Christmas Question

[Carl Emerson]

When the Magi followed the Star signifying the birth of a King - did this indicate astrology is to be embraced by believers?

 

[PloverWing]

I hear the story as saying that God can work through even our mistaken ideas (like astrology) to communicate with us.

 

[RonJohnSilver]

Astrology is it is practiced today is an abomination and should not be used, consulted by Christians at all, ever.

Read in the book of Daniel that after the Persians took over, Daniel was promoted to the head of the astrologers or rather Magi or the "astronomers" or "sky-watchers" of the time, those men who studied the stars and constellations. It would then be from Daniel that they learned of the true God and the OT signs that would accompany the birth of the Messiah. The actual star alignment(s) were of course, a miracle, at least in their timing and placement, but it would be through Daniel that the Magi knew what to watch for and its significance.

 

[timothyu]

I don't think anyone at the time, including of the writings, saw any need to self justify this.

 

[Fervent]

Not any more than someone predicting an eclipse with astronomy means the natural sciences are to be embraced by believers. Where astrology goes wrong is not in the act of studying the stars and drawing conclusions from them, which may or may not be eroneous, but in putting stock into mythologies and directing worship towards the creation rather than the Creator.

 

[St_Worm2]

When the Magi followed the Star signifying the birth of a King - did this indicate astrology is to be embraced by believers?

Hello Carl, has new information surfaced confirming that the Magi were astrologers, not astronomers? (as I'm sure you know, this topic is one that is always debated/has never been proven, one way or the other .. in fact, I've read articles insinuating that they were both)

If it has, please link us to the article(s) so that we can read it for ourselves.

Thanks

Merry Christmas!!

--David

 

[Aussie Pete]

When the Magi followed the Star signifying the birth of a King - did this indicate astrology is to be embraced by believers?

No. The Old Testament forbids astrology. (Deuteronomy 4:19)

 

[Carl Emerson]

Hello Carl, has new information surfaced confirming that the Magi were astrologers, not astronomers? (as I'm sure you know, this topic is one that is always debated/has never been proven, one way or the other .. in fact, I've read articles insinuating that they were both)

If it has, please link us to the article(s) so that we can read it for ourselves.

Thanks

Merry Christmas!!

--David

Hi David, I guess the thought is they were Zoroastrian and astronomy was merged with astrology back then.

My son has been studying theology and has strong opinions but not sure if he can back with good evidence - I will ask.

Personally I stay right away from astrology, being very mindful of the spiritual bondage it brings - I always answer that I am born under the star of David, to stop the rant.

I believe Jesus wants us free from all influences that oppose the unique and personal guidance that the Holy Spirit brings.

To systematically characterize the behaviour of the unredeemed and identify with such traits is nuts in my view.

 

[Strong in Him]

When the Magi followed the Star signifying the birth of a King - did this indicate astrology is to be embraced by believers?

No.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Mmmm... not one voice wanting to defend the practice...

Merry Christmas all - the birth of all births will be remembered.

 

[Strong in Him]

Mmmm... not one voice wanting to defend the practice...

My understanding is that in those days, astrology was closely linked to astronomy; the study of the stars and night sky.
There is nothing wrong with that.
The Lord just met these Magi where they were and used something they would understand - a star - to announce the news of his Son.

Today, astrology has come to mean predicting the future, or claiming that a person's personality, and what s going to happen to them, is based on the stars/planets.
But we can still use this for a conversation about the Gospel - if we talk about, and point to, the One who made the stars.

 

[honey badger]

My understanding is that in those days, astrology was closely linked to astronomy; the study of the stars and night sky.
There is nothing wrong with that.
The Lord just met these Magi where they were and used something they would understand - a star - to announce the news of his Son.

Today, astrology has come to mean predicting the future, or claiming that a person's personality, and what s going to happen to them, is based on the stars/planets.
But we can still use this for a conversation about the Gospel - if we talk about, and point to, the One who made the stars.

agreed ... the heavens declare him ... him being the son of promise brought forth by process ..

it says in Job By His Spirit He adorned the heavens; His hand pierced the fleeing serpent. and no coincidence the word used for pierced implies (among other things) to be broken, it's interesting that the constellation of Serpens is broken in two, being divided by the constellation Ophiuchus, which means serpent bearer and is represented by a man grasping a serpent.

By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

 

[Tuur]

When the Magi followed the Star signifying the birth of a King - did this indicate astrology is to be embraced by believers?

No, because of this:

And beware lest you raise your eyes to heaven, and when you see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, you be drawn away and bow down to them and serve them, things that the Lord your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.

-Deuteronomy 4:19

And this:

Thus says the Lord: “Learn not the way of the nations, nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens because the nations are dismayed at them,

-Jeremiah 10:2

And then there's this:

You are wearied with your many counsels; let them stand forth and save you, those who divide the heavens, who gaze at the stars, who at the new moons make known what shall come upon you. Behold, they are like stubble; the fire consumes them; they cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame. No coal for warming oneself is this, no fire to sit before!

-Isaiah 47:13-14

 

[Bob Crowley]

Back then there wasn't the same distinction between astronomy and astrology. Astrologers would have studied the stars as part of their trade.

There's an article here which might be of some interest.

Mysteries of the Magi

‘When Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the da...

www.catholic.com

I found the following extract to be interesting -

What about astrology?​

What about the role of astrology itself in this account? Although astrology was popular among Gentiles, it wasn’t so among Jews, many of whom looked down on it. This in itself argues that Matthew’s tradition about the magi is historically accurate. It’s not the kind of thing that Jewish Christians would make up.

However, while astrology wasn’t as popular among Jews as among Gentiles, it did exist. Genesis says that God made the sun, moon, and stars “to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years” (1:14). This could mean that they are simply to be timekeeping markers. But some Jews thought that their function as “signs” included information about future events. Thus, the Dead Sea Scrolls contain astrological texts.

In the ancient world, there was no rigid distinction between astronomy and astrology. It’s only in the last few centuries that the two have been disentangled. This happened as scientists discovered what the effects the sun, moon, and stars do and don’t have on life here on Earth.

Even Thomas Aquinas, based on the science of his day, thought that the heavenly bodies had an influence on the passions and could, for example, make a man prone to anger—but not in such a way that it would overwhelm his free will (Commentary on Matthew 2:1-2, ST I:115:4, II-II:95:5).

 

[timothyu]

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

​