Christians owning guns specifically for self defense? (Biblical references, insight?)

[Almost there]

"Living by the sword" .... in the context Jesus spoke. Was about living in criminality. Romans 13:4 speaks of God's agent who carries the sword to deal with criminality. Hence.. "Die by the sword."

Peter was acting like a criminal. Imagine a police officer comes to arrest your friend and you shoot at the officer? You then become a criminal. Jesus warned Peter to stop acting like a criminal. Then Jesus much to the amazement to everyone involved, healed the wounded arresting officer as to prevent Peter going to jail.

I think its criminal how so many won't think. They refuse to. And, while emoting conclude with how they feel about what happened, based upon their fantasy image of Jesus. Some of them might as well be worshiping statues of Mary the way they refuse to think with what the context states...and by resisting and refusing to learn the meaning of things that existed at the time the Bible was written.

Criminals at that time "lived by the sword." They did not have guns. Peter was acting like a criminal at the time of Jesus arrest.

I have found that when I stop looking at characters in the bible as "caricatures" and, rather, see them as real people with real emotions, wants, needs and fears - and put myself in their shoes - I much better understand His word. It has modified many of my Christian doctrinal beliefs.

 

[Buzz_B]

What are you doing in this section? JW's found a way to get around the forum rules for the Christians only section, and you are doing a trial run? Sounds that way.

Did the Jehovah Witnesses have a revival and now thing different than they have in the past? What is with you. Playing the Devil's advocate?

Come on... go back to talking to some unknown person when you post. Its real conducive to not being an author of confusion.

...... its down the hall. two doors to the left.

There's that loving Christ-like spirit.

Even Christ's words were wasted on some people. But it was still necessary for those words to be spoken for the words of Gods truths we reject are what judges us. Not the words we add to God's word, they do not judge us, but God's words as they were spoken. It is the act of adding words which judges us but not our failure to heed the added words.

 

[razzelflabben]

"Living by the sword" .... in the context Jesus spoke. Was about living in criminality. Romans 13:4 speaks of God's agent who carries the sword to deal with criminality. Hence.. "Die by the sword."

Peter was acting like a criminal. Imagine a police officer comes to arrest your friend and you shoot at the officer? You then become a criminal. Jesus warned Peter to stop acting like a criminal. Then Jesus much to the amazement to everyone involved, healed the wounded arresting officer as to prevent Peter going to jail.

I think its criminal how so many won't think. They refuse to. And, while emoting conclude with how they feel about what happened, based upon their fantasy image of Jesus. Some of them might as well be worshiping statues of Mary the way they refuse to think with what the context states...and by resisting and refusing to learn the meaning of things that existed at the time the Bible was written.

Criminals at that time "lived by the sword." They did not have guns. Peter was acting like a criminal at the time of Jesus arrest.

And yet you were shown in the context of the account of Peter cutting off the ear of the soldier that Jesus reprimanded him not for being a criminal but because the time for them to take Jesus away had come.

You see, you are doing the very thing you are railing against others for doing....like scripture says, when someone attacks another without cause it's usually because they are projecting their own sin onto others.

Let's look at the passage again...Jesus just talks about the time being upon them and then we have this....
10 Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s servant, cutting off his right ear. (The servant’s name was Malchus.)

11 Jesus commanded Peter, “Put your sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?”

12 Then the detachment of soldiers with its commander and the Jewish officials arrested Jesus. They bound him 13 and brought him first to Annas, who was the father-in-law of Caiaphas, the high priest that year.14 Caiaphas was the one who had advised the Jewish leaders that it would be good if one man died for the people.

So you see, Jesus said nothing about being a criminal, rather He said that it was time for the prophecy to be fulfilled. The same account is found in Matthew 26 and again context shows us that it was about fulfilling prophecy not criminal acts that Jesus reprimanded Peter for.

Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51 With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.

52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”

55 In that hour Jesus said to the crowd, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. 56 But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled.”Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.

Now I know that this context does not support your position but then again, we aren't interested in your position but rather what scripture says.

 

[razzelflabben]

There's that loving Christ-like spirit.

Even Christ's words were wasted on some people. But it was still necessary for those words to be spoken for the words of Gods truths we reject are what judges us. Not the words we add to God's word, they do not judge us, but God's words as they were spoken.

Need I remind you of these two passages....Isaiah 55:11 and Hebrews 4:12

Not to mention these...
Revelation 22:18-19
Deuteronomy 4:2
Proverbs 30:6
Proverbs 30:5-6
Deuteronomy 12:32
Matthew 22:29
Mark 7:13
Genesis 3:1-4

You would be well served to listen carefully to the word of God rather than try to reinvent it.

 

[GenemZ]

There's that loving Christ-like spirit.

BS..... To love Christ is to love truth and to hate evil.

Evil lies against the truth. Evil lies against Jesus Even if the lie is done outwardly in a respectable way that appears to be love. Wolves in sheep's clothing appear to be loving. But, eventually their fruit exposes those hairy legs that will pop out from under the sheep's wool covering when they have to start maneuvering.

 

[Buzz_B]

COBOL IMS DB/DC beginning in 1983, culminating in being an IMS DBA in the mid-90's. I then chased the Y2k remediation cash through the turn of the century.

In the early 2000's I saw an influx of VERY cheap indian contractors and decided that if I was to stay in IT I needed a "communication intensive" position. Since then I've bounced between PM and BA, preferring BA. I've worked and contracted for 18 companies.

One of my "soft*" miracles is how I got into IT in the first place.

*soft - not a "true" miracle in that it didn't defy physical laws. Just an AMAZING chain of coincidences.

I like that,, for I too have had many of those "soft" miracle experiences.

I was cut of from my family and loved ones by distance and lack of a cell phone and while away I used to walk out in the yard and talk to God almost daily. I would tell him how much I loved his beautiful blue sky and the trees all lining the distance and the fascinating birds I would see. My eyes were combing the tree line one day and I stopped and focused on a rusty old water tower. I kind of jokingly said to God, Father you really need to paint that rusty old water tower for it sure detracts from your beautiful tree line. A couple days later I got news that my favorite nephew (age 15, my little brother's only son), had been killed and I was really feeling low. I walked back out in the yard to pray and talk to God and as my eyes were combing the tree line I caught site of that water tower again. It was only about a week that had passed since I jokingly said to God that he should paint that water tower and there it was all freshly painted. And not just any color. I had told him over and over how I love his blue sky and that water tower was painted to a perfect match to the color of the sky.

Miracles don't have to defy what is natural. I could share some I have experienced which did but I don't think I want to share too much here in this environment.

 

[GenemZ]

I have found that when I stop looking at characters in the bible as "caricatures" and, rather, see them as real people with real emotions, wants, needs and fears - and put myself in their shoes - I much better understand His word. It has modified many of my Christian doctrinal beliefs.

Though that is a good way to be... But, even if that is so? You must gain knowledge that will run contrary at times to how "real people feel."

8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts." Isa 55:8-9

Many of the mistakes we make is because we decide to "be realistic." For, God's ways run contrary to anything we see as normal in certain areas of our life and doctrine. Unless a gifted pastor knows how to study and to discover meanings that are obscured by our culture and language usage... we will fail to overcome this world. The way that leads to life is "strait." That word at the time it was translated does not mean "straight." That's just one example.

 

[Buzz_B]

Need I remind you of these two passages....Isaiah 55:11 and Hebrews 4:12

Not to mention these...
Revelation 22:18-19
Deuteronomy 4:2
Proverbs 30:6
Proverbs 30:5-6
Deuteronomy 12:32
Matthew 22:29
Mark 7:13
Genesis 3:1-4

You would be well served to listen carefully to the word of God rather than try to reinvent it.

Beat you to it. Research those texts many times and found that they do not support what you claim. I would discuss it here but I am not allowed to. And besides that, I don't think it would do any good considering to whom I would be speaking.

 

[Almost there]

Though that is a good way to be... But, even if that is so? You must gain knowledge that will run contrary at times to how "real people feel."

8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts." Isa 55:8-9

Many of the mistakes we make is because we decide to "be realistic." For, God's ways run contrary to anything we see as normal in certain areas of our life and doctrine. Unless a gifted pastor knows how to study and to discover meanings that are obscured by our culture and language usage... we will fail to overcome this world. The way that leads to life is "strait." That word at the time it was translated does not mean "straight." That's just one example.

I'm completely with you on that. I'm speaking more to how a person back then would have interpreted Jesus' words or Paul's, within the scope of the culture there. And where this most applies is when scripture may seem confusing or controversial.

 

[razzelflabben]

Beat you to it. Research those texts many times and found that they do not support what you claim. I would discuss it here but I am not allowed to. And besides that, I don't think it would do any good considering to whom I would be speaking.

really, which one is amiss? specifically which one says that 1. God's word is not effective, 2. God's word does not convict, and 3. it is okay with God if we add to His word what is not there?

This is gonna be good....teach me of "wise" teacher where God says that His word is worthless enough that we should add to it what is not there because people don't listen to it anyway....

Your belief that we can add to scripture what is not there is one of many reasons we don't see eye to eye and why scripture identifies you as a false teacher.

 

[GenemZ]

Beat you to it. Research those texts many times and found that they do not support what you claim. I would discuss it here but I am not allowed to. And besides that, I don't think it would do any good considering to whom I would be speaking.

This forum is changed... When you put someone on "Ignore" it totally wipes out their existence. Hence.. seeing you talking to yourself. It does not show to whom you are commenting to. Its what I would call a glitch in this format. It probably needs to be changed. In the past you could see the person another is commenting to, even if that person is on the Ignore list. Sorry for the confusion. That was just solved.

 

[GenemZ]

I'm completely with you on that. I'm speaking more to how a person back then would have interpreted Jesus' words or Paul's, within the scope of the culture there. And where this most applies is when scripture may seem confusing or controversial.

There are a few good men who will be not only languages scholars... but historians as well. They can teach what the words spoken meant to the hearers. We have no idea why certain words said had great impact and effect on those hearing. We become merely casual listeners not realizing the great challenge or confrontation that was taking place. Until we learn these things we are out of the loop.

If there is a real God in heaven... He will want us to know these truths. He will provide. In His timing they will come our way, as long as we have been seeking in the power of the Holy Spirit's leading.

 

[razzelflabben]

There are a few good men who will be not only languages scholars... but historians as well. They can teach what the words spoken meant to the hearers. We have no idea why certain words said had great impact and effect on those hearing. We become merely casual listeners not realizing the great challenge or confrontation that was taking place. Until we learn these things we are out of the loop.

If there is a real God in heaven... He will want us to know these truths. He will provide. In His timing they will come our way, as long as we have been seeking in the power of the Holy Spirit's leading.

Scripture tells us that the word of God is alive and active...Hebrews 4:12...IOW's where culture and history aid in our understanding it is not necessary to knowing what God needs us to know otherwise He would have said, "My word is reliant on history and culture" not "My word is active and alive"

 

[Buzz_B]

This forum is changed... When you put someone on "Ignore" it totally wipes out their existence. Hence.. seeing you talking to yourself. It does not show to whom you are commenting to. Its what I would call a glitch in this format. It probably needs to be changed. In the past you could see the person another is commenting to, even if that person is on the Ignore list. Sorry for the confusion. That was just solved.

Thank you for explaining that. The quote contained in your post was meant for razzelflabben. I don't care if all I said was that water was wet, that woman would argue it is dry.

 

[Buzz_B]

Need I remind you of these two passages....Isaiah 55:11 and Hebrews 4:12

Not to mention these...
Revelation 22:18-19
Deuteronomy 4:2
Proverbs 30:6
Proverbs 30:5-6
Deuteronomy 12:32
Matthew 22:29
Mark 7:13
Genesis 3:1-4

You would be well served to listen carefully to the word of God rather than try to reinvent it.

I had edited the following into post 582 as the last sentence, "It is the act of adding words which judges us but not our failure to heed the added words."

 

[razzelflabben]

Thank you for explaining that. The quote contained in your post was meant for razzelflabben. I don't care if all I said was that water was wet, that woman would argue it is dry.

lol I was just thinking the same thing about you...I mean I posted some passages and told you not to forget about what they say and you argued without even knowing what I saw in the passages....that is some heavy duty desire for you to argue with me.

 

[razzelflabben]

I had edited the following into post 582 as the last sentence, "It is the act of adding words which judges us but not our failure to heed the added words."

that is better, but God alone Judges us...

That being said, I still don't get what your objection to the passages that tell us not to add to the word of God is...I mean your claim is that they don't tell us not to add to the word of God...please show your justification for your claim as you were asked to do.

 

[Buzz_B]

BS..... To love Christ is to love truth and to hate evil.

Evil lies against the truth. Evil lies against Jesus Even if the lie is done outwardly in a respectable way that appears to be love. Wolves in sheep's clothing appear to be loving. But, eventually their fruit exposes those hairy legs that will pop out from under the sheep's wool covering when they have to start maneuvering.

We agree on that.

When I said, "There's that loving Christ-like spirit", you do realize who I was speaking to, right?

Your quote here above shows you have the ability to understand it.

 

[Buzz_B]

that is better, but God alone Judges us...

That being said, I still don't get what your objection to the passages that tell us not to add to the word of God is...I mean your claim is that they don't tell us not to add to the word of God...please show your justification for your claim as you were asked to do.

No, I do not claim that. I meant that your comprehension of what I had said meant you were not properly applying the counsel in connection with me.

Just a simple misunderstanding. My fault for editing in the clarification to 582 too late. In 588 I did not realize you had not picked up on that edit.

 

[razzelflabben]

We agree on that.

When I said, "There's that loving Christ-like spirit", you do realize who I was speaking to, right?

Your quote here above shows you have the ability to understand it.

lol you guys are comical when you try so hard to take the place of God