:4 is associated with the divine decrees "chose us in Him before the foundation of the world."
    H. Jd.25 "to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen."
    III. Additional evidences of His pre-incarnate existence (which supports His deity).
    A. Jn.3:13 "And no one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, even the Son of Man."
    B. Jn.3:31 "He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all."
    C. Jn.6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will but the will of Him who sent Me."
    D. Jn.17:5 "With the glory which I always had with You before the world was" (cf. Jn.17:24).
    E. Other verses: Jn.1:15,30; 6:33,42,50,51,58,62; 7:29; 8:23,42; 9:36; Eph.1:35; 1Pet.1:1820. Most references to His preexistence are in the gospel that deals with His deity.
    IV. The ascription of divine attributes to Him is conclusive proof of deity (Col.2:9 "For in Him all the fullness [plhrw,ma, pleroma] of Deity dwells [katoike,w katoikeo: dwell permanently] in bodily form").
    A. Sovereignty (Mt.28:18 "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me"; Rom.9:5 "Who is over all"; 1Pet.3:22; Jn.3:27 "And He gave Him authority to execute judgment because He is the Son of Man"; Act.2:36; 1Cor.12:3; Phil.2:9,10; Col.1:18; 1Pet.3:22; Rev.1:5,6 "Ruler of Kings of the earth...to Him...the glory and dominion forever and ever"; Rev.17:14 and 19:16 call Him "King of kings and Lord of lords").
    B. Eternal Life (Isa.9:6; Micah.5:2; Jn.1:1; 8:58; Col.1:17; Rev.1:8; 22:13).
    C. Righteousness and Justice (Jer.23:5,6; Lk.1:35 "holy offspring"; Act.3:14 "The Holy and Righteous One"; Heb.7:26 "holy of His priesthood"; Rev.3:7 "He who is holy").
    D. Love (Jn.13:1,34; 1Jn.3:16; cf. Jn.3:16).
    E. Omniscience (Jn.2:24,25 "He Himself knew what was in man"; Jn.16:30 "We know that you know all things"; Jn.6:64 "But there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him"; Jn.13:11; Mt.9:4 "And Jesus knowing their thoughts/hearts said, 'Why are you thinking evil?'"; 1Cor.4:5 "Until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts"; Rev.2:23 "I am He who searches the minds and hearts").
    F. Omnipresence (Ps.139:7-10; Deut.4:39; Prov.15:13; Isa.66:1; Jer.23:24; Act.17:27; Mt.28:20 "I am with you always"; Mt.18:20 "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst"; Jn.3:13).
    G. Omnipotence (Mt.8:25, calmed the storm; Jn.10:18 "No one has taken it from Me"; Phil.3:21 "Who (the Lord Jesus Christ, see vs.20) will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself"; Heb.7:25 "He is able to save forever those who draw near to God through Him"; 2Tim.1:12 "I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day"; Jd.24 "Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to make you stand in the presence of His glory irreprehensible with great joy"; Rev.1:8 "The Almighty").
    H. Immutability (Heb.13:8 "Jesus Christ the same yesterday and today and forever"; Heb.1:1012; cf. Ps.102:25-27; 1Jn.1:9).
    I. Veracity (Jn.14:2 "If it were not so, I would have told you"; 14:6 "I am the way and the truth and the life"; Rev.3:7 "He...who is true").
    V. His deity is affirmed in trinity passages (Mt.28:19; 2Cor.13:14; 1Pet.1:2).
    VI. His deity is required, since He is said to perform the tasks of deity.
    A. Creation (Jn.1:3 "All things came into being through Him; and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being"; Jn.1:10 "The world was made through Him"; Col.1:16 "For by Him all things were created in the heavens and on the earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities - all things have been created through Him and for Him"; Heb.1:2 "Whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the world"; Heb.1:10 "You, Lord, in the beginning did lay the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of Your hands"; cf. Gen.1:1).
    B. Providence (Lk.10:22 "All things have been handed over to Me by My Father"; Jn.3:35 "The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand"; Jn.17:2 "Even as You have given Him authority over all mankind, that to all You have given Him, He may give eternal life"; Eph.1:22 "And He put all things in subjection under His feet and granted Him as head over all things to the church"; Col.1:17 "And by Him all things hold together"; Heb.1:3 "and upholds all things by the word of His power"; Rev.1:5 "ruler of the Kings of the earth").
    C. Forgiveness of sins (Mt.9:27; Mk.2:710 "Who can forgive sins but God alone?"; Col.3:13; 1Jn.1:9).
    D. Resurrection and judge (Mt.25:31,32; Jn.5:19-29; Act.10:42; 17:31; Phil.3:21; 2Tim.4:3).
    E. Dissolve and recreate the universe (Heb.1:10-12; Rev.20:11; cf. 21:5 "Behold I make all things new").
    VII. Christ possesses the titles of deity.
    A. Yaweh, hw"hy> translated kurios in the New Testament (Zech.12:10b;cf. Rev.1:7; Ps.68:18; cf. Eph.4:8-10; Ps.102:12; cf. Heb.1:10,11; Isa.6:5; cf. Jn.12:41; Jer.23:5,6; cf. 1Cor.1:30; Mt.3:1; cf. Mt.12:6; 21:12,13 [Lord of the temple]; Mt.12:8 [Lord of the Sabbath]).
    B. Adonai, ynIdoa] translated kurio,j (kurios) in the NT (Ps.110:1; cf. Mt.22:44 and Mk.12:36; Lk.10:43; Act.2:34,35; Heb.1:13; 10:13 [the NT equivalent is kurios]).
    C. Elohim, ~yhil{a/ translated Qeo,j (Theos) in the NT. In Isa.40:3, Christ is spoken of as both Yaweh and Elohim (cf. Lk.3:6).
    VIII. The title "Son of God" and Christ's deity.
    A. It is used of men and angels (Rom.8:14,19; cf. Job.2:1).
    B. It is used of Christ in a unique way, as seen in the term "only begotten" (monogenh,j monogenes; Jn.1:14,18; 3:16,18; 1Jn.4:9; cf. Lk.7:12 "only son"; 8:42 "only daughter"; 9:38 "only child"; Heb.11:17, "offered up his only begotten son"; Christ is God's only uniquely begotten Son).
    C. The above is explained in a threefold application under the title "firstborn", prwto,tokoj, prototokos (background: primogeniture).
    1. To teach the doctrine of eternal generation (Col.1:15 "And He is the firstborn of all creation"; Heb.1:6 "And when He again brings the firstborn into the world").
    2. To read His humanity into the doctrine (Mt.1:25; Lk.2:7 "She gave birth to her firstborn son").
    3. To further read His glorified humanity into the doctrine (Ps.2:7 "He said to me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You'"; cf. Rom.8:29 "That He might be the firstborn among many brothers"; Col.1:18 "The firstborn from the dead; so that He Himself might come to have first place in everything"; Rev.1:5 "The firstborn from the dead").
    4. Summary: as eternal God the Son, He has always been the firstborn. Via the virgin birth, His humanity became firstborn in hypostasis, and at His resurrection His glorified hypostasis achieved firstborn status.
    IX. The Angel of Yaweh identification proves His deity.
    A. The Angel of Yaweh (Gen.16:7-13, esp. vs.13; cf. Gen.22:15-18; 31:11-13; 48:15,16; Ex.3:1ff; 14:19; Judg.6:11-23; 13:920).
    B. The Angel of Yaweh is distinguished from Yaweh (Gen.24:7,40; Ex.23:20; 32:34; Num.20:16; Judg.2:15; 1Chr.21:15-18; Isa.63:9; Dan.3:25-28; Zech.1:12,13).
    C. The Angel of Yaweh is the second person of the Godhead.
    1. He is the visible God of the Old Testament (OT).
    2. He no longer appears after the incarnation.
    3. God sent both.
    4. Christ is called Yaweh in NT quotations of OT passages, (translated kurios, see point VII.A.).
    X. Other OT theophanies of the second person of the Godhead.
    A. The burning bush (Ex.3:2), where He became known as the "I am" (Qal.perf. and Qal.imperf. of hy"h'), hayah; Greek, cf. eivmi, eimi, reflected in the "I Am's" of John's gospel (Jn.6:35 "I am the bread of life"; 8:12" I am the light of the world"; 10:9 "I am the door"; 10:11 "I am the good shepherd"; 11:25" I am the resurrection and the life"; 14:6 "I am the way and the truth and the life"; 15:1,5 "I am the vine").
    B. The pillar of cloud and fire (Ex.13:21; 14:19; 23:20-23; 32:34; 33:2; Num.20:16; Isa.63:9).
    C. A man (Gen.18:1-33 [to Abraham]; 32:24-32 [to Jacob]; cf. Hos.12:4).
    XI. Observations on those who deny it.
    A. They are called Antichrists (1Jn.2:22 "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son"; 1Jn.4:3 "and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the (spirit) of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now is already in the world"; cf. 1Jn.2:18 "and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen").
    B. It is the basis for eternal condemnation (1Jn.5:12 "He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life").
    C. It is a characteristic of cults (Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Christian Scientists, Armstrongism, etc.).
    D. It is prophesied of liberalism (2Pet.2:1 "Who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves"; cf. Jd.4).
    XII. The Lord taught it (Jn.10:30 "I and the Father are one"; vs.31 "And the Jews took up stones again to stone Him").
  2. fieldsofwind

    fieldsofwind Well-Known Member

    Or... http://acharlie.tripod.com/bible_study/ho_theos.html

    The Title " Ho Theos " is comprised of two Greek words. Ho meaning, " the " and Theos meaning, " God ". The use of the title is only a small part in the scriptural evidence proving that Jesus is God and that the Godhead is Triune in Nature. Obviously, these two words will appear in various places of New Testament. The Gospel writers all used the TITLE, " ho theos " to refer to the One, True God, as did the writers of the Epistles. There are places in the New Testament, where the word ho is followed by the word theos and they are not being used as a title. The context of where the words appear determines if it is meant to be a title, or not. This is a clearly evident fact to all, but those who attempt to deny that Jesus is God, Jehovah, and also those who attempt to deny the Triune Nature of the Godhead, Trinity. They like to point to 2Co 4:4, as proof that ho theos does not signify Almighty God.
    "-in whom the (ho) god (theos) of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving ones, so that the light of the glorious gospel of Christ (who is the image of God) should not dawn on them. "
    Completely ignoring the structure of the verse, they point out that in this verse ho and theos do not mean Almighty God, which is correct. However it is undeniably clear from the grammatical and sentence structure, that they are not being used as a title. The title in this case is "god of this world"; not, "The God." Much the same as Mat 22:32,
    "I am the (ho) God (theos) of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."
    where the titles are, "God of Abraham", "God of Isaac", & "God of Jacob."
    That the TITLE " Ho Theos ", refers only to Jehovah God is proved by New Testament. There are a large number of verses, which evidence this fact, A few of them follow.
    "And Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God (ho theos)! "
    John 20:28
    Clearly, ho theos, is being used as a title. The verse would make no sense translated as, "My Lord and My the God!" For an in-depth look at this verse and its true meaning visit John 20:28.
    Here are a few more of the many verses, which show ho theos used as the title for Almighty God. I won't belabor the point by addressing each verse for I am sure that you can grasp that translating ho theos in these verses as the God would make no sense.
    "-You shall worship the Lord your God (ho theos), and Him only you shall serve." "
    Mat 4:10
    "Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God (ho theos) with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. "
    Mat 22:37
    "-and you shall love the Lord your God (ho theos) with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength. This is the first commandment. "
    Mark 12:30
    "And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? (which being translated is, My God, My God (ho theos), why did You forsake Me?)"
    Mark 15:34
    "And he shall turn many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God (ho theos)."
    Luke 1:16 "
    But my God (ho theos) shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus."
    Phi 4:19
    "-for also, 'Our God (ho theos)is a consuming fire. "
    (Hebrews 12:29)
    As I said at the beginning, the application of the title, " ho theos " forms only a very small part of the biblical evidence that Jesus is Jehovah God and that the Godhead is Triune in Nature. The word " the " followed immediately by the word " God(god) " appears only 40 times in Literal Translations of the New Testament. 39 of which refer to the One True God. The only exception is 2Co 4:4. The Greek word " ho " followed immediately by the word " theos " appears upwards of 950 times in the original manuscripts, with the exception of 2Co 4:4, they are used to indicate Jehovah God. The intent & teachings of the God-inspired authors is quite clear. Those who cite 2Co 4:4 as proof that the title does not mean Almighty God are grasping at straws and ignoring the message of Holy Scripture.
  3. fieldsofwind

    fieldsofwind Well-Known Member

    Or... (By Phil Johnson

    Jesus is called Jehovah
    At this point the well-trained Jehovah's Witness would want to make a distinction between the word Adonai, which is translated "Lord" in most English Bibles, and the Word Jehovah (or Yahweh), also translated "Lord" in most English Bibles. If you want to tell the difference between the words in most translations, when the original is Adonai, the word "Lord" will appear in capital and lowercase letters; when the Hebrew word is Jehovah, the word "LORD" will appear in capital and small capital letters.
    Let's suppose our hypothetical Jehovah's Witness points out that in all the verses I have cited so far, the word Adonai has been employed, not Jehovah. Since the Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jehovah is the one true name of God, any passages that apply the term Jehovah to Christ would conclusively destroy their entire theology. Are there any such verses?
    There certainly are. Psalm 23:1, for example, says, "Jehovah is my shepherd." Jesus very clearly applied this passage to Himself in John 10:11, 14 when He said, "I am the good shepherd." And the writer of Hebrews also applied this passage to Christ in Hebrews 13:20, when he wrote, "The God of peace . . . brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord"— Jesus our Jehovah.
    In Isaiah 6:5, when Isaiah saw his vision of heaven, with the Lord high and lifted up, he said, "Woe is me, for I am ruined! Because I am a man of unclean lips, And I live among a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord [Jehovah] of hosts." Yet the apostle John, referring to this same incident, writes that Isaiah saw Christ's glory, "and he spoke of Him" (Jn. 12:41).
    In the famous prophecy of John the Baptist found in Isaiah 40:3, Jesus is called Jehovah: "A voice is calling, 'Clear the way for [Jehovah] in the wilderness; make smooth in the desert a highway for our God."
    And in Jeremiah 23:5-6, a very crucial text for the doctrine of justification by faith. This verse introduces a new name for God, Jehovah Tsidkenu, "Jehovah our righteousness." Notice to whom it is applied: "Behold, the days are coming," declares [Jehovah], "When I shall raise up for David a righteous Branch; and He will reign as king and act wisely And do justice and righteousness in the land. [This is very clearly a messianic prophecy.] In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell securely; and this is His name by which He will be called, '[Jehovah] our righteousness'" (Jer. 23:5-6).
    Here's a very familiar passage, Joel 2:32: "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of [Jehovah] Will be [saved]." Both Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13 quote that passage, applying the title Jehovah to Christ.
    The simple fact is that Jehovah's Witnesses do not witness to the true Jehovah of Scripture. They reject His own witness and the witness of His Word that Christ Himself is Jehovah who came to earth in human flesh.
    3. Titles reserved for Jehovah are applied to Christ
    In Isaiah 10:20, we find the expression, "Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel." The Holy one is said to be no less than Jehovah Himself. And in Acts 3:13-4, Peter tells the men of Jerusalem, "You delivered up [Jesus], and disowned in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him. You disowned the Holy and Righteous One."
    In Isaiah 44:6 we read, "Thus says [Jehovah], the King of Israel and his Redeemer, [Jehovah Sabaoth]: 'I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me." That verse in and of itself offers strong proof for the Trinity, because it differentiates between Jehovah and His Redeemer Jehovah. But it also reserves for Jehovah God this expression "the first and the last." That title surfaces again in Revelation 1:8, where it is again applied to Jehovah: "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." No question about who owns that title. Notice, too that it is a title that can hardly be shared with any created being: the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the One who is and who was and who is to come, the almighty. Yet at the end of the book of Revelation we read these words again, this time spoken by Jesus Christ: "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end" (Rev. 22:13).
    In Isaiah 43:11, God speaks: "I, even I, am Jehovah; and there is no savior besides Me." Did you realize the title "Savior" is reserved in Scripture for God? This verse says so in the plainest possible terms. "I am Jehovah; and there is no savior besides Me." That is why Paul, writing to Titus, did not shrink from applying the name God and the word Savior both to Jesus Christ. Titus 2:11-13 says this:
    For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.

    Zechariah 12:10 includes a most interesting prophecy. In context, this is Jehovah speaking. Verse 4 tells us so. Then verse 10 says, "I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him, like the bitter weeping over a first- born." Who was the One who was pierced? It was Christ. And John 19:37 specifically applies this text to Christ.
    Deuteronomy 10:17 says, "[Jehovah] your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God." Yet Revelation 17:14 applies the title "Lord of Lords" to the lamb, Jesus Christ: "These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful."
    4. Jesus possesses all the incommunicable attributes of God
    Christ is eternal, as we noted in Micah 5:2, and in His titles, "the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
    He is omnipresent. In Matthew 18:20, He said, "Where two or three have gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst"; and in Matthew 28:20, He promised, "Lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
    He is omniscient. On the night Christ was betrayed, the disciples told Him, "Now we know that You know all things, and have no need for anyone to question You; by this we believe that You came from God" (Jn. 16:30). Later, Peter appealed to Christ's omniscience in his own defense, John 21:17: "Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, 'Do you love Me?' And he said to Him, 'Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.'" In Revelation 2:23 Christ describes Himself in these terms: "I am He who searches the minds and hearts.
    He is omnipotent. Philippians 3:21 says He "will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself." Hebrews 1:3 says He "upholds all things by the word of His power."
    He is immutable, unchanging. This attribute could never be true of any created being. Yet Hebrews 1:10-12 says, speaking of Christ,
    Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of Thy hands; they will perish, but Thou remainest; And they all will become old as a garment, and as a mantle Thou wilt roll them up; As a garment they will also be changed. But Thou art the same, And Thy years will not come to an end.

    Hebrews 13:8 is a familiar affirmation of the immutability of Christ: "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, yes and forever."
    In summary, Scripture says Christ embodies every attribute that is true of Jehovah, Colossians 2:9: "For in Him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form." And Hebrews 1:3 says Christ "is the radiance of [Jehovah's] glory and the exact representation of His nature. Jesus is Jehovah God.
  4. fieldsofwind

    fieldsofwind Well-Known Member

    Continued by Phil Johnson:

    5. Jesus does the works of God
    Jesus does works that God alone can do. For example, Christ created "all things." John 1:3 says, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." If that is true, then He himself could not be a created being.
    Colossians 1:16 says the same thing in more detail, ruling out the possibility He could be any kind of archangel: "For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created by Him and for Him." Verse 17 takes it a step further and pictures Him not only as Creator but also as Sustainer: "And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together."
    He oversees the operation of divine providence. In John 17:2, Christ prays to the Father, "Even as Thou gavest [the Son] authority over all mankind, that to all whom Thou hast given Him, He may give eternal life. Ephesians 1:22 echoes that: "And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church."
    He forgives sin. This was a huge controversy in Jesus' earthly ministry. Matt 9:2-7 and Mark 2:5-10 give the accounts of how the Pharisees were offended that He forgave sins. In Mark 2:7 they ask, "Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?" They understood clearly the implications of His authority.
    He has the power to raise the dead and judge final judgment. In John 5:22, Jesus said, "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son." That is a very explicit claim of deity, and in verse 24, Jesus even makes the basis of judgment the issue of whether someone hears His word or not. Acts 10:42 says Christ "has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead." Acts 17:31 says the same thing. 2 Timothy 4:1 says "Christ Jesus . . . is to judge the living and the dead."
    It is He who will bring us into the fullness of glorification. Philippians 3:21 says He "will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory." In Revelation 21:5 He says, "Behold, I am making all things new."
    6. Jesus receives worship.

    Jesus Himself in Matthew 4:10 said told the Devil, "Begone, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.'" If Jesus Himself were only a creature, He would have been guilty of hypocrisy, for He himself received worship. Not once did Jesus ever rebuke anyone for worshiping Him. Never did He refuse anyone's worship. In fact, He corrected those who scolded others for worshiping Him, as in John 10, when Martha was angry that Mary sat at His feet. And in Matthew 26, He rebuked the disciples for being indignant that a woman had anointed Him with expensive ointment.
    Listen carefully to these verses, and remember that in every case Jesus welcomed the worship that was offered to Him:
    · Matthew 14:33—"And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, 'You are certainly God's Son!'"
    · John 9:38—"And [the man born blind] said, 'Lord, I believe.' And he worshiped Him."
    · Matthew 28:9—"And behold, Jesus met them and [greeted the women coming from His tomb]. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him."
    · Matthew 28:17-18—"And when [the eleven disciples] saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, 'All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.'"
    · John 20:28-29—"Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and my God!' [Now listen to Jesus' response to Thomas' calling Him God:] Jesus said to him, 'Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.'"

    Contrast Jesus' response to worship with Peter's response when "Cornelius met him, and fell at his feet and worshiped him" (Acts 10:25). Verse 26 says, "Peter raised him up, saying, 'Stand up; I too am just a man.'" Acts 14:11-18 tells of a similar episode in Paul's ministry, when he and Barnabas refused the worship of an entire crowd. Then in Revelation 19:10 and 22:8-9, we have angels refusing worship from the Apostle John. In 22:9 the angel says, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book; worship God."
    Scripture explicitly states that the Son is to be worshiped. John 5:22-23 says, "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, in order that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him." Jesus placed Himself on the highest possible level when He made Himself an object of our faith, John 14:1: "Let not your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me."
    You want ultimate proof that Jesus is not an angel? Hebrews 1:6 says that when the Father brought the Son into the world, He said, "And let all the angels of God worship Him."
    Let's move on to the two final lines of argument that prove Jesus is God. I have saved the strongest for last. For if Jesus is God, you would expect the Bible to say so in the strongest of terms. And in fact it does.
  5. fieldsofwind

    fieldsofwind Well-Known Member

    Continued by Phil Johnson:

    7. The Bible says Jesus is God.

    John 1 is a favorite text of the Jehovah's Witnesses. The people who come to your door are thoroughly trained in how to respond if you show them John 1:1. Turn to that passage and let's look at the first three verses:
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

    This is a very strong statement on the deity of Christ. Every phrase is significant. "In the beginning" harks back to Genesis 1:1 and sets the beginning of John's gospel in eternity past, before anything or anyone was created. B. B. Warfield wrote,
    What is declared is that "in the beginning"—not "from the beginning" but "in the beginning,"—when first things came to be, the Word, not came into being, so that He might be the first of those things which came into being, but already was. Absolute eternity of being is asserted for the Word in as precise and strong language as absolute eternity of being can be asserted. The Word antedates the beginning of things; He already was.1

    The next phrase, "the Word was with God," only strengthens the assertion of deity in this passage. It means that from all eternity, the Word coexisted with God, alongside Him, in personal inter-communion with Him. In Warfield's words, "He has been from all eternity God's Fellow."2
    This eternal relationship between God and the Word is underscored by a phrase in John 1:18, "the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father . . . ." Jesus Christ was eternally in the bosom of the Father, somehow distinct from God yet at the same time identical to Him. By the way, the New American Standard translation in v. 18 is accurate; in the Greek, the literal wording is, "the only-begotten God"—another straightforward proof of Christ's deity. The whole principle of the Trinity is wrapped up in this expression, "the Word was with God."
    But let's return to the third phrase in John 1:1, for this is the part Jehovah's Witnesses feel they can answer: "The Word was God." That is precisely and literally what this text says in the Greek. A well-trained JW will attempt to convince you that our translation is faulty. In the Greek, they will tell you, the word God lacks any definite article (quite right). Therefore, they say, an indefinite article must be supplied: "The Word was a God." That is bad Greek and totally unwarranted. Was is what is known as a copulative verb. You may have called it a "linking verb" in grammar school. It simply connects the noun on one side with the noun on the other The Word was God. "God" in that sentence is a predicate nominative. It can only be translated the way you find it in most Bibles: "The word was God." To insert the word "a" is both bad Greek and bad grammar.
    Jehovah's Witnesses have produced their own Bible with their own translation. And they have a handful of Greek scholars who have tried desperately to defend this translation. But what these JW "scholars" do not tell their own people is that there are dozens of places in their Bible where they are forced by common sense to violate the very rule they want to try to impose on John 1:1. I'll give you two examples from this very same context. If we followed the JW construction and added the word "a" every time the definite article is missing, here's how a couple of other verses from John 1 would read:
    · v. 6 There came a man, sent from [a] God, whose name was John.
    · v. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of [a] God, even to those who believe in His name.
    So John 1:1 is the achilles' heel of the Jehovah's Witnesses' theology, and that is why every JW is taught what to say when it is brought up. But their answers are not at all satisfying to anyone who knows the smallest amount of Greek grammar, and their denial of Christ's deity is easily debunked merely by the context of this verse. You needn't be shaken by the JW arguments on this.
    Of course, there are more verses in the New Testament that explicitly call Jesus God. Remember, as we saw earlier, that when Thomas exclaimed, "My Lord and My God," Jesus did not rebuke him, but commended him for his faith (Jn. 20:29).
    Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 refer to Jesus as "Our God and Savior." Romans 9:5 says He is over all God, blessed forever. Philippians 2:6 says He existed from all eternity in the form of God. And 1 John 5:20 says, "We know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding, in order that we might know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life."
    One of the best verses to challenge JWs with is Hebrews 1:8, because even in their Bibles, it is a very clear declaration of Jesus' deity. This quotes God the Father, who is speaking to the Son: "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever."
    8. Jesus Himself claims to be God.
    Finally, if Jesus is God, we might expect Him to say so. Have you ever wondered why He didn't simply state, "I am God?" and put an end to any possibility of confusion?
    Actually, He did. What He says in John 8:58 was to His Jewish audience a far more explicit statement than if He had merely said "I am God." It is important to see this passage in its context. In verse 53, we see that the Pharisees were becoming uncomfortable with Jesus' claims, beginning to suspect that He was putting Himself on a level of authority no mere man would have any right to. They said:
    53 "Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?"
    54 Jesus answered, "If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God';
    55 and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I shall be a liar like you, but I do know Him, and keep His word.
    56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
    57 The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
    58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
    59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple.
    Notice that these men understood precisely what Jesus was saying. And because He obviously also understood what they were asking, His reply is all that much more significant. He was telling them He was God, using the name Jehovah Himself had revealed to Moses at the burning bush, "I AM." He could have made no stronger claim of deity. If that had not been His meaning, if he were claiming only to be the firstborn angel, He would have said, "before Abraham was born, I was."
    The gospel of John includes a whole series of statements Jesus made about Himself using this name "I AM"—I am the way, the truth, and the life (Jn. 14:6); I am the good shepherd; I am the door; I am the bread of life; I am the light of the world. Each one of these statements, studied in context, reveals that He was making claim after claim of absolute deity.
    The biblical evidence for the deity of Christ is conclusive. It is overwhelming, irrefutable evidence. In fact, what we have covered here is only a representative sample. I haven't even mentioned John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." That, and many other similar passages could be adduced to prove even more conclusively that according to Scripture, He is God.
    So much evidence cannot be swept aside or ignored. You either believe it, or you condemn yourself to an unthinkable eternity. In fact, Jesus said, "Unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins" (Jn. 8:24). There Jesus holds forth His "I am"—without a predicate—as the object of our faith. He is very obviously setting Himself in the place of God, and He can do that only because He is God. Those who know that Scripture is the Word of God can only believe, and join in the worship of Him at whose name every knee shall bow.

    1. B. B. Warfield, Faith and Life (Edinburgh: Banner of Truth, 1990 reprint), 87.
    2. Ibid., 89.

    Phil Johnson
  6. fieldsofwind

    fieldsofwind Well-Known Member

    Now... evangelion... enjoy.

    remember... if you want to simply debate the scripture as God has seen fit to have it for us... then I would much rather do that. However, since you love quoting "scholars"... I thought that I would return the favor.

    take care

  7. Jedi

    Jedi Knight

    Responding to a verse or two doesn't cut it. There's still an entire mountain to climb. Looking at a few of the rocks is nothing.

    I think it's pretty clear he's already made up his mind. :)

    By the way, good job (again), fieldsofwind.
  8. Arnold_Philips

    Arnold_Philips what

    In Relationship
    A veritable goldmine, FOW!
  9. Higher Truth

    Higher Truth Active Member


    On the 'Name' as you probably know, in 1901 some 'scholars' wanted to figure out how to pronounce the 'Tetragrammation' [YHVH] Since the Jewish Scholars did not speak the name, they decided that they would go at it themselves. Because the Jewish Scribes did not speak the Name, nor did they feel that others should, the vowels that went between the consonants were not written. Later on the vowels for the word Adonai were put below YHVH. What the 'scholars of the 1900's did was take the vowels from Adonai, put them with the consonants YHVH. In translation the Y can become a J so they ended up with Jehovah, which was probably not accurate. Now, the latter day 'scholars' have come up with Yahweh .
    How accurate is it? I don't believe that anyone really knows.Listed below are some of the 'other' renderings that the 'experts' have come up with.

    Yahweh Yahwah Yaveh Yaweh Jehova Jahova Jahovah Yahova Yahovah Jahowa Jahowah Yahavah Jahavah Yahowe Yahoweh Jahaveh Jahaweh Yahaveh Yahaweh Jahuweh Yahuweh Iahueh Jahuwah Yahuwah Yahu Jahu Yahvah Jahvah Jahve Jahveh Yahve Yahwe Yaohu Yahway Yaohu Yahvah Yahuwah Iahueh Yahuah

    Now, I am far from being an expert or a Hebrew Scholar. An orthodox Rabbi could probably be helpful in this explanation, as they are Hebrew Scholars. But I would like to ask you and all of the people that claim that Yahweh is His name a question. Is this as confusing to you as it appears to me?
  10. Evangelion

    Evangelion <b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>

    FOW -

    Yes, really. Think about it. The Father is called "God" thousands of times throughout the entire Bible. The Son is called "god" about 4 or 5 times at the very most.

    If the writers of the Bible genuinely believed that Jesus is God, why the disparity? :cool:
  11. Evangelion

    Evangelion <b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>

    I'll be back later, to deal with the rest of this... stuff. :cool:
  12. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    Jehovahs Witness

    Clearly trinitarians added it to the text to try and prove what is not taught in scripture.

    As for Jesus being the "First and the Last". Lets look at the context.

    In Isaiah 44:6, Jehovah rightly describes his own position as the one and only almighty God, saying: "I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God." When Jesus presents himself by the title "the First and the Last," he is not claiming equality with Jehovah, the Grand Creator. He is using a title properly bestowed on him by God. In Isaiah, Jehovah was making a statement about His unique position as the true God. He is God eternal, and besides him there is indeed no God. (1 Timothy 1:17) In Revelation, Jesus is talking about his bestowed title, calling attention to his unique resurrection.

    Jesus was indeed "the First" human to be resurrected to immortal spirit life personally by Jehovah. (Colossians 1:18) Moreover, he is "the Last" to be so resurrected by Jehovah personally. Jesus thereafter becomes the means by which God resurrects all others. Thus, he becomes "the living one . . . living forever and ever." He enjoys immortality. In this, he is like his immortal Father, who is called "the living God." (Revelation 7:2; Psalm 42:2) For all others of humanity, Jesus himself is "the resurrection and the life." (John 11:25) In harmony with this, he says to John: "I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Hades." (Revelation 1:18b) Jehovah has given him the authority to resurrect the dead. That is why Jesus can say that he has the keys to unlock the gates for those bound by death and Hades. Compare Matthew 16:18.

    And since you like your Greek. In the original Hebrew at Isaiah 44:6, there is no definite article with the words "first" and "last," whereas in Jesus' description of himself in the original Greek at Revelation 1:17, the definite article is found. So, grammatically, Revelation 1:17 indicates a title, whereas Isaiah 44:6 describes Jehovah's Godship.

    Now you really are clutching at straws.

    Here is what Jesus actually said.
    Jesus said to them: "Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been." Therefore they picked up stones to hurl [them] at him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple. John 8:58-59

    Jesus simply answered the question. How could you know Abraham being less than fifty years of age. He answered simply that he was around long before Abraham was born.

    Translators have to consider the context and the context at John 8:58 is&nbsp;as above.

    But unfortunately God's reply in Hebrew was: ´Eh·yeh' ´Asher' ´Eh·yeh'. Some translations render this as "I AM THAT I AM." However, it is to be noted that the Hebrew verb ha·yah', from which the word ´Eh·yeh' is drawn, does not mean simply "be." Rather, it means "become," or "prove to be." The reference here is not to God's self-existence but to what he has in mind to become toward others. Therefore, the above Hebrew expression is properly renderd as "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE." Jehovah thereafter added: "This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, 'I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to you". This still has nothing to do with Jesus statement at John 8:58. The two statements are in no way related to each other.

    The word in English is Proskyneo and you seem to have missed the whole point of the word. It is used to denote worship, bowing down in respect (as is the case at Matt 28), prostrating oneself, doing Obeisance and so on.&nbsp; So, no bubble burst as you say so patronisingly.&nbsp;

    No it does not. Jesus name is mentioned which makes a huge difference. For example, suppose your fathers name is John, if you were to say Happy Birthday to John and my Boss or to my father and John then we would assume two different individuals.

    The verse in Jude should read "Master or Owner" not sovereign. Read vines Expository of Greek words.

    My reason is that certain men have slipped in who have long ago been appointed by the Scriptures to this judgment, ungodly men, turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct and proving false to our only Owner (or master0 and Lord, Jesus Christ. Jude 4

    As evident from the context, John 2:19 pertains to the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. We read: "Jesus said to them: 'Break down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.' Therefore the Jews said: 'This temple was built in forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days?' But he was talking about the temple of his body. When, though, he was raised up from the dead, his disciples called to mind that he used to say this; and they believed the Scripture and the saying that Jesus said:" John 2:19-22.

    It should be noted that, in telling about the fulfillment of Jesus' statement, the Bible does not say 'he raised himself up from the dead,' but "he was raised up from the dead." Other scriptures clearly show that God was the One who resurrected his Son. The apostle Peter told Cornelius and his relatives and close friends: "God raised this One up on the third day." (Acts 10:40) Hebrews 13:20 speaks of God as the One "who brought up from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep with the blood of an everlasting covenant, our Lord Jesus." And, in his letter to the Romans, the apostle Paul wrote: "If, now, the spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his spirit that resides in you." (Rom. 8:11) Accordingly, Jesus Christ simply could not have meant that he would raise himself up from the dead.

    Jesus, however, did know that he was going to die and be resurrected. On another occasion he told unbelieving scribes and Pharisees: "A wicked and adulterous generation keeps on seeking for a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Jonah the prophet. For just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights." (Matt. 12:39, 40) Having this advance knowledge about his death and resurrection, Jesus, in a predictive sense, could speak of 'raising up the temple of his body.' Since he foretold it, it was just as if he was going to do it. This might be illustrated with Ezekiel 43:3, where the prophet Ezekiel states: "I came to bring the city [Jerusalem] to ruin," that is, by foretelling its destruction. Ezekiel as an exile in

    Babylon had no part in actually destroying Jerusalem; that was done by the Babylonians. But his prophecy, being divinely inspired, made it as good as done. (Compare also Jeremiah 1:10.) Similarly, Jehovah God resurrected his Son, but Jesus could speak of doing so in a prophetic sense.

    Moreover, God's will, charge or command respecting his Son was that he die and be restored to life. Jesus willingly surrendered his life in harmony with his Father's purpose. Jesus could therefore raise up the temple of his body in the sense that he had the authority to receive life again.

    On the third day God commanded Jesus to rise from the dead, and he did so by accepting or receiving life at his Father's hand, by God's authority. Along with life as a spirit Son, he received the right to perfect human life that, by dying in full innocence, he had not forfeited. This merit of his human sacrifice he thereafter presented to his Father in heaven. (Heb. 9:11-14, 24-28) This is in agreement with Jesus' words at John 10:17, 18: "The Father loves me because I lay down my life, to receive it back again. No one has robbed me of it; I am laying it down of my own free will. I have the right to lay it down, and I have the right to receive it back again; this charge I have received from my Father." New English Bible.
  13. Evangelion

    Evangelion <b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>

    FOW -


    This is spam. It is not even properly formatted. Most of it is irrelevant - and that little which is relevant, has already been addressed by me in previous posts.

    I already tried that, and you didn't want to play.

    Instead of ignoring everything I've written and spamming the board with irrelevant arguments, why can't you just present a point-by-point rebuttal, as I have done with you? :cool:
  14. Evangelion

    Evangelion <b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>

    HT -

    Which "experts"? Who are these "experts", and why should their opinion be of interest to me?

    I agree that he called Him "Father." I agree that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

    You will find it easier to debate me if you actually take the time to learn what I believe, instead of lashing out wildly in all directions. :cool:
  15. Evangelion

    Evangelion <b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>

    Jedi -

    ROTFL, "a verse or two"? I've addressed masses of them - and I am still waiting for a counter-rebuttal. But what happens? I don't get one.

    I see this all the time. A Trinitarian throws out a smokescreen of proof texts, and prays that his opponent won't be able to find his way through them. Then, when it is obvious that his opponent is made of stronger stuff, he simply abandons his original proof texts (with little more than a token resistance!) and throws out another half-dozen.

    He rarely makes any attempt to explain his proof texts. He rarely makes any effort to defend or vindicate them. Most frequently, this is because he just doesn't know how. And why? Because other people do his thinking for him. He has been told what to believe, and he dares not question it. He cannot defend his beliefs in true apostolic style, so he retreats into rhetoric, and jumps like a chamois from proof text to proof text.

    This is exactly what the JWs and Mormons do. The methodological parallels are both striking and undeniable.


    No, there is only a molehill, which I am currently in the process of flattening. :cool:
  16. Evangelion

    Evangelion <b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>

    People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.
    Søren Kierkegaard.

  17. Evangelion

    Evangelion <b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>

    Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so.
    Bertrand Russell.

  18. Evangelion

    Evangelion <b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>

    Opinions founded on prejudice are always sustained with the greatest violence.
    Jewish Proverb.

  19. Higher Truth

    Higher Truth Active Member


    'Which "experts"? Who are these "experts", and why should their opinion be of interest to me?'

    Not all 'experts' have credentials, but here is a very important one that you might want to review. His name is Emmanuel Tov, and he is heading up the Hebrew University Masoretic Text Project. The 'original' writings of the OT manuscripts are under review. Is Yahweh the correct name? Check with an 'expert' in translation and language. You might be suprised. I am not lashing out wildly. It is only your reaction to information I've posted. You're an intelligent guy, but if you want me to view you seriously, then you must stop doing this...No fruitless discussion.
  20. Evangelion

    Evangelion <b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>

    HT -

    I would be very surprised if this fellow can overturn decades of reliable scholarship and archaeological evidence, yes.

    Yes, you are. You are shooting in the dark, hoping to hit something, because you don't actually know what I believe.

    No, it is my reaction to the disinformation that you've posted.

    Stop doing what?

    I'm the only one who's actually putting in any effort! :cool:
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