Christians owning guns specifically for self defense? (Biblical references, insight?)

[Ovlov90]

"When Mr King preached to a frightened Negro crowd in a besieged Montgomery church the other day, it was no new situation for him. Only a few years ago a bomb was tossed outside his living-room and threats to his life have become as common in his mail as messages of support from individuals in all the states. After the first threats against his family, he was tempted to carry a gun and then quickly rejected the idea. "How could I have claimed to be the leader of a non-violence movement then?" he explained. For a brief time his wife took their infant daughter to live in Atlanta, Georgia, but soon returned to Montgomery. The Kings - like so many Negroes in the Deep South - have learnt to live with the threat of violence hanging over them, an uneasy condition in some ways, one is tempted to think, like that of the Jews in Nazi Germany."

Martin Luther King unmoved by death threats - from the archive, 24 May 1961

The story of Martin Luther King Jr. is another example of a heroic man of faith whose weapon alone was the utter dependence on the Word of God.

Yes I agree. I also believed the Black Panthers did no wrong arming themselves as the law permitted. ( About all I was in agreement with them on) But I could not stand before God with one of my family members saying “ you could have stopped them, why did you let them do this to me ?” I speak from experience. Every four weeks like clock work my ex fatherin law would go on an alcohol binge. As time progressed they became more violent. My mother in law recieved 20 some stitches as result from an incident in the road in front of my house. I did try to prevent it peacefully. And failed. I know God allows violence and death to occur to His. Sometimes IDK. To what extent do we protect those in our life? A friend of mine spent 3yrs in prison for manslaughter for killing his best friend who was argueing with his wife. I wasnt there so I cant say but the state felt the threat to life didnt warrant the outcome. Paul was left for dead on several occasions. Jesus did say sell some things and buy a sword. I believe its ok to own firearms for personal protection but am conflicted at the same time. I believe confliction is a sin in itself.

 

[razzelflabben]

He told you an unfortunate story about the child he raised, and you pointed out that you felt he was angry and bitter about the situation and said you would pray about the anger and bitterness you saw in his comments and that you would pray for his son as well.

Now I am not one to be affected by words....but I'm not normal.....yet I can understand how a normal person could take offense to this.

If you are unable to anticipate others reactions to words or unable to empathizes maybe the icons below posts would be a better option in times like these:

let me fill in some back story...the poster in question did something similar previously and I pointed out how his words sounded judgmental...he assured me that even though he quoted me that he was not talking to me. I then assumed he was talking of himself and made a comment of clarification of how I understood him, that is to say I accepted that he was not being judgmental and took the correction he offered. He said nothing about who I assumed he was talking to them...then we come to this post in question in which he refers to anger and such and without anything changing I can only assume that he is referring to himself as he claimed previously to be doing. You know, nothing to clarify. See, this poster has from very early in this thread said judgmental things and when they were pointed out to him he refused to accept them making claims of other people anger, unforgiveness, etc. it's been pretty disturbing really....none the less I gave him the benefit of the doubt which is why I offered the prayer I did...there is no shame in being angry and bitter about something but it is a matter that should be prayed about...I took the poster at his word rather than what it sounded like he wanted people to believe and for that I was told I was being snide and you are now accusing me...what should a person do if not take a person at their word? Please do explain why I should not take this poster at his word and pray according to what he has told me his problem is?

IOW's this is what Buzz considers wise counsel when it comes to others why then should he consider it otherwise when offered to him....? I just assumed that this is the lang. he understands as per all the thread and how he proclaims himself innocent when speaking words that could be viewed as offensive and hurtful. Truth sometimes hurts, at least my words were truthful based on what he said which is better than he offers for others.

People have different ways to communicate...I am just trying to communicate using his lang.

 

[razzelflabben]

Your post 692:




As if you do not know what you are doing.

IMHO genez was right to place you on ignore. That is what I am going to do, also.

I took you at your word when you previously said that when you make comments that sound judgmental you are not talking to the person you quoted but rather talking about yourself. What would you rather I do, take your words that sound judgmental as judgmental with evil motives or take you at your word that you are talking about yourself and not the person you are quoting? it's a simple question the answer of which can end the disagreement.

 

[razzelflabben]

"When Mr King preached to a frightened Negro crowd in a besieged Montgomery church the other day, it was no new situation for him. Only a few years ago a bomb was tossed outside his living-room and threats to his life have become as common in his mail as messages of support from individuals in all the states. After the first threats against his family, he was tempted to carry a gun and then quickly rejected the idea. "How could I have claimed to be the leader of a non-violence movement then?" he explained. For a brief time his wife took their infant daughter to live in Atlanta, Georgia, but soon returned to Montgomery. The Kings - like so many Negroes in the Deep South - have learnt to live with the threat of violence hanging over them, an uneasy condition in some ways, one is tempted to think, like that of the Jews in Nazi Germany."

Martin Luther King unmoved by death threats - from the archive, 24 May 1961

The story of Martin Luther King Jr. is another example of a heroic man of faith whose weapon alone was the utter dependence on the Word of God.

I have no issue with God being our only weapon of defence I just don't see anything in scripture that says we can't or shouldn't defend ourselves....

 

[GenemZ]

Thank you for that information. I had been noticing adds on TV pushing it as something all should take and have been meaning to look deeper into it. That may just be what he needs and I will definitely speak to his doctors about it. Though they have in recent years stopped being willing to discuss the matter so much due to some kind of law they say prohibits it. I would not know much about it except that his original doctors were willing to discuss it with me. But then they probably felt they had to as I was so alarmed by seeing his muscles twitching all over his body as a result of the drugs they were giving him that I was on the verge of suing them. And I made that plain to them. It is a very saddening situation. That is my worst enemy, the sadness can be quite overwhelming as I cannot help but feel there may have been some small things I could have done to prevent it from ever happening, like been a better husband to my children's mother. But I also know I did all I knew how to do. None of us asked to be born into this life so shaped of sin that from our youth on up even what our teachers teach us has been shaped and corrupted of sin, leaving us at a disadvantage.

We are truly prisoners to the bondage caused of sin in this life. Not me alone, but each and every one of us. Thank God that though this body of flesh of mankind undergoes that death we can with God's help be transformed for life in the spirit which will be given a new tent free of that corrupted nature.

That's only one thing he can do... Mineral deficiency of magnesium will cause a break in synapse. Its a very common deficiency with today's foods and brought on by stress, especially if he is being institutionalized. There are many avenues to take. Another for brain health is Acetyl L Carnitine. A whole bunch of stuff is out there to be tried and explored. But... the drug companies own you once you submit to them too much.

And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice
of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee:
for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries
were all nations deceived. Revelation 18:23​

The word translated "sorceries" is pharmakeia... The same word from which we derive pharmacy today.

In most cases, drugs other than short term solutions, are not God's solutions. They do not heal. They only trap to keep you barely alive to keep sending in the money.

 

[razzelflabben]

That's only one thing he can do... Mineral deficiency of magnesium will cause a break in synapse. Its a very common deficiency with today's foods and brought on by stress, especially if he is being institutionalized. There are many avenues to take. Another for brain health is Acetyl L Carnitine. A whole bunch of stuff is out there to be tried and explored. But... the drug companies own you once you submit to them too much.

And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice
of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee:
for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries
were all nations deceived. Revelation 18:23​

The word translated "sorceries" is pharmakeia... The same word from which we derive pharmacy today.

In most cases, drugs other than short term solutions, are not God's solutions. They do not heal. They only trap to keep you barely alive to keep sending in the money.

if you try magnesium make sure it is chelated otherwise it isn't utilized by the body. Some are chelated for absorption speed some for amount. The best of both worlds is malate. Magnesium is not easy to test for because it is stored in the tissues but you know when you have reached your bodies limit because it causes diarrhea if you get too much.

 

[Willing-heart]

I have no issue with God being our only weapon of defence I just don't see anything in scripture that says we can't or shouldn't defend ourselves....

I think anyone who owns a gun should honestly acknowledge that they are capable of taking somebody's life with it intentionally or unintentionally for one reason or the other (either by self defense, accident or even through a motive started by anger, hate, revenge or whatever). In fact, people who own a gun are very capable of taking their own very own life with the use of that very same gun (of course perhaps not intentionally) especially when mental depression kicks in. Knowing full well that a gun can easily kill someone when used, I don't think we should be the one who decide who gets to live or die.

I think the choice to own a gun is down to personal conviction, and personally for me, I am struggling with the concept that a gun would serve as a means to protect me or my loved one knowing full well that God has our very breathe in His hand and His working all things together for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose, to conform them to the likeness of Christ. I really think the way we perceive God has a direct impact on our attitude toward our life circumstances and choices.

“My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever” – Psalm 73:26. What does this verse even means? David here is saying that God is his highest price possession. It means that when we give up the illusion of safety for the promise of security, we can be assured in Christ alone that we have:

• Possession that is unfading;
• Promise that is unfailing;
• Power that cannot be defeated;
• Provider who is limitless.

Personally for me, the safest place in the whole world is in “The Will of God." And knowing that gives me all the comfort I need, so I don't see any other reason to own a gun. God never takes you somewhere where His Grace is not sufficient to sustain you and to empower you to do His will. Why did God in His sovereign plan allow for Ishmael to be born and be a large nation? I am convinced that it was that they may be a constant rebuke to the children of God for their unfaithfulness to Him….

 

[bugkiller]

One thing I don't understand in this thread is those who are con gun ownership fail to understand if guns are denied the righteous, it won't keep them out of the hands of the wicked. Another is I live in the country on a small acreage. I've had a cat (panther/mountain lion) howl for several hours one evening. The noise isn't the problem. It's an asset. The problem is protection of my animals. And yes we shoot bambi out here. A rifle is also used to dispatch dogs with a chicken in their mouth. We do that for food and to protect our gardens they dearly love. I recently had hand to hand combat with squirrels in my chicken coop. Since then my feed bill has gone down and the dogs had a nice lunch.

bugkiller

 

[GenemZ]

if you try magnesium make sure it is chelated otherwise it isn't utilized by the body. Some are chelated for absorption speed some for amount. The best of both worlds is malate. Magnesium is not easy to test for because it is stored in the tissues but you know when you have reached your bodies limit because it causes diarrhea if you get too much.

You have to get a 'hair analysis' to find out your magnesium level. Its stored in human hair. And, yes... chelated magnesium is what to look for.

 

[GenemZ]

One thing I don't understand in this thread is those who are con gun ownership fail to understand if guns are denied the righteous, it won't keep them out of the hands of the wicked. Another is I live in the country on a small acreage. I've had a cat (panther/mountain lion) howl for several hours one evening. The noise isn't the problem. It's an asset. The problem is protection of my animals. And yes we shoot bambi out here. A rifle is also used to dispatch dogs with a chicken in their mouth. We do that for food and to protect our gardens they dearly love. I recently had hand to hand combat with squirrels in my chicken coop. Since then my feed bill has gone down and the dogs had a nice lunch.

bugkiller

My pastor used to jokingly tell us he preferred pigeons over skeet.

 

[Buzz_B]

let me fill in some back story...the poster in question did something similar previously and I pointed out how his words sounded judgmental...he assured me that even though he quoted me that he was not talking to me. I then assumed he was talking of himself and made a comment of clarification of how I understood him, that is to say I accepted that he was not being judgmental and took the correction he offered. He said nothing about who I assumed he was talking to them...then we come to this post in question in which he refers to anger and such and without anything changing I can only assume that he is referring to himself as he claimed previously to be doing. You know, nothing to clarify. See, this poster has from very early in this thread said judgmental things and when they were pointed out to him he refused to accept them making claims of other people anger, unforgiveness, etc. it's been pretty disturbing really....none the less I gave him the benefit of the doubt which is why I offered the prayer I did...there is no shame in being angry and bitter about something but it is a matter that should be prayed about...I took the poster at his word rather than what it sounded like he wanted people to believe and for that I was told I was being snide and you are now accusing me...what should a person do if not take a person at their word? Please do explain why I should not take this poster at his word and pray according to what he has told me his problem is?

IOW's this is what Buzz considers wise counsel when it comes to others why then should he consider it otherwise when offered to him....? I just assumed that this is the lang. he understands as per all the thread and how he proclaims himself innocent when speaking words that could be viewed as offensive and hurtful. Truth sometimes hurts, at least my words were truthful based on what he said which is better than he offers for others.

People have different ways to communicate...I am just trying to communicate using his lang.

Cease making false accusations against me unless you are prepared to back up your claims with specific direct quotes from my posts. And clearly state the post number you took the quote from so that anyone who wishes to do so can go directly to my posts and determine if your perception of it is correct. For you do tend to focus on a few words out of context. And anyone can turn anyone's words into what they were not when ignoring context. But an honest person knows that and therefore tries to be careful not to do that.

Anyone can make unfounded generalized accusations as you are doing. I take back everything I ever said about you being an honest person. You do not know how to be anything more than a critique and a trouble-maker.

The next time you post such things against me I will report you and then you will have to back up your slanders. You just used up the Mr. Nice Guy that was tolerating your insanity.

 

[GenemZ]

Cease making false accusations against me unless you are prepared to back up your claims with specific direct quotes from my posts. And clearly state the post number you took the quote from so that anyone who wishes to do so can go directly to my posts and determine if your perception of it is correct. For you do tend to focus on a few words out of context. And anyone can turn anyone's words into what they were not when ignoring context. But an honest person knows that and therefore tries to be careful not to do that.

Anyone can make unfounded generalized accusations as you are doing. I take back everything I ever said about you being an honest person. You do not know how to be anything more than a critique and a trouble-maker.

The next time you post such things against me I will report you and then you will have to back up your slanders. You just used up the Mr. Nice Guy that was tolerating your insanity.

You do not have to put her on Ignore. With a little discipline, simply ignore her.

We can care less what she might make up about you. But, it does get annoying to watch you two fighting when there is no mommy in the other room to come in and break it up.

 

[Buzz_B]

You do not have to put her on Ignore. With a little discipline, simply ignore her.

We can care less what she might make up about you. But, it does get annoying to watch you two fighting when there is no mommy in the other room to come in and break it up.

I agree. Putting her on ignore is only good when one is logged in anyway. You still see all she says when combing the threads before logging in.

And that will be my last warning to her. If you check back in my posts you will find I warned her to cease doing that once before. But she does not care. She acts as if she should be able to do as she pleases and nothing that she does is ever wrong. Someone has to tell her honestly what she is doing. Her husband can't and you can understand why. It has to come from outsiders.

I ran a web search for her footprints and found her on other sites fighting with others and continuing the same old same old which we see here. She does this everywhere she goes and has offended many on every site she has ever been on.

From here forward she has been told and so I will just hit the report button, for her own sake. She needs to wake up.

 

[GenemZ]

I agree. Putting her on ignore is only good when one is logged in anyway. You still see all she says when combing the threads before logging in.

And that will be my last warning to her. If you check back in my posts you will find I warned her to cease doing that once before. But she does not care. She acts as if she should be able to do as she pleases and nothing that she does is ever wrong. Someone has to tell her honestly what she is doing. Her husband can't and you can understand why. It has to come from outsiders.

I ran a web search for her footprints and found her on other sites fighting with others and continuing the same old same old which we see here. She does this everywhere she goes and has offended many on every site she has ever been on.

From here forward she has been told and so I will just hit the report button, for her own sake. She needs to wake up.

She's winning.. For you are still reacting.

 

[GenemZ]

I think anyone who owns a gun should honestly acknowledge that they are capable of taking somebody's life with it intentionally or unintentionally for one reason or the other..

Why so one sided?

They can acknowledge that they capable of PREVENTING another from taking another's life.

Love protects.

 

[GenemZ]

Thank you for that information. I had been noticing adds on TV pushing it as something all should take and have been meaning to look deeper into it.

I do not believe its PQQ you are seeing advertised.

 

[Buzz_B]

She's winning.. For you are still reacting.

I do not see it as a contest for me to win or lose. I speak honestly to her regardless of what she does.

For a while I held onto a more optimistic approach and honestly believed I saw a measure of honesty in her. And so I tried to appeal to that honesty I thought I saw. But it does not prove to really be there.

Realizing that, my approach toward her will now change. If you wish to see it as if she has won, so be it. You have that right. I on the other hand felt it necessary to make it clear to her why I would ignore her from here forward so that she might be left with something to think about to help her. And I am fully aware of how dangerous that is, for I know man's rules are fickle. How one interprets another person's intentions is as varied as there are grains of sand on a beach.

But it is a Christian obligation to call a sinner's attention to their sin. If they do not do it who will? And with no one speaking up all they ever find is the comfort of false comforters to make them feel OK unconditionally as they are. They become like unwatered seeds where the one with the water just comforts them that they are OK even though dry, instead of pouring water upon them. And there is then no growth. Worse, the sun eventually wilts them away.

Someone has to be willing to die so that others might live. If speaking what needs to be spoken in an environment where in it is risky to speak it means dying at the hands of the many varied perceptions of others, someone has to be willing to die. Even as Christ for us.

 

[Buzz_B]

I do not believe its PQQ you are seeing advertised.

Isn't PQQ that substance they found in jellyfish?

 

[Buzz_B]

And now, genez, think about the footprint in my post 717 as the spiritual footprint of a physical one you spoke much about earlier in this thread. You have said that one has to be willing to die in man's wars for their freedom.

Now, remembering what I expressed in post 717 can you see that dying in a fleshly fight for freedom only saves life temporarily? Can you see that we need to make our death have far greater meaning by dying in a way that helps others to think in godly ways so as to begin to break their bondage to sin and help them be made more and more firm in Christ?

And can you then understand that some of us believe that it is a waste of our life to lay it down in wars of this flesh when there is a so much more important way for us to die on behalf of others? A way that carries with it the hope of helping them toward life-everlasting?

All through history since Christ many have had to face literal death for the sake of that life-saving spiritual message and many have had to die the death over and over again spiritually at the hands of those who would silence them in various ways. That is our real battle. And that is the battle Christ had in mind when he said that he came not to put peace on this earth.

 

[GenemZ]

Isn't PQQ that substance they found in jellyfish?

No.... this is entirely different. What causes the body to age PQQ slows down... and also can repair nerve and brain damage. Very few things can accomplish that feat. Drug companies do not this becoming well known because its a natural substance that is relatively cheap compared to the patent-able, and often times dangerous things they come up with to make big bucks.

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