Christians owning guns specifically for self defense? (Biblical references, insight?)

[SBC]

again I say amen...in fact, I talked about that very thing with these two men...my biggest problem is that they were attacking God not me. That is something I had to learn long long ago.

You know, I found it interesting and telling that one of the two posters in question recognized the abuse of the things he was saying when it applied to someone else but refuses to recognize it in his own posts.

Men are mystified to truly Believe what they can not understand and/or what they cannot see.

If a philosophy can make sense to their MIND, they become satisfied.

However the MIND is against God.
It is not US, we are to satisfy, but God.

Ignoring our MIND, God seeks our true Belief. In our Hearts....then it is He that does ALL for us from there forward...forgiving, saving, quickening, teaching, giving His Wisdom, His Understanding, His keeping us freed from sin.

Some people ACT, like dividing the word of truth, means to reinvent the truth, and the understanding according to what logically makes sense to their MIND.

I was naturally born in sin - thus I was Against God.
He forgave and covered my SIN, with His Spirit, which IS LIGHT, which overcomes Darkness. His Spirit, which IS POWER, Keeps me freed from SIN.

Hebrews/Jews have always been the Teachers of God Word. OT, NT, the same.

Laws of the Jews, for thousands of years has always BEEN, to be against GOD, is a SIN, to be against other men, is a SIN.

God forgiving, covering, my SIN, is according to Jesus, NOT JEWISH LAW.
My sin Against God was to NOT heartfully BELIEVE IN HIM.
Only God can forgive SIN.
My sin is thus ONLY against HIM.

Jews call behavior against men, A SIN.
That IS their LAW.

To rightly divide the word of truth ~
I learn from NT Jews, acceptable behaviors of men toward men, yet do not pretend WHAT THEY CALL A SIN, somehow magically applies to me.

Jews regularly "forgive men of sin, that they have determine, BY THEIR LAW IS SIN, and are supposed to forgive men.

Does that present a dilemma for me, a Gentile?
No, because Scripture also teaches, among men, there will be Trespasses, and men are to Give Forgiveness of Trespasses BETWEEN men.
I do not have to ASK GOD to forgive MY TRESPASSES toward 'men'.
He has ALREADY INFORMED ME, "IF" I do, forgive men their TRESPASSES against me; He will forgive my TRESPASSES against men.

Dividing the word of Truth, is simply KNOWING, what applies to you and what doesn't.

Men OF and IN the world, LIKE TO DICTATE, FOR YOU, what applies to you......
AS IF....they know your heart, and know what you have done and do, serving the Lord as He has given you the "tools", to serve HIM in the manner that is acceptable to Him.

Does learning the teaching of Jews between men apply to you? Yes.
Does that make you subject to their Laws?
No.

Can you SIN Against men, because a Jews Law calls is so? No.

A man born of God, IS forever IN STAND WITH GOD. Because Gods Power within the man FOREVER KEEPS the man that he sins no more.

So, are we to PRAY, and PRAY, and PRAY, for God to forgive, such a man born of God?
He already has.

No, and neither did Jesus, who was born of God.

Our prayers are to become different....

We are to NOW be SEEKING His Wisdom, His Understanding, Exalting His Great Names,
Speaking His Truths, that others may desire to become converted and KNOW Him.

Thanking Him, Blessing Him, Glorifying Him.

Instead of God, your forgiveness Fail...can you try again...

The PRACTICE for man, IS to LISTEN TO the thoughts of his spirit in his Heart, that GOD is feeding with His Spirit.

This means the MAN has to Practice to STOP listening to HIS MIND concerning Spiritual things, and rather MAKE HIS MIND subjective to the thoughts in His Heart......THEN will a man achieve, having a MIND LIKE CHRIST.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[razzelflabben]

Men are mystified to truly Believe what they can not understand and/or what they cannot see.

If a philosophy can make sense to their MIND, they become satisfied.

However the MIND is against God.
It is not US, we are to satisfy, but God.

Ignoring our MIND, God seeks our true Belief. In our Hearts....then it is He that does ALL for us from there forward...forgiving, saving, quickening, teaching, giving His Wisdom, His Understanding, His keeping us freed from sin.

Some people ACT, like dividing the word of truth, means to reinvent the truth, and the understanding according to what logically makes sense to their MIND.

I was naturally born in sin - thus I was Against God.
He forgave and covered my SIN, with His Spirit, which IS LIGHT, which overcomes Darkness. His Spirit, which IS POWER, Keeps me freed from SIN.

Hebrews/Jews have always been the Teachers of God Word. OT, NT, the same.

Laws of the Jews, for thousands of years has always BEEN, to be against GOD, is a SIN, to be against other men, is a SIN.

God forgiving, covering, my SIN, is according to Jesus, NOT JEWISH LAW.
My sin Against God was to NOT heartfully BELIEVE IN HIM.
Only God can forgive SIN.
My sin is thus ONLY against HIM.

Jews call behavior against men, A SIN.
That IS their LAW.

To rightly divide the word of truth ~
I learn from NT Jews, acceptable behaviors of men toward men, yet do not pretend WHAT THEY CALL A SIN, somehow magically applies to me.

Jews regularly "forgive men of sin, that they have determine, BY THEIR LAW IS SIN, and are supposed to forgive men.

Does that present a dilemma for me, a Gentile?
No, because Scripture also teaches, among men, there will be Trespasses, and men are to Give Forgiveness of Trespasses BETWEEN men.
I do not have to ASK GOD to forgive MY TRESPASSES toward 'men'.
He has ALREADY INFORMED ME, "IF" I do, forgive men their TRESPASSES against me; He will forgive my TRESPASSES against men.

Dividing the word of Truth, is simply KNOWING, what applies to you and what doesn't.

Men OF and IN the world, LIKE TO DICTATE, FOR YOU, what applies to you......
AS IF....they know your heart, and know what you have done and do, serving the Lord as He has given you the "tools", to serve HIM in the manner that is acceptable to Him.

Does learning the teaching of Jews between men apply to you? Yes.
Does that make you subject to their Laws?
No.

Can you SIN Against men, because a Jews Law calls is so? No.

A man born of God, IS forever IN STAND WITH GOD. Because Gods Power within the man FOREVER KEEPS the man that he sins no more.

So, are we to PRAY, and PRAY, and PRAY, for God to forgive, such a man born of God?
He already has.

No, and neither did Jesus, who was born of God.

Our prayers are to become different....

We are to NOW be SEEKING His Wisdom, His Understanding, Exalting His Great Names,
Speaking His Truths, that others may desire to become converted and KNOW Him.

Thanking Him, Blessing Him, Glorifying Him.

Instead of God, your forgiveness Fail...can you try again...

The PRACTICE for man, IS to LISTEN TO the thoughts of his spirit in his Heart, that GOD is feeding with His Spirit.

This means the MAN has to Practice to STOP listening to HIS MIND concerning Spiritual things, and rather MAKE HIS MIND subjective to the thoughts in His Heart......THEN will a man achieve, having a MIND LIKE CHRIST.

God Bless,
SBC

I am not sure I totally understand what you are suggesting here. Scripture talks about men sinning against God and man and man's need to forget others.

I once did an in depth study on forgiving and even talked about it in a thread on these boards. Most people haven't had enough "abuse/sin/wrongdoing/etc." to really understand how hard it is to forgive in our own power. When there are horrible things done to us we need the power of the indwelling HS to help us forgive as Christ forgave. This too was challenged by some here...(that the HS is part of the believers life)

The Spiritually alive man lives in the power of the HS and if he does not, we are to separate from him...2 Timothy 3:5...so where I want to say amen, I think I need you to clarify some of your post before I know if I can say amen or not.

 

[Buzz_B]

Men are mystified to truly Believe what they can not understand and/or what they cannot see.

If a philosophy can make sense to their MIND, they become satisfied.

However the MIND is against God.
It is not US, we are to satisfy, but God.

Ignoring our MIND, God seeks our true Belief. In our Hearts....then it is He that does ALL for us from there forward...forgiving, saving, quickening, teaching, giving His Wisdom, His Understanding, His keeping us freed from sin.

Some people ACT, like dividing the word of truth, means to reinvent the truth, and the understanding according to what logically makes sense to their MIND.

I was naturally born in sin - thus I was Against God.
He forgave and covered my SIN, with His Spirit, which IS LIGHT, which overcomes Darkness. His Spirit, which IS POWER, Keeps me freed from SIN.

Hebrews/Jews have always been the Teachers of God Word. OT, NT, the same.

Laws of the Jews, for thousands of years has always BEEN, to be against GOD, is a SIN, to be against other men, is a SIN.

God forgiving, covering, my SIN, is according to Jesus, NOT JEWISH LAW.
My sin Against God was to NOT heartfully BELIEVE IN HIM.
Only God can forgive SIN.
My sin is thus ONLY against HIM.

Jews call behavior against men, A SIN.
That IS their LAW.

To rightly divide the word of truth ~
I learn from NT Jews, acceptable behaviors of men toward men, yet do not pretend WHAT THEY CALL A SIN, somehow magically applies to me.

Jews regularly "forgive men of sin, that they have determine, BY THEIR LAW IS SIN, and are supposed to forgive men.

Does that present a dilemma for me, a Gentile?
No, because Scripture also teaches, among men, there will be Trespasses, and men are to Give Forgiveness of Trespasses BETWEEN men.
I do not have to ASK GOD to forgive MY TRESPASSES toward 'men'.
He has ALREADY INFORMED ME, "IF" I do, forgive men their TRESPASSES against me; He will forgive my TRESPASSES against men.

Dividing the word of Truth, is simply KNOWING, what applies to you and what doesn't.

Men OF and IN the world, LIKE TO DICTATE, FOR YOU, what applies to you......
AS IF....they know your heart, and know what you have done and do, serving the Lord as He has given you the "tools", to serve HIM in the manner that is acceptable to Him.

Does learning the teaching of Jews between men apply to you? Yes.
Does that make you subject to their Laws?
No.

Can you SIN Against men, because a Jews Law calls is so? No.

A man born of God, IS forever IN STAND WITH GOD. Because Gods Power within the man FOREVER KEEPS the man that he sins no more.

So, are we to PRAY, and PRAY, and PRAY, for God to forgive, such a man born of God?
He already has.

No, and neither did Jesus, who was born of God.

Our prayers are to become different....

We are to NOW be SEEKING His Wisdom, His Understanding, Exalting His Great Names,
Speaking His Truths, that others may desire to become converted and KNOW Him.

Thanking Him, Blessing Him, Glorifying Him.

Instead of God, your forgiveness Fail...can you try again...

The PRACTICE for man, IS to LISTEN TO the thoughts of his spirit in his Heart, that GOD is feeding with His Spirit.

This means the MAN has to Practice to STOP listening to HIS MIND concerning Spiritual things, and rather MAKE HIS MIND subjective to the thoughts in His Heart......THEN will a man achieve, having a MIND LIKE CHRIST.

God Bless,
SBC

That is a lot of words but no Scriptural references given to support that what you speak is any more than your own conceited opinion.

It is not the "mind" which is at enmity with God. It is the CARNAL THINKING mind that is at enmity with God. The idea comes from Paul's words at Romans 8:6-8

6 "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal [focused] mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are [living] in the flesh [for only the flesh] cannot please God."

Romans 7:25 "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

The thought has to do with where our affections really are. If are affections are fixated here on the flesh we will think only carnally in accord with the selfishness of our flesh. But if our affections are fixated on things above we will think spiritually and unselfishly as the things of our unselfish God above. It is a choice we must make: Colossians 3:2 "Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth."

1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things [and began thinking like a mature man]."

Romans 2:14-15
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Ephesians 4:17, 23 "This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, ...................
............. And be renewed in the spirit of your mind"

 

[Buzz_B]

And yet you were shown in the context of the account of Peter cutting off the ear of the soldier that Jesus reprimanded him not for being a criminal but because the time for them to take Jesus away had come.

You see, you are doing the very thing you are railing against others for doing....like scripture says, when someone attacks another without cause it's usually because they are projecting their own sin onto others.

Let's look at the passage again...Jesus just talks about the time being upon them and then we have this....
10 Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s servant, cutting off his right ear. (The servant’s name was Malchus.)

11 Jesus commanded Peter, “Put your sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?”

12 Then the detachment of soldiers with its commander and the Jewish officials arrested Jesus. They bound him 13 and brought him first to Annas, who was the father-in-law of Caiaphas, the high priest that year.14 Caiaphas was the one who had advised the Jewish leaders that it would be good if one man died for the people.

So you see, Jesus said nothing about being a criminal, rather He said that it was time for the prophecy to be fulfilled. The same account is found in Matthew 26 and again context shows us that it was about fulfilling prophecy not criminal acts that Jesus reprimanded Peter for.

Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51 With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.

52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”

55 In that hour Jesus said to the crowd, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. 56 But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled.”Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.

Now I know that this context does not support your position but then again, we aren't interested in your position but rather what scripture says.

I basically liked this post.

I think what I like most about it as it pertains to the subject of this thread is summed up in that we are to put on Christ. Let me explain:

11 Jesus commanded Peter, “Put your sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?”

Have we not also been given that cup to drink? Should we not see that if we are to put on Christ that we must do as he did for the sake of our fellow? Do we make the mistake of thinking it was all fulfilled right there and that nothing is left for us to fulfill?

Romans 8:4 "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Revelation 6:11 "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

Do we realize that for us those spoken of at Revelation 6:10 includes the Son of man?

Revelation 6:10 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"

Matthew 20:22-23
22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.


How then does this affect our view of war and of self-defense?

 

[SBC]

I am not sure I totally understand what you are suggesting here. Scripture talks about men sinning against God and man and man's need to forget others.

I once did an in depth study on forgiving and even talked about it in a thread on these boards. Most people haven't had enough "abuse/sin/wrongdoing/etc." to really understand how hard it is to forgive in our own power. When there are horrible things done to us we need the power of the indwelling HS to help us forgive as Christ forgave. This too was challenged by some here...(that the HS is part of the believers life)

The Spiritually alive man lives in the power of the HS and if he does not, we are to separate from him...2 Timothy 3:5...so where I want to say amen, I think I need you to clarify some of your post before I know if I can say amen or not.

Okay. Will be a bit later, or tomorrow, nearing supper & family time.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

That is a lot of words but no Scriptural references given to support that what you speak is any more than your own conceited opinion.

It is not the "mind" which is at enmity with God. It is the CARNAL THINKING mind that is at enmity with God. The idea comes from Paul's words at Romans 8:6-8

6 "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal [focused] mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are [living] in the flesh [for only the flesh] cannot please God."

Romans 7:25 "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

The thought has to do with where our affections really are. If are affections are fixated here on the flesh we will think only carnally in accord with the selfishness of our flesh. But if our affections are fixated on things above we will think spiritually and unselfishly as the things of our unselfish God above. It is a choice we must make: Colossians 3:2 "Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth."

1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things [and began thinking like a mature man]."

Romans 2:14-15
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Ephesians 4:17, 23 "This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, ...................
............. And be renewed in the spirit of your mind"

Very good for looking up the scriptures to verify, what I said, and funny you call me conceited.

In addition to looking up to verify as scripture teaches one to do.....you make it comical by calling it my conceited opinion....when it was all based in scripture.

And BTW, the mind is carnal, natural, against God, lest one has become indwelt with the HS, AND can learn from the HS in his heart, until his CARNAL MIND relents, to the thoughts in his heart, THEN ones MIND becomes Christ-Like.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Buzz_B]

Very good for looking up the scriptures to verify, what I said, and funny you call me conceited.

In addition to looking up to verify as scripture teaches one to do.....you make it comical by calling it my conceited opinion....when it was all based in scripture.

And BTW, the mind is carnal, natural, against God, lest one has become indwelt with the HS, AND can learn from the HS in his heart, until his CARNAL MIND relents, to the thoughts in his heart, THEN ones MIND becomes Christ-Like.

God Bless,
SBC

You now are manifesting the same self focused sensitivity that get razzalflabben in trouble.

I did not call you conceited. Read it again:

"That is a lot of words but no Scriptural references given to support that what you speak is any more than your own conceited opinion."

Are there not enough people feeling sorry for themselves in this thread? What I said is not even an insinuation. It is a simple fact of: How do we know that you are not speaking from conceit if you don't provide the Scriptural support to back up your thoughts?

Your last paragraph might be believable but you expect that we should just take your word for it by once again not providing the Scriptural support for your thoughts. Surely you do not ascribe to peoples being gullible and just swallowing your words because you say they are right?

Edit: But maybe you posted that to help razzelflabben see what she does. It is easier for most of us to see our mistakes when others make them because then our emotions are not prematurely excited by our hastily grabbing onto first impressions born of our own paranoia. Because there is no personal attachment.

So maybe God was in control here.

 

[SBC]

You now are manifesting the same self focused sensitivity that get razzalflabben in trouble.

I did not call you conceited. Read it again:

"That is a lot of words but no Scriptural references given to support that what you speak is any more than your own conceited opinion."

Oh good grief - good for you, you followed the politically correct "rules".

I am fully aware, my word, my speech, my thoughts, my opinion, are of me.

Are there not enough people feeling sorry for themselves in this thread? What I said is not even an insinuation. It is a simple fact of: How do we know that you are not speaking from conceit if you don't provide the Scriptural support to back up your thoughts?

I'd hardly call feeling sorry for myself, something that I found funny.
If other people are feeling sorry for themselves, that's their right to their own feelings.

Your last paragraph might be believable but you expect that we should just take your word for it by once again not providing the Scriptural support for your thoughts. Surely you do not ascribe to peoples being gullible and just swallowing your words because you say they are right?

I have no issues with speaking to adults, in general, who have some in depth knowledge of Scripture.

If you require someone to provide you with every Scripture they are indicating, you would do well with a one on one teacher, with the Bible in hand. I am on my phone, and am not going to look up every Scripture for you.

If you do not comprehend the HUGE change in a man from being naturally Carnal Minded, to becoming Spiritually Minded, you are not at the same distance, as myself.

It has nothing to DO with God converting your Carnal Mind, and everything to do with the mans own efforts, by the Power of God, given to a man who HAS become converted.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Buzz_B]

Oh good grief - good for you, you followed the politically correct "rules".

I am fully aware, my word, my speech, my thoughts, my opinion, are of me.



I'd hardly call feeling sorry for myself, something that I found funny.
If other people are feeling sorry for themselves, that's their right to their own feelings.



I have no issues with speaking to adults, in general, who have some in depth knowledge of Scripture.

If you require someone to provide you with every Scripture they are indicating, you would do well with a one on one teacher, with the Bible in hand. I am on my phone, and am not going to look up every Scripture for you.

If you do not comprehend the HUGE change in a man from being naturally Carnal Minded, to becoming Spiritually Minded, you are not at the same distance, as myself.

It has nothing to DO with God converting your Carnal Mind, and everything to do with the mans own efforts, by the Power of God, given to a man who HAS become converted.

God Bless,
SBC

Curiously asking, Are you also a female? I mean, I know razzelflabben is.

There is a place on this site where you can get your Bible texts from. And your posts are so long that typing them up seems not to be the problem. Clip yourself a shortcut to this site's Bible. No, you do not have to clip that shortcut as it is in the bar at the top of the screen.

Also, you said, "I have no issues with speaking to adults, in general, who have some in depth knowledge of Scripture."

That would be true if they agree with your stand. But they have to do as I did and shoot in the dark so to speak concerning what you are basing your opinions on when they disagree with you. If you provide those references they can then discuss the proper view of those references. You do not even have to put the words there. Just the reference.

 

[SBC]

Curiously asking, Are you also a female? I mean, I know razzelflabben is.

There is a place on this site where you can get your Bible texts from. And your posts are so long that typing them up seems not to be the problem. Clip yourself a shortcut to this site's Bible. No, you do not have to clip that shortcut as it is in the bar at the top of the screen.

Also, you said, "I have no issues with speaking to adults, in general, who have some in depth knowledge of Scripture."

That would be true if they agree with your stand. But they have to do as I did and shoot in the dark so to speak concerning what you are basing your opinions on when they disagree with you. If you provide those references they can then discuss the proper view of those references. You do not even have to put the words there. Just the reference.

Just saying, if you have a particular issue with something I've said, that you do not know, or cannot find in scripture to validate, ask.

It was obvious, you sought scripture and validated what I said.

Was there something else?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Buzz_B]

Just saying, if you have a particular issue with something I've said, that you do not know, or cannot find in scripture to validate, ask.

It was obvious, you sought scripture and validated what I said.

Was there something else?

God Bless,
SBC

Right.

You went onto say, "If you do not comprehend the HUGE change in a man from being naturally Carnal Minded, to becoming Spiritually Minded, you are not at the same distance, as myself."

I understand that to mean, "If one does not comprehend the HUGE change in a man from being naturally Carnal Minded, to becoming Spiritually Minded, that one is not at the same distance, as myself."

See how I took personal offense out of that? I graciously gave you what is called, "The benefit of a doubt", after the example set by our creator and Paul's counsel on love at 1 Corinthians 13:1-8.

Then you continued onto say, "It has nothing to DO with God converting your Carnal Mind, and everything to do with the mans own efforts, by the Power of God, given to a man who HAS become converted."

That made Romans 8:7 come to my mind: "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

That is why we die with Christ. It is the carnal thinking man we allow to die in favor of living by the spirit in Christ. To keep that carnal thinking man alive even a little is like not really having died with Christ and it cannot but hinder us.

It seems you understand that. That is our job. It is our job to die with Christ for only then are we freed from the carnal thinking man in order to really home in on the spirit of God. Until then we live war in our flesh between the spirit and the flesh, and when we don't feel well physically or are pressed by tensions we vacillate back and forth between the spiritual and the carnal causing us to be lukewarm. Revelation 3:16

 

[SBC]

Right.

You went onto say, "If you do not comprehend the HUGE change in a man from being naturally Carnal Minded, to becoming Spiritually Minded, you are not at the same distance, as myself."

I understand that to mean, "If one does not comprehend the HUGE change in a man from being naturally Carnal Minded, to becoming Spiritually Minded, that one is not at the same distance, as myself."

See how I took personal offense out of that? I graciously gave you what is called, "The benefit of a doubt", after the example set by our creator and Paul's counsel on love at 1 Corinthians 13:1-8.

Then you continued onto say, "It has nothing to DO with God converting your Carnal Mind, and everything to do with the mans own efforts, by the Power of God, given to a man who HAS become converted."

That made Romans 8:7 come to my mind: "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

That is why we die with Christ. It is the carnal thinking man we allow to die in favor of living by the spirit in Christ. To keep that carnal thinking man alive even a little is like not really having died with Christ and it cannot but hinder us.

It seems you understand that. That is our job. It is our job to die with Christ for only then are we freed from the carnal thinking man in order to really home in on the spirit of God.

It is our reasonable service, to GIVE our life as a living sacrifice to God.

Until then, a man cannot become born of God.

Until then we live war in our flesh between the spirit and the flesh,

Thereafter it is our JOB, to listen to our spirit in our heart, being fed by the indwelling HS, OVER out Minds.

and when we don't feel well physically or are pressed by tensions we vacillate back and forth between the spiritual and the carnal causing us to be lukewarm. Revelation 3:16

Rev 3:16. Is about men, who have been hearing the Word of God, but ARE dallying in GIVING their life as a living sacrifice to God.

IOW - lukewarm, hearing, but not committed.

Rev 3 finishes...with one to be zealous ...
Repent...Overcome...so they may become "WITH" God.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Buzz_B]

It is our reasonable service, to GIVE our life as a living sacrifice to God.

Until then, a man cannot become born of God.



Thereafter it is our JOB, to listen to our spirit in our heart, being fed by the indwelling HS, OVER out Minds.



Rev 3:16. Is about men, who have been hearing the Word of God, but ARE dallying in GIVING their life as a living sacrifice to God.

IOW - lukewarm, hearing, but not committed.

Rev 3 finishes...with one to be zealous ...
Repent...Overcome...so they may become "WITH" God.

God Bless,
SBC

Amen, I fully agree with you.

 

[SBC]

Amen, I fully agree with you.

Credit to God, and Glory to God, in being in AGREEMENT with Him.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[razzelflabben]

I basically liked this post.

I think what I like most about it as it pertains to the subject of this thread is summed up in that we are to put on Christ. Let me explain:

11 Jesus commanded Peter, “Put your sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?”

Have we not also been given that cup to drink? Should we not see that if we are to put on Christ that we must do as he did for the sake of our fellow? Do we make the mistake of thinking it was all fulfilled right there and that nothing is left for us to fulfill?

Romans 8:4 "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Revelation 6:11 "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

Do we realize that for us those spoken of at Revelation 6:10 includes the Son of man?

Revelation 6:10 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"

Matthew 20:22-23
22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.


How then does this affect our view of war and of self-defense?

I hope the kindness of this post is evidence that it will continue and we can go back to a discussion that honors God rather than the judgments that have previously been offered. In that hope let me respond to your question.

I have said from very early on in this thread to the present moment that based on all the scriptures presented I believe that the answer lies in praying and listening to what God tells us needs to happen in the specific situation we find ourselves in. Then, in that answer, no matter what that answer is, rest knowing that we did things according to God's will and purpose. IOW's allow God to tell us what He needs us to do in the situation and if we obey that, there is no sin for us to have to deal with. Whether a death of the violent person occurs or not..it's about God's timing, purpose, will.

Let me try to give an analogy that might clear this up since some here seem so hardhearted they can't understand what I am saying. Our son died in a freak swimming accident. Now we could have forbidden him from swimming that day and prevented his death, but would it have prevented his death? God ordered his days...God chose the day and time and way our son would die...if we had forbidden him from swimming that day he would have either gone without permission or died some other way because it was so ordained by God. Likewise in a situation that is life threatening, God ordains what happens and why, when, how it happens. As long as we are listening to God and not ourselves or Satan or others, we cannot sin in what we do...the only way we can sin is if we violate God's will and purpose in the situation.

 

[razzelflabben]

Very good for looking up the scriptures to verify, what I said, and funny you call me conceited.

In addition to looking up to verify as scripture teaches one to do.....you make it comical by calling it my conceited opinion....when it was all based in scripture.

And BTW, the mind is carnal, natural, against God, lest one has become indwelt with the HS, AND can learn from the HS in his heart, until his CARNAL MIND relents, to the thoughts in his heart, THEN ones MIND becomes Christ-Like.

God Bless,
SBC

some of the judgments that some here are so fond of but refuse to take responsibility for. Your in good company.

 

[razzelflabben]

If you require someone to provide you with every Scripture they are indicating, you would do well with a one on one teacher, with the Bible in hand. I am on my phone, and am not going to look up every Scripture for you.

actually this topic came up before and I pointed out that there were too many supporting scriptures to post them all....that didn't satisfy some so I posted a half dozen supporting passages and all I got for the effort was "it doesn't say what you claim" even though I didn't claim anything about what they said, and "the first one says X which you didn't say, therefore we can dismiss all the ones that support your understanding"...it really is problematic for some to accuse of opinion when all they offer is their own opinions and refuse context of the scriptures. Welcome the the nightmare of this thread.

 

[razzelflabben]

It is our reasonable service, to GIVE our life as a living sacrifice to God.

Until then, a man cannot become born of God.



Thereafter it is our JOB, to listen to our spirit in our heart, being fed by the indwelling HS, OVER out Minds.



Rev 3:16. Is about men, who have been hearing the Word of God, but ARE dallying in GIVING their life as a living sacrifice to God.

IOW - lukewarm, hearing, but not committed.

Rev 3 finishes...with one to be zealous ...
Repent...Overcome...so they may become "WITH" God.

God Bless,
SBC

seems to me that based on Romans 12:2 it is a duel action.

 

[razzelflabben]

You now are manifesting the same self focused sensitivity that get razzalflabben in trouble.

I did not call you conceited. Read it again:

"That is a lot of words but no Scriptural references given to support that what you speak is any more than your own conceited opinion."

Are there not enough people feeling sorry for themselves in this thread? What I said is not even an insinuation. It is a simple fact of: How do we know that you are not speaking from conceit if you don't provide the Scriptural support to back up your thoughts?

Your last paragraph might be believable but you expect that we should just take your word for it by once again not providing the Scriptural support for your thoughts. Surely you do not ascribe to peoples being gullible and just swallowing your words because you say they are right?

Edit: But maybe you posted that to help razzelflabben see what she does. It is easier for most of us to see our mistakes when others make them because then our emotions are not prematurely excited by our hastily grabbing onto first impressions born of our own paranoia. Because there is no personal attachment.

So maybe God was in control here.

funny story...after I made the post about my father and his pride I was telling my husband that I said it because I saw my father's behavior in two posters on this thread. He agreed based on what he knew was going on and said to me that the next thing that would be brought up is the passage my father loved to use to try to justify his sin, that of the woman being saved through childbirth...sure enough, one of the very next posts was about the woman being saved through childbirth...lol but it's all me and made up in my mind.. .sure, keep telling yourself that if that is how you sleep at night eventually you will be face to face with the living God and have to answer for your judgments of others.

 

[SBC]

Right.

You went onto say, "If you do not comprehend the HUGE change in a man from being naturally Carnal Minded, to becoming Spiritually Minded, you are not at the same distance, as myself."

I understand that to mean, "If one does not comprehend the HUGE change in a man from being naturally Carnal Minded, to becoming Spiritually Minded, that one is not at the same distance, as myself."

See how I took personal offense out of that? I graciously gave you what is called, "The benefit of a doubt", after the example set by our creator and Paul's counsel on love at 1 Corinthians 13:1-8.

Then you continued onto say, "It has nothing to DO with God converting your Carnal Mind, and everything to do with the mans own efforts, by the Power of God, given to a man who HAS become converted."

That made Romans 8:7 come to my mind: "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

That is why we die with Christ. It is the carnal thinking man we allow to die in favor of living by the spirit in Christ. To keep that carnal thinking man alive even a little is like not really having died with Christ and it cannot but hinder us.

It seems you understand that. That is our job. It is our job to die with Christ for only then are we freed from the carnal thinking man in order to really home in on the spirit of God. Until then we live war in our flesh between the spirit and the flesh, and when we don't feel well physically or are pressed by tensions we vacillate back and forth between the spiritual and the carnal causing us to be lukewarm. Revelation 3:16

I believe when we are Converted God does not change our Minds.

However He does Give us the Power for "us" to change our Minds.

HIs Power / HS, dwells in our new hearts, with our new born again spirits.

As Jesus was bodily, the Teacher on Earth, He is still the Teacher, Spiritually, in men, born of God.

Spirit to our spirit, He teaches.

Our job is to listen to our spirit, Over the thoughts of our Minds.

Particularly- concerning spiritual things, behaviors, inasmuch how to deal with things.

I simply use my mind for other things like any Carnal Mind, choosing what to cook, doing logic puzzles, what house to buy Etc.

The spirit of man is to renew his Mind.
And the effort is the man transforms his Mind to BE Christ-like, Spirit-Minded.

Rom 12:2

God Bless
SBC