Christians owning guns specifically for self defense? (Biblical references, insight?)

[Buzz_B]

That's all fine. But what has that got to do with having to deal with criminality in this world?

"If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies,
there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. " Exodus 22:2

That is a very good example of why one who is not able to think using the spiritually developed mind of Christ which can only be had through coming to life in his body, lives in jeopardy of compounding sin on top of sin.

You know full well that many will just take that to feel free to kill under certain circumstances with no hint of conscience. But if one has already so deadened their conscience in that regard they most likely would see no problem with being the judge, jury, and executioner in certain situations like as that particular one.

Any deadening of our conscience is one step further apart from God. And there is no hint in that verse that it is OK to intentionally slay a thief, even in the night season. Every criminal one kills is one person who might have repented and come to Christ had he lived on to see more days. And for a Christian whose main interest should be bringing people to Christ that they may be healed of their putrid spiritual diseases of mind and heart and become a treasured brother, it is inexcusable to promote ideas which make it easier for the many to deaden their consciences even further than their consciences already are, pushing them even further away from God and the Son.

So long as there is breath in one's body, whether they be the criminal or the one pushing criminals further away from God and the Son, it is not too late to repent and begin a new legacy.

Edit: I think I would like to revise that last paragraph just a bit:

So long as there is breath in one's body, whether they be the criminal or the one pushing criminals and others concerned with defending themselves further away from God and the Son, it is not too late to repent and begin a new legacy.

 

[jovanovic]

i use my fists in self defence .

 

[Buzz_B]

i use my fists in self defence .

often times we find people using Jesus' actions when he cleared the temple of the money changers as a part of their proof that there are times when roughing up others is an acceptable self-defense. But they tend to not notice that account does not specifically say that Jesus laid his hands with violence upon any of those changers of money in that account at John 2:13-17. It is far more likely that Jesus used the cords he made as tools to inspire their fear so as to get the response he was looking for, that they would leave out, and he used those cords also to disperse their oxen and sheep, running their product out of the temple with them.

Be that as it may be, that temple was representative of God's house wherein his Father gathered people to him for spiritual edification, offerings of thanks-giving, and presentation and acceptance of atonement. That singular temple represent the one body of Christ which today is our spiritual one temple. And what Jesus there illustrated to us is the fervent zeal we ought to have for keeping the body of Christ as our temple of God, holy and free of man's sinful flesh with its vile practices. So that is really quite a stretch from there to our everyday self-defense situations.

There was a time when I sanctioned the use of violence in certain situations. I too practiced to become proficient with my hands and feet and fists because i felt it necessary to protect myself having been brutalized by others more than a few times when younger. And that seemed to protect me for a time. But I have found that getting old is like being young when it comes to ones vulnerability and others preying upon them. As an older man I have lived by myself and had break-ins which I struggled for a bit to handle. But I observed that most of those who cased me and would do that sort of thing to me were people whom I had met while out and around the area I lived in. So I tried a different approach. The more they did to me the more pleasant I became to them. Romans 12:21

The last break-in they took my TV and VCR and a few other little odds and ends. I had actually begun paying one of them to do chores around my place for some time before that break-in. When they showed up for work I told them what happened. But I said that while it did make my finanances a bit tougher on me and it saddened me that they would do that to a friend, I was not going to report it to the police. The very next day they all came back carrying the things they had stolen from me, lead by the one who was working for me. They returned it all and apologized and we had a meal together and I never again had problems with them.

I know that it does not always work that way. But what a joy it was to experience it when it did. They were motivated in part by drugs and the desire for drug money. Two of the young men who did that to me ended up getting treatment and that last I knew had good jobs and were doing OK. I have since moved away from there and so don't see them any more. But I just want you to know that there is a reward of fulfillment to be found in trying to take the high road to deal with these things. That reward includes being able to maintain a good conscience in the sight of God.

 

[Shempster]

He does not want us to be lame and target practice for criminals either. Name one free nation today that did not win its freedom without their military. Name one?

There are none. You are correct that killing off the perceived enemy nets a more peaceful existence.

 

[GenemZ]

That is a very good example of why one who is not able to think using the spiritually developed mind of Christ which can only be had through coming to life in his body, lives in jeopardy of compounding sin on top of sin.

You have yet to realize what the mind of Christ IS!

Matthew 4:4! READ IT!

"But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live on bread alone,
but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.’”​

The OT Scriptures was what enabled Jesus to rebuke and reprove Satan himself.

Jesus was the walking living Torah! He was teaching Jews how to be good Jews. Because of the coming Cross, certain things found in the Law would be changed because the Cross was the fulfillment. But,not one dot or tittel was to be changed otherwise. We need to keep in mind, the Torah's civil Law was God's thinking to man, but only was demanded of the land of Israel. Yet, any future nations that followed this law for their role model has prospered throughout history.

Do me a favor. Get killed by a criminal. Then... we will see what religious psychosis does with fuzzy logic theology. You are working with emotionally driven fuzzy theology. It makes no sense because plain spoken simple versus stand in opposition to your passive give-up-itis. Sorry. We all go through it until we can gain access to the teachers who know better and we do not get arrogant against them when they correct us with God's Word.

"If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies,
there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. " Exodus 22:2​

That was not nullified on the Cross. You are nullifying something that you should not.

 

[razzelflabben]

The only teacher we should listen to is the Holy Spirit as testified and in agreement with the totality of scripture.

 

[GenemZ]

The only teacher we should listen to is the Holy Spirit as testified and in agreement with the totality of scripture.

That's why we have all these "spiritual" Christians all disagreeing with what "their" Holy Spirit tells them.
This is war. War is unfair. Its dirty... And, without God's grace, no one can win.

If you are not correctable.. Its not the Holy Spirit that guides you. And, we all need to be corrected from time to time. For His ways are not our ways. And, there is a way that seems right to a man which leads to death (spiritual death)...

"Every Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof,
for correction, and for instruction in righteousness." 2 Timothy 3:16
​

We all will need correction from time to time if we are to ever reach maturity in Christ. For His ways are not our ways. A good teacher can anger us at times when the Word properly taught shows us what fools we would be if left to our own understanding... I've been there. It can be frightening to learn that having confidence about something is no indicator of being correct. But, being corrected leads to a confidence that the natural man can not comprehend. Stubbornness and being hard headed is not conviction as many assume it to be.

 

[GenemZ]

often times we find people using Jesus' actions when he cleared the temple of the money changers as a part of their proof that there are times when roughing up others is an acceptable self-defense.

2 A time to be born,
And a time to die;
A time to plant,
And a time to pluck what is planted;
3 A time to kill,
And a time to heal;
A time to break down,
And a time to build up;
4 A time to weep,
And a time to laugh;
A time to mourn,
And a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones,
And a time to gather stones;
A time to embrace,
And a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to gain,
And a time to lose;
A time to keep,
And a time to throw away;
7 A time to tear,
And a time to sew;
A time to keep silence,
And a time to speak;
8 A time to love,
And a time to hate;
A time of war,
And a time of peace.

 

[sparow]

This is a very hot topic that I am sure many have noticed. Both in Christendom and also outside of it as well. I have a stance on this, and I know there are many different stances. I know of people personally, that are believers that feel that we should have weapons in our home for defense, and also those that do not believe we should defend in a way that brings bodily harm to anyone? It seems that this is a topic that is extremely controversial.

I am interested to know if there are any other believers that feel as if they would not own a gun or a weapon in self defense, and why. I am also interested in knowing from the other perspective, those that are for owning them and do own guns and weapons, and why? Or even if you desire to not own any for that purpose, but are not against someone owning them?

If a person was perfect he would leave the matter in God's hand; I do not believe there is problem with defending oneself, except that this requires perfect judgements and decisions which would not happen in most cases.

 

[razzelflabben]

That's why we have all these "spiritual" Christians all disagreeing with what "their" Holy Spirit tells them.
This is war. War is unfair. Its dirty... And, without God's grace, no one can win.

If you are not correctable.. Its not the Holy Spirit that guides you. And, we all need to be corrected from time to time. For His ways are not our ways. And, there is a way that seems right to a man which leads to death (spiritual death)...

"Every Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof,
for correction, and for instruction in righteousness." 2 Timothy 3:16
​

We all will need correction from time to time if we are to ever reach maturity in Christ. For His ways are not our ways. A good teacher can anger us at times when the Word properly taught shows us what fools we would be if left to our own understanding... I've been there. It can be frightening to learn that having confidence about something is no indicator of being correct. But, being corrected leads to a confidence that the natural man can not comprehend. Stubbornness and being hard headed is not conviction as many assume it to be.

Now, why didn't you finish the teaching? II Timothy 2:15 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. See it isn't enough to be teachable, or to use scripture if we insist on inflating the word to something it does NOT say Which is why it is so important to allow the HS to be our teacher because the HS will always be in agreement with the intent of God when He gave the scriptures to us. In fact, I wonder why my words have offended so many when all I did was show what the context of the passages in question say...? Could it be that some here are offended because they were corrected by good hermeneutics? good exegesis?

 

[razzelflabben]

If a person was perfect he would leave the matter in God's hand; I do not believe there is problem with defending oneself, except that this requires perfect judgements and decisions which would not happen in most cases.

which is why we are to grow in the Lord and learn to trust Him isn't it? I mean, wouldn't leaning on Him in such a situation and discovering His strength in our weakness be a great example of God's leading us to grow ever more dependant on Him and trusting Him no matter our situation?

 

[GenemZ]

Now, why didn't you finish the teaching? II Timothy 2:15 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. See it isn't enough to be teachable, or to use scripture if we insist on inflating the word to something it does NOT say Which is why it is so important to allow the HS to be our teacher because the HS will always be in agreement with the intent of God when He gave the scriptures to us. In fact, I wonder why my words have offended so many when all I did was show what the context of the passages in question say...? Could it be that some here are offended because they were corrected by good hermeneutics? good exegesis?

Some will wonder.. Do you hear voices? Is that your idea of the Holy Spirit teaching you? Some think that is the way. Just want to clarify for some here.

I learn from those who follow very strict hermenuetics.

Isagogics.. Categories... and Exegesis.

Many Christians find it too tedious to follow, so I do not always recommend it. But, its the only way for the Truth to get out with accuracy. Then its up to those who learn from the methodology to repackage how it is presented for easy consumption. Then if they want proof? They are to be handed over to those who teach on that level. Very few do. Very few are capable. God does not want many who are (Jm 3:1)

"Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know
that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness."​

Note! If we are being truly led of the Spirit? Not many of us would end up becoming teachers. Though too many do these days. That indicates what? That many are not really being led of the Spirit, though many feel 'inspired' to teach others.

Many false teachings inundates the body of Christ today for that reason. All sure that God is leading them. What does that leave us with? 2 Tim4:3!

"For the time will come when they will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers (not a few) to say what their itching ears want to hear." ​

That is why we are in the mess we find today.

And, Jesus warned (Mat 7:13-14) that out of the many who believe and are saved? Only a few will find it.

Finding it by fighting (through the BS) and breaking through to the true way (by grace and knowledge) to find oneself eventually to be walking into experiencing the "Life more abundantly."

Many of the believers will instead seek out the easy 'broad and wide way" that offers many options with something that will sound right to each believer's own way of seeing things... and will sadly end up finding in the day of evaluation, that all their works will destroyed by fire when the Lord tests our works in His fire.

There is only one foundation for all. That being, Faith in Christ!

But? What happens after we are saved?

" For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid,
which is Jesus Christ.

If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood,
hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day
will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the
quality of each person’s work.

If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved
—even though only as one escaping through the flames." 1 Cor 3:11-15

​

We can not lose our salvation. Yet, we can lose the eternal rewards that God has been storing for us since before the foundations of the earth!

We should fear becoming self confident and smug in what we come to believe. What we believe should eventually by grace, provide us with a stability and confidence that requires no self willing on our part to maintain. Peace like a Rock.

Few find it. You have Jesus' word on it. Few can really exegete. Pseudo exegetes abound. Even the Watchtower and the RCC have their band of exegetes.

 

[Buzz_B]

You have yet to realize what the mind of Christ IS!

Matthew 4:4! READ IT!

"But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live on bread alone,
but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.’”​

The OT Scriptures was what enabled Jesus to rebuke and reprove Satan himself.

Jesus was the walking living Torah! He was teaching Jews how to be good Jews. Because of the coming Cross, certain things found in the Law would be changed because the Cross was the fulfillment. But,not one dot or tittel was to be changed otherwise. We need to keep in mind, the Torah's civil Law was God's thinking to man, but only was demanded of the land of Israel. Yet, any future nations that followed this law for their role model has prospered throughout history.

Do me a favor. Get killed by a criminal. Then... we will see what religious psychosis does with fuzzy logic theology. You are working with emotionally driven fuzzy theology. It makes no sense because plain spoken simple versus stand in opposition to your passive give-up-itis. Sorry. We all go through it until we can gain access to the teachers who know better and we do not get arrogant against them when they correct us with God's Word.

"If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies,
there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. " Exodus 22:2​

That was not nullified on the Cross. You are nullifying something that you should not.

Thank you for you concern about me.

That passage at Exodus 22:2 does not exactly say what most of our Bibles' claim it and the next verse or so after it says. Our translators have added the thought, "there shall be no guilt", and they have added the word, "shed" or "guilt" making the word, "blood", "boodshed" or "bloodguilt."

It seems that being as all of the surrounding verses both before and after verses 2 and 3 are dealing with laying forth the required reparations for the criminal and speak nothing about the innocent party's obligations, that it is a bit out of place to suddenly turn verses 2 and 3 toward the innocent party's guilt or innocence.

It could be that the blood being referred to is the blood which would be offered by atonement sacrifice for the criminal. That would keep the attention focused on the criminal's reparations just as the bulk of the surrounding text.

Never-the-less, as one that as a young child went through much violence, such at about 12 years of age being drug down a hallway to a rear bedroom in a trailer by the hair of my head by two high school seniors who then severely beat and sexually molested me, I find it rather amazing that I, though for very good reason having passed through your same hatred for criminals, have grown greater compassion than you who have likely not suffered to the extremes that I have in my life.

But maybe you have suffered as I have, or perhaps even more than I have, and God has just not finished helping you through the trauma it left your reasoning marked with.

Whatever, I pray you will eventually allow God to help you past those things so that they might cease to color your beliefs and your reasoning.

Everyone in this life has a measure of PTSD whether not they realize it so that they might negate it from influencing their thinking.

 

[Buzz_B]

2 A time to be born,
And a time to die;
A time to plant,
And a time to pluck what is planted;
3 A time to kill,
And a time to heal;
A time to break down,
And a time to build up;
4 A time to weep,
And a time to laugh;
A time to mourn,
And a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones,
And a time to gather stones;
A time to embrace,
And a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to gain,
And a time to lose;
A time to keep,
And a time to throw away;
7 A time to tear,
And a time to sew;
A time to keep silence,
And a time to speak;
8 A time to love,
And a time to hate;
A time of war,
And a time of peace.

I would like to encourage you to back up a number of verses into the previous chapter and to finish that chapter to its end, asking yourself if Solomon is speaking of the plight of imperfect man and his struggles or if he is setting out a life of righteousness for us to live by.

Enough said, I will leave that to you and just pray for your understanding to grow.

 

[razzelflabben]

Some will wonder.. Do you hear voices? Is that your idea of the Holy Spirit teaching you? Some think that is the way. Just want to clarify for some here.

I learn from those who follow very strict hermenuetics.

Isagogics.. Categories... and Exegesis.

Many Christians find it too tedious to follow, so I do not always recommend it. But, its the only way for the Truth to get out with accuracy. Then its up to those who learn from the methodology to repackage how it is presented for easy consumption. Then if they want proof? They are to be handed over to those who teach on that level. Very few do. Very few are capable. God does not want many who are (Jm 3:1)

"Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know
that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness."​

Note! If we are being truly led of the Spirit? Not many of us would end up becoming teachers. Though too many do these days. That indicates what? That many are not really being led of the Spirit, though many feel 'inspired' to teach others.

Many false teachings inundates the body of Christ today for that reason. All sure that God is leading them. What does that leave us with? 2 Tim4:3!

"For the time will come when they will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers (not a few) to say what their itching ears want to hear." ​

That is why we are in the mess we find today.

And, Jesus warned (Mat 7:13-14) that out of the many who believe and are saved? Only a few will find it.

Finding it by fighting (through the BS) and breaking through to the true way (by grace and knowledge) to find oneself eventually to be walking into experiencing the "Life more abundantly."

Many of the believers will instead seek out the easy 'broad and wide way" that offers many options with something that will sound right to each believer's own way of seeing things... and will sadly end up finding in the day of evaluation, that all their works will destroyed by fire when the Lord tests our works in His fire.

There is only one foundation for all. That being, Faith in Christ!

But? What happens after we are saved?

" For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid,
which is Jesus Christ.

If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood,
hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day
will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the
quality of each person’s work.

If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved
—even though only as one escaping through the flames." 1 Cor 3:11-15

​

We can not lose our salvation. Yet, we can lose the eternal rewards that God has been storing for us since before the foundations of the earth!

We should fear becoming self confident and smug in what we come to believe. What we believe should eventually by grace, provide us with a stability and confidence that requires no self willing on our part to maintain. Peace like a Rock.

Few find it. You have Jesus' word on it. Few can really exegete. Pseudo exegetes abound. Even the Watchtower and the RCC have their band of exegetes.

lol your post makes it sound like you are 1. judging me without cause and 2. wanting a fight rather than discussion therefore I will simply respond to this as follows.

As to your question of me personally...1. I study scripture full time and that study goes something like this.
I quiet myself and ask God with a humble heart to reveal to me what it is that He wants me to know from the days study...sometimes this is a quick process sometimes not so quick in that it involves quietness before God in humility.

Then I begin study...that study involves in varying order
read for comprehension
word study
context
context of the totality of the bible
cross referrences
more prayer
cultural understanding
personal experience as it applies to the topic, as in testing the topic...let's see, an example might be if I am studying Biblical marriage, applying the things I learn to my marriage and watch God work
testing the things I have learned through both experience as above and challenge of others ideas because honestly if I am hearing God's intended message it will hold up to challenge.
I submit it to more challenge
Discuss it with other scholars and consider what they say and pray about it

and if another thing comes up that I can use to challenge the understanding I apply it as well. So you see there are many levels of protection I use to avoid being deceived as to what it says.

I have spent over 50 years learning this way and the last 12 or so years I have applied this method for 40 or more hours a week. Currently I cut back to 20-30 hours a week to apply myself to another project that God is calling me to and all this is because God called me to do so and confirmed that that calling in a way I could not avoid. I easily study 700 passages a week that are all related somehow to the same topic of study at the moment therefore I assure that the understanding is consistent with the totality of scripture.

Now about teaching specifically. Though I know I do teach I do not consider myself a teacher and yet even the world has recognized the gift of teaching within me. As in more than a talent but an actual gift. Many people both in the church and out of the church have commented about how my teaching is beyond the norm, that is not just a talent but beyond. I take it very seriously which is why I put so much effort into making sure that my understanding is correct. Personally I don't care what any teacher says about any topic except for the HS through a careful study of the Word as it is rightly divided for me by God Himself.

Now, what else do you want to try to argue with me about?

 

[GenemZ]

Thank you for you concern about me.

You are not my concern. You're the Lord's concern. My concern is being accurate in truth.

You can do as you wish..... (as you know you will)

 

[razzelflabben]

You are not my concern. You're the Lord's concern. My concern is being accurate in truth.

You can do as you wish..... (as you know you will)

and yet I showed you how accurate I was and the great lengths I go to to make sure I am accurate and you still seem to want to accuse me because you either don't take time to listen or you simply assert that we disagree....in fact, you have not even yet offered challenge to the context that I pointed out to you and what that means to the topic of discussion...what does your silence mean? Where is your challenge to the context?

 

[GenemZ]

lol your post makes it sound like you are 1. judging me without cause and 2. wanting a fight rather than discussion therefore I will simply respond to this as follows.

I was actually trying to keep others from possibly judging you because your statement was ambiguous.
For, I said... "Some will wonder.. Do you hear voices? Is that your idea of the Holy Spirit teaching you? Some think that is the way. Just want to clarify for some here.

As to your question of me personally...1. I study scripture full time and that study goes something like this.

I see.... you are only accountable to yourself and the translations you read from... and the word studies. That is OK if you are a young believer. For it should cause you to have a good number of question that you can not answer. So, when the answers from from someone with the genuine gift to teach you will be appreciative of how God works through his chosen vessels who the Holy Spirit gave the gift to teach.

"And He personally gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, for the training of the saints in the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ." Eph 4:11-12

Now.. with the concern of getting too technical. I hope I am wrong about that. Here is a more accurate extraction from what the Greek told the Greek reader at the time of writing.

For (pros) the general purpose of 'training and equipping'/perfecting
the saints (for combat) . . . for (eis) the categorical purpose of the
occupation/vocation of the ministry (for the future pastor-teachers
who are to learn under another mature pastor-teacher) and for (eis)
the categorical purpose of construction/edification (the purpose of building
up the believers with an 'edification complex of the soul') of the 'body of
Christ' ​

Note: There is a switch of prepositions in the Greek from 'pros' to 'eis' .

Both prepositions mean 'for' - but it demands that the one knowing Greek to recognize that there is a switching to a portion of the congregation, not all the congregation.

When the Holy Spirit determined each believers gifts, only some will have the occupation or vocation of the ministry. The 'pros' indicates the general statement. The 'eis' breaks that phrase into categories.

Did know that already from your leaning technique?

We all do. You need a good pastor teacher. One with lots of patience and perseverance to endure the resistance of some in his congregation who feel they can do it on their own. Eventually they should become spiritually autonomous... but, always in need of a good pastor teacher, unless they find themselves having the same gift and having become competent by grace.

Up until now you may have been exposed to pastors not well equipped to teach. In that case, you probably feel you can do just as good a job as they can.


Wishing you a very nice Day...

 

[Buzz_B]

You are not my concern. You're the Lord's concern. My concern is being accurate in truth.

You can do as you wish..... (as you know you will)

"Am I my brother's keeper!" Who was it that exclaimed that?

James 5:19-20 "Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."

We can see the principle is incorporated here:1 Corinthians 10:28-29 "But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof: Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?"

Do you really believe it OK to not have concern for others? Do you then preach to others merely to show you are superior to them? Or do you preach to them out of love for them? Can we love anyone we have no concern for? Are we not supposed to even have concern for God in we care that his ways be applied in our lives and the lives of all he would desire to have saved?

 

[razzelflabben]

I was actually trying to keep others from possibly judging you because your statement was ambiguous.
For, I said... "Some will wonder.. Do you hear voices? Is that your idea of the Holy Spirit teaching you? Some think that is the way. Just want to clarify for some here.

Nice try to dodge your own posts since the title and the OP ask for scripture and the idea of the HS teaching us is straight out of scripture. Oh well, your posts have been...shall we say...less than acceptable throughout the entire thread...that is to say they have been full of opinions, personal interpretations, personal attacks and accusations but have lacked challenge to serious biblical interpretation. Oh well.

I see.... you are only accountable to yourself and the translations you read from... and the word studies. That is OK if you are a young believer. For it should cause you to have a good number of question that you can not answer. So, when the answers from from someone with the genuine gift to teach you will be appreciative of how God works through his chosen vessels who the Holy Spirit gave the gift to teach.

hum...I read from many different translations and when necessary go back to the original greek or hebrew as per word study...so again more accusations and false assertions rather than simply challenging the context you were shown...apparently you are such a "gifted teacher" you don't even know what word study is...how strange...really really strang that someone so learned doesn't even know what word study is.

"And He personally gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, for the training of the saints in the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ." Eph 4:11-12

Now.. with the concern of getting too technical. I hope I am wrong about that. Here is a more accurate extraction from what the Greek told the Greek reader at the time of writing.

For (pros) the general purpose of 'training and equipping'/perfecting
the saints (for combat) . . . for (eis) the categorical purpose of the
occupation/vocation of the ministry (for the future pastor-teachers
who are to learn under another mature pastor-teacher) and for (eis)
the categorical purpose of construction/edification (the purpose of building
up the believers with an 'edification complex of the soul') of the 'body of
Christ' ​

Note: There is a switch of prepositions in the Greek from 'pros' to 'eis' .

Both prepositions mean 'for' - but it demands that the one knowing Greek to recognize that there is a switching to a portion of the congregation, not all the congregation.

When the Holy Spirit determined each believers gifts, only some will have the occupation or vocation of the ministry. The 'pros' indicates the general statement. The 'eis' breaks that phrase into categories.

another truly funny thing about you and your posts is that you disagree with me by saying the exact same thing I previously said...the reason that it is so funny is because a gifted teacher knows better than to try to play that game of trying to belittle their students in such a prideful and arrogant way but rather they know that as scripture says as well that we are to encourage one another not try to puff ourselves us as you continue to pretend to do. So...how about challenging the context of the passages that apply to the topic at hand and stop with all the non sense you are spewing here?

Did know that already from your leaning technique?

did I know what? What I said before you did? lol what a strange question to ask me.

We all do. You need a good pastor teacher. One with lots of patience and perseverance to endure the resistance of some in his congregation who feel they can do it on their own. Eventually they should become spiritually autonomous... but, always in need of a good pastor teacher, unless they find themselves having the same gift and having become competent by grace.

Up until now you may have been exposed to pastors not well equipped to teach. In that case, you probably feel you can do just as good a job as they can.

lol I have been exposed to some very gifted teachers but what does any of that have to do with the OP question other than to tell us that my calling by God has bruised your ego and you want to put me in my place for doing so...see, the problem is that when God calls someone He also equips them so all of these personal attacks are ones you levie against God and His choice in calling me not on me at all. I personally wouldn't want to be the one issuing such attacks on God but it is your choice to make and not mine.

Now, are you ready to challenge the context I showed you for the topic of discussion or is your personal attacks going to allow us to assume that you have to argument just a bruised ego to offer the discussion?