Christians Over Here Please

[S Walch]

Exactly!

Infact, that was my first ever thought when I first read that in Matthew, that Jesus was refering to Psalm 22 to remind them of it

 

[NOTW]

Exactly!

Infact, that was my first ever thought when I first read that in Matthew, that Jesus was refering to Psalm 22 to remind them of it

Yup, too bad they were too busy playing poker on Jesus' garments!

 

[Islam_mulia]

ء

As you might know, Jesus had two natures (Divine and Human). He speaks through each one as the situation requires. For example, when He healed someone he said: "Your faith has healed you!"
No one can say that except God!

But when He was on the cross, He said: "My God, my God, why have You forsaken me" which came from his human nature​

That is purely your INTERPRETATION. Jesus is only a human, a prophet of God.

I cannot see how "Your faith has healed you!" implies he is divine.

 

[ALRAJY]

As you might know, Jesus had two natures (Divine and Human)

Hummm !! Are they Separate/Combined natures ? And if He had them both on Earth, what Nature was that in the Heavens ?

He speaks through each one as the situation requires. For example, when He healed someone he said: "Your faith has healed you!" No one can say that except God!

Situations "Schizophrenia" is the Only thing I can think Of, Pardon me.
Except GOD !! Really ? I kind of Heard it from my Teacher saying "Your Study has rescued You", but definitly He is not GOD

But when He was on the cross, He said: "My God, my God, why have You forsaken me" which came from his human nature

Was He Crucified & Killed in His Human Nature (Man)/Divine Nature(GOD)/Both (MAN & GOD) Natures ?

Questions Need to be Answered:

* If Jesus (pbuh) is part of a divine Trinity which makes up the essence of GOD Almighty, and if this GOD is ONE GOD and not THREE GODs, and if Jesus (pbuh) died on the cross, then what happened to God Almighty?

* Did the Trinity die also, or was a third of the Trinity ripped away from the whole, then tortured, killed, and sent to hell for 3 days, while the remaining two thirds of God? remained in it's crippled form a safe distance away?

* Who was overseeing the heavens and the earth while all of this was happening? A crippled Trinity? No one?

* If I am made up of Heart, Mind, and Soul, and one of them dies; what happens to the rest of me? Are they ONE or THREE?

* If God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are three names for the same being, and not three separate gods, then "The Death of Jesus" is just another way of saying "The death of God the 'Father'" which is also another way of saying "The death of the Holy Ghost"

* Most Importantly is to remember that My Shoes consists Of a Lace, a Base & a Cover. Same with God

Kind Regards

 

[NOTW]

That is purely your INTERPRETATION. Jesus is only a human, a prophet of God.

I cannot see how "Your faith has healed you!" implies he is divine.

That is not purely my interpretaion, but, infact, that is the christian belief!

As for how "Your faith has healed you" implies He is divine, let me ask you one question: who forgives sins?

 

[NOTW]

Hummm !! Are they Separate/Combined natures ? And if He had them both on Earth, what Nature was that in the Heavens ?

No matter how much I explain this, you'll still argue about it!
Read my reply to your next quote to find the answers.

"Schizophrenia" is the Only thing I can think Of, Pardon me.
Except GOD !! Really ? I kind of Heard it from my Teacher saying "Your Study has rescued You", but definitly He is not GOD

Was He Crucified & Killed in His Human Nature (Man)/Divine Nature(GOD)/Both (MAN & GOD) Natures ?

Questions Need to be Answered:

* If Jesus (pbuh) is part of a divine Trinity which makes up the essence of GOD Almighty, and if this GOD is ONE GOD and not THREE GODs, and if Jesus (pbuh) died on the cross, then what happened to God Almighty?

* Did the Trinity die also, or was a third of the Trinity ripped away from the whole, then tortured, killed, and sent to hell for 3 days, while the remaining two thirds of God? remained in it's crippled form a safe distance away?

* Who was overseeing the heavens and the earth while all of this was happening? A crippled Trinity? No one?

* If I am made up of Heart, Mind, and Soul, and one of them dies; what happens to the rest of me? Are they ONE or THREE?

* If God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are three names for the same being, and not three separate gods, then "The Death of Jesus" is just another way of saying "The death of God the 'Father'" which is also another way of saying "The death of the Holy Ghost"

* Most Importantly is to remember that My Shoes consists Of a Lace, a Base & a Cover. Same with God

Kind Regards

According to your logic and ways of comprehending, God is capable of doing whatever He wants!
Here is another way of putting it (I have started another thread in the past and tried to relocate it, but I couldn't find it, but here is the answer to your questions):


Premise one: According to Islam, God can do anything.
If this is so, then it necessarily follows that if God can do anything, then he can become a man since that possibility falls under the scope of "God can do anything."

1. This would mean that God stopped being God.
   1. Since God can do anything, according to the premise above, then God could do this without stopping being God. See part "b." in next objection.
   2. If God, in some way, became a man, it does not necessitate that He stop being divine. He could simple add to Himself human nature.
2. This would mean that the infinite God became finite.
   1. Not if a "part" of God entered into a human form. The totality of God could still exist, yet a localized "part" could take the form of a man.
   2. Is not the Qur'an the word of Allah? Is not His word a reflection of His character since it proceeds from Him? Is not the infinite word of Allah made to become knowable, readable in a physical form for us to understand? Since this is so, why cannot the Word of God become flesh -- as the Bible says? Why cannot a representation of God (His word) take a physical form (Qur'an) or even a human form (Jesus) -- since God can do anything?
3. This would mean that the independent became dependent.
   1. It would not necessitate that the totality of God became dependent, per point "b." above: a part of God could become man.
   2. God can choose to become dependent, in part, as a man. He can make that choice, can he not?
4. This would mean that the eternal became temporal.
   1. Again, by premise one, God could do it since He can do all things.
   2. If God, in some way, became a man by adding human nature to Himself, it would not necessitate that God stop being eternal since His divine nature would be, by nature, eternal as it is retained within the human form.
5. If God became man, then he could not become God again.
   1. If only a "part" of God became man, then God would never have ceased being God and the objection is moot.
   2. If God can do all things, then a part of Him can become a man and retain His divine nature and never have stopped being God at all.
6. Why would God need to become a man? Showing He has a need means he is dependent.
   1. It is not a need. It is a choice. God is not compelled to do anything -- except be Himself. If He chose to become a man, it would be by His desire, not by His need.
   2. If God can do anything, then He can choose to share in the dependency of a human and not deny his own nature of being God.

Premise two: God cannot do anything, because He cannot do anything that conflicts with His nature. Becoming a man conflicts with His nature.

1. To say God's nature does not permit Him, in some way, to become a man requires that the Muslim establish those aspects of God's nature that negate the possibility of an incarnation, otherwise it is only the Muslim's opinion.
   1. God's nature has to do with essential character and essence of His being like holiness, love, compassion, goodness, patience, etc.
      1. There is nothing in holiness, love, compassion, goodness, patience, etc., that would mean God could not become a man.
   2. God's attributes are inherent characteristics like eternality, infinity, invisibility, omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, speech, creativity, etc.
      1. None of the above attributes negate the possibility of a part of God becoming man.

a. The essential nature of something is not changed if a part of it adds humanity.
Premise Three: God's nature can be partially seen in His creation.
As a painter reveals part of himself, his style, what he is, etc., in his painting, so too, God has revealed part of Himself, His style, and what He is in His creation.

1. The universe is ordered; therefore, God is a God of order.
2. The universe operates on laws; therefore, God is a God of law.
3. The universe has a beginning; therefore, God is the creator.
4. The universe is immense (functionally infinite); therefore, God is infinite.
5. The universe is comprised of three primary aspects: Space, Time, and Matter.
   1. Space is comprised of height, width, and depth - a trinity - but each aspect is by nature space.
   2. Time is comprised of past, present, and future - a trinity - but each aspect is by nature time.
   3. Matter is comprised of solid, liquid, and gas - a trinity - but each aspect is by nature matter.
      1. Therefore, we can conclude from looking at the universe, and God as its creation, that it is possible for God to have a trinitarian aspect to His nature.
6. If it is fair to say that God may indeed be trinitarian in some aspect of His nature,
   1. then God could be a plurality and all aspects of this plurality, being of God, would be divine by nature.
7. Since God is self-aware, has a will, can speak, etc., then it follows that the plural aspects of God would share, in some way, those same qualities.
8. If this is possible, then why cannot part of God, since God is a plurality, become a man and add human nature to itself?

There is no logical reason to declare the impossibility of God being trinitarian or that He, in some way, could become a man.
The Bible has declared that God is indeed a Trinity and that Jesus is both God and man (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2:9; etc.).

 

[Islam_mulia]

Premise one: According to Islam, God can do anything.
If this is so, then it necessarily follows that if God can do anything, then he can become a man since that possibility falls under the scope of "God can do anything."

Wrong. The Quran does not say that!

The Quran says God has Power over all things. That means he only does Godly things. He does not do stupid things like turning himself into a mouse to be eaten by a cat, or to let his creation killed Him.

 

[NOTW]

Wrong. The Quran does not say that!

The Quran says God has Power over all things. That means he only does Godly things. He does not do stupid things like turning himself into a mouse to be eaten by a cat, or to let his creation killed Him.

You still don't get the point, do you?

Okay, let me make it easier.

Can Allah do whatever He wants?

 

[Clodpate]

God is perfect.

Cool.

So here is the heart of the question....

16:And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17:And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Judgeing from the commentary from Matthew Henry (http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1141010843-7950.html)

This Dove descending from the heavens is the Holy Spirit. Now, the Holy Spirit is part of the Triune godhead, so it is, by your admission, perfect ( whole, complete, without error ) descends from the heavens and apaun Jesus, who, the second part of the Triune godhead, by definition, is perfect, complete, whole and without error. And then, a voice from the heaven ( who I presume to be the third part of the godhead ), who is perfect, whole, complete and without error declares Jesus is his beloved son.

See why I am left confused beyond belief?

 

[Exegete12]

Is your faith Greater than that Of Paul?
Paul said Jesus was a MAN, not GOD, not a Manifested GOD, and all the Miracles Jesus Did were Granted from GOD Almighty so the people might believe that He is sent by GOD, as what? As a Karate player, as a Racer, as Horse Rider? No as a Messenger of GOD to deliver His Messages. Further more, we see that Jesus confirms these claims in (John 5:30)"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me" There are two Will's, a Superior One "GOD's Will" & an Inferior One "Son's will" and when the Father says something, the Son should Comply, becuase He is always trying to please His Father.

Is He the Only Son Of GOD? and Where in the Bible Jesus HimSelf says a Clear Statment that "Iam GOD manifested in Flesh" Please dont get me an Assumptive verses.

What part of this statement you don't Understand? He prays & dedicate His prayers to Someone else.. Or does He Pray for Himself? When you say thank you, do you say it for Someone else Or to yourself? Becuase if you say it to yourself, it should be "Thank me", otherwise you should Check the Doctor becuase you will be suffering from "Schizophrenia"

Also Here, He is always Differentiating between two entities

Again here, there is ONE who Sends, and ONE who is Being Sent, and that ONE is always doing things that Pleases that Superior ONE & to fulfill His Job properly,and this applies to the Prophets of GOD.

Again is He the Only Son Of GOD, and what does mean of being Son Of GOD?

What is Difference when I say "He is my Child" & "He is my Son"

So He had a Begining, and was Created like other Creatures. Refer to Genesis 1:6-8 "And GOD said"

Also here, He is insisting on that there is a Father & a Son, Separate entities, One who Has the Glory, and One who was Created & waiting to be Glorified.

Kind Regards

Asaalum Alaykum, peace be unto you:
I don't know which thread to respond to first.

First off: is my faith greater than Paul's – well I don't look at Paul as a measuring stick for my success as a Christian, but his knowledge is definitely greater than mine ... and yours I might add.

But at least you are beginning to understand the difference between the Son of Man (Jesus humbling himself to become just a man for his redemptive purposes) from that of His eternal status as the Son of God. Remember in the Godhead there is God the Father, God the Son and then the Holy Spirit who acts within the Godhead and within all true believers.

Now the Father and the Son are obviously separate, but act as ONE in purpose. Jesus even sits on the right hand side of the throne of the Father. Definitely two people here.

The whole idea of God becoming Jesus Christ simply as man, is so that we could live as He did. "Be ye perfect as I am perfect" isn't that what Jesus said. He could do miracles, signs and wonders – as a man, but with the power of God. And this applies to true believing born again Christians. He became our model. He was showing to us that it was not unattainable to be like him, as He had come as mere man, before His time had come to go back to His Father as the Son of God.

Jesus was completely dependent on the power of the Holy Spirit working through Him. The only distinction between Christians and Jesus today is, how obedient we are in abiding in His love and how much we are being dependent on the Holy Spirit, just as was Jesus.

This is the redemptive purpose of Jesus. Think about this. God could have destroyed the devil and his host with just a word, but instead He chose to defeat darkness through His delegated authority – those made in His image who were lovers of God by choice.

Let me tell you about that delegated authority. Let's take you back to the Garden of Eden. Satan came to kill, steal and destroy ... but wait he couldn't do that unless he first had the authority. So how did he get that authority? From us, from Adam. Satan couldn't come into the garden of Eden violently and take possession of Adam and Eve. Why? Because he had no dominion over it. God had given Adam and Eve that dominion but through sin, they gave it up to satan.

Notice when satan tempts Jesus to worship him in the wilderness he says "All this authority I will give you, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. Therefore, if you will worship before me, all will be yours". The temptation there for Jesus was to bypass His agonising death that He would have to undergo on Calvary. But Jesus did not take the short cut. But notice satan says 'for this has been delivered to me' - he states Adam and Eve relinquished their authority to him.

God the Father wanted satan defeated by a man – Jesus Christ. Jesus retrieved what man had given away, then He declared "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore...." That means Jesus got it back for us -- hallelujah. Then He said to His disciples "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven." That is still HIS PLAN today, He has entrusted those keys to Christians so that we will share the Kingdom of God with others, so that they might believe and come from the grip of satan.

As Christians we now hold the keys to the Kingdom of God -- [and we so easily take that for granted]. And because of this He has given us the authority to trample over all the powers of hell. (Luke 10: 19).

And that is the belief system Christians embrace. And in Ephesians 3: 20 he will do above all we could ask or think!! And the Church will not neglect her destiny as Jerusalem did -- "Jerusalem did not consider her destiny; therefore her collapse was awesome" (Lamentations 1:9).

Kind regards

 

[ALRAJY]

Hi Guys,

Wow !! That's alot, I am not sure that I can respond to the Whole thing for now. Let's see:

If God, in some way, became a man, it does not necessitate that He stop being divine. He could simple add to Himself human nature

It would not necessitate that the totality of God became dependent, per point "b." above: a part of God could become man

If God, in some way, became a man by adding human nature to Himself, it would not necessitate that God stop being eternal since His divine nature would be, by nature, eternal as it is retained within the human form

If God, in some way, became a man by adding human nature to Himself, the totality ofGod becomes dependent because First

God is not a mortal or physical being

We are Physical Beings, right ? We have a Dimension in this World ? and that we are limited to the Space & time we exists within, and GOD can't be a Physical being, I assume becuase He would be limited to that Category.

If NOT then How do you Explain the Case with GOD having to be born in the Pear-shaped Muscular Female reproductive Organ, as an Embryo, where He Grows, receives His nourishments from the Placenta & Blood vessels, develops in the months before Birth ? Being limited to the Law of Nature He Created, beingl limited to the Time He Created, being Limited to the Space He existed within.

Doesn't ALL this Contradicts with Him in begin the Most Sufficient, the Most Powerful, the One Who has no Deficieny & not dependant on His Creatures ?

Even ifGOD becomes, in some way, a Man by adding human nature to Himself Second

God is not a perfect human

He still wouldn't be Perfect

There is no logical reason to declare the impossibility of God being trinitarian or that He, in some way, could become a man

And what is so Logical about saying that GOD is a Trinitarian, and trying to set Examples to it ? My Shoes consists Of a Lace, a Base & a Cover. Is it Same with God ? Yes or No ? And Why do you Limit GOD in Being 3, why isn't 4 "Fouritarian" or 5 "Fiftarian, a GOD, a Son, a Holy Spirit, a Grandmother & a Grandfather"

God can choose to become dependent, in part, as a man. He can make that choice, can he not?

It is like saying that GOD is so Powerful that He can become Anything, He can Become Poor after being Rich, He can become Hungry after being Full, He can Die after being Eternal ? Yeah ALRAJY why don't you believe it ? Every thing is Possible with GOD ? isn't the Same with Allah ?

Can Allah do whatever He wants?

As a matter of fact, It is not like that the questions aren't Approachable by the Mind, But Simply they Contradict with the Basics or Let me say the "Intuitions" of the Mind.

Each religion has some concepts that aren't approchable, or visualized by the Mind, but they are acceptable. But in the Second case, saying that GOD Almighty is Most Powerful & Sufficient, and at the same time He is in Need is contradictable. It like saying that ALRAJY is Intelligent & Unintelligent, Able & Disable, Rich & Poor at the same time. Or For exapmle, that thing is Circle & Square at the same time, or that Thing Exists & doesn't Exists.

You should know that the Strength of GOD is with NO doubt is ULTIMATE, and it appertains to the (Intellectual, Rational, Noetic) Possibilites, NOT Impossiblities, becuase even though this Sufficiency is Unrestricted, it stays in a Region of Possibilites that Someone' can Handle.

For Example:

ALRAJY: Can GOD The One who isn't Created, who had Created & Perfected everything, and the One who Has no deficiency in Himself and in His Attributes. The One Who is Ever-Living and Who does not die. The One Who Has no need for anything; the One Who is rich; the Giver; the One who, after all, controls man's soul Create GOD Who is Ever-lasting, who had Created & Perfected everything, and the One who Has no deficiency in Himself and in His Attributes. The One Who is Ever-Living and Who does not die. The One Who Has no need for anything; the One Who is rich; the Giver; the One who, after all, controls man's soul ?

X: Yes He can because He is So Powerful.

ALRAJY: But How come this Creature is GOD, and is Created at the Same time ? and How come He is Equal to GOD, while GOD is Ever-lasting, and the other is Current, Brought into being One !! This is Impossible.

ALRAJY: As a matter of Fact, the term "Create GOD" is a Sophistry, becuase once that thing is Created, it can't be regarded as GOD, so my Question is like asking "Can GOD Almighty create GOD who isn't GOD", and the Logical answer should be that the Ability ofGOD isn't related to such things, becuase again Being GOD, and not GOD at the same time is Huge, Impossible Contradiction, and as I said, the Sufficieny of GOD is not related to Mental or Logical Impossibilities.

Another Example:

ALRAJY: Can GOD Alimghty Exclude, Kick-out Someone from His Domination ?

X: Yes He can because He is So Powerful.

ALRAJY: Really ? Dont you think that with this Statement you are limiting GOD's Territory to a Specific Region ?

X: I mean No

ALRAJY: That is Right. The Omnipotence of GOD isn't related to Impossiblities. Becuase Logically is it Impossible that Someone can Escape from the Kingdom of His Creator "Where do I go"

Another Example:

X: Can GOD Almighty create a Huge ROCK that He Himself Can't move ?

ALRAJY: No He Can't. And this is not an Evidence that GOD is incapable. But On the Other Hand, this Supports & Proves that He is Complete. You question is like asking "Can GOD Almighty become Disabled from Doing Something ?" And as a Logical answer saying "NO He Can't Be Disabled" doesn't mean Limitising or Restricting GOD's ability, But stating & proving that His Omnipotence is Complete. It is the same as saying "GOD Can't Forget", So being Unable to Forget is Not an Incompletence but a Completence.

To Be Continued

 

[ALRAJY]

If you Understand this Aspect of Believing, then we would agree that because Man always looks for what benefits him and what protects him from harm. Then, you must know whom you should need, trust, and love so that you can attain what is beneficial as well as to feel good about this.

A Man can have no better guidance than that which comes from the One Who had perfected everything, and the One who Has no deficiency in Himself and in His Attributes. The One Who is Ever-Living and Who does not die. There can be no One better than the One Who Has no need for anything; the One Who is rich; the Giver; the One who, after all, controls man's soul. Man is so poor to Him.

All these Charactersitic & Properties we talked about, are Essential, Ever-lasting ones, that can't be Incidental or Obtained, Changed or Vanished, because they are the Adjectives of the Divine GOD Almighty.

It is Imposible, No Matter How, for the Omniscience of GOD Almighty to Change or Convert into Nescience, or becoming Poor after being Rich, or become Hungry after being Full, or Die after being Eternal. As this Conversion & Vanishing of Such Properties is Impossible, the Sufficieny of GOD is not related to Impossibilities.

And the Bible describes in so many verses, the Weakness & Debility of Jesus in many verses, consequently, GOD Alimghty can't Be Jesus.

(Malachi 3:6) "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed"

(James 1:16-17) "Do not err, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning"

(Numbers 23:19) "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent"

Kind Regards

 

[ALRAJY]

But when He was on the cross, He said: "My God, my God, why have You forsaken me" which came from his human nature

Was He Crucified & Killed in His Human Nature (Man)/Divine Nature(GOD)/Both (MAN & GOD) Natures ?


Questions Need to be Answered:

* If Jesus (pbuh) is part of a divine Trinity which makes up the essence of GOD Almighty, and if this GOD is ONE GOD and not THREE GODs, and if Jesus (pbuh) died on the cross, then what happened to God Almighty?

* Did the Trinity die also, or was a third of the Trinity ripped away from the whole, then tortured, killed, and sent to hell for 3 days, while the remaining two thirds of God? remained in it's crippled form a safe distance away?

* Who was overseeing the heavens and the earth while all of this was happening? A crippled Trinity? No one?

* If I am made up of Heart, Mind, and Soul, and one of them dies; what happens to the rest of me? Are they ONE or THREE?

* If God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are three names for the same being, and not three separate gods, then "The Death of Jesus" is just another way of saying "The death of God the 'Father'" which is also another way of saying "The death of the Holy Ghost"

* Most Importantly is to remember that My Shoes consists Of a Lace, a Base & a Cover. Same with God

I think I will go on a Holiday After this

Kind Regards

 

[ALRAJY]

Dont I deserve a Response Here At least for the Colorful text

Kind Regards

 

[elijah115]

not really .....

-If Jesus (pbuh) is part of a divine Trinity which makes up the essence of GOD Almighty, and if this GOD is ONE GOD and not THREE GODs, and if Jesus (pbuh) died on the cross, then what happened to God Almighty?

Nothing

- Did the Trinity die also, or was a third of the Trinity ripped away from the whole, then tortured, killed, and sent to hell for 3 days, while the remaining two thirds of God? remained in it's crippled form a safe distance away?

No

-Who was overseeing the heavens and the earth while all of this was happening? God

-If I am made up of Heart, Mind, and Soul, and one of them dies; what happens to the rest of me? Are they ONE or THREE? irrevelant question.

- If God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are three names for the same being, and not three separate gods, then "The Death of Jesus" is just another way of saying "The death of God the 'Father'" which is also another way of saying "The death of the Holy Ghost" - Not possibly at all.

Overrall comment: Anymore questions.

 

[NOTW]

If God, in some way, became a man by adding human nature to Himself, the totality ofGod becomes dependent because First
We are Physical Beings, right ? We have a Dimension in this World ? and that we are limited to the Space & time we exists within, and GOD can't be a Physical being, I assume becuase He would be limited to that Category.

No, you simply cannot comprehend the simple fact that God can do whatever!

If NOT then How do you Explain the Case with GOD having to be born in the Pear-shaped Muscular Female reproductive Organ, as an Embryo, where He Grows, receives His nourishments from the Placenta & Blood vessels, develops in the months before Birth ? Being limited to the Law of Nature He Created, beingl limited to the Time He Created, being Limited to the Space He existed within.

You omitted a very important part of his birth! Mary was a virgin and not married yet. Thus, Jesus' birth was quite as normal as you make sound like.
He needed to be born like everyone else for one reason.
Let me make this easier.
For our punishment to be paid and our case restored to normality with God and sin has no control over us, just like how human beings disobeyed God, a human being had to fix the situation. Jesus wasn't any human being, he was God in the shape of a human being where everyone can see and touch Him.

Doesn't ALL this Contradicts with Him in begin the Most Sufficient, the Most Powerful, the One Who has no Deficieny & not dependant on His Creatures ?

Contradicts with Him being the most sufficient: no.
.................................................. most powerful: no.
Contradicts with Him being one who has no deficiency: NO, because Jesus was still with no fault/sin.
Contradicts with Him being not dependant on His creatures: No, did He need His creatures to raise Him from the dead after 3 days? NO!!!

Even ifGOD becomes, in some way, a Man by adding human nature to Himself

Second
He still wouldn't be Perfect

Why can't you understand this?
He can be a perfect human being if He wanted to.

And what is so Logical about saying that GOD is a Trinitarian, and trying to set Examples to it ? My Shoes consists Of a Lace, a Base & a Cover. Is it Same with God ? Yes or No ? And Why do you Limit GOD in Being 3, why isn't 4 "Fouritarian" or 5 "Fiftarian, a GOD, a Son, a Holy Spirit, a Grandmother & a Grandfather

"

The reason why we say 3, not 4, not 5, is because Jesus never mentioned a 4th or 5th aspect of God.
Jesus only spoke of the Son of God (Himself), Holy Spirit, and God.
He never spoke of a grandmother and/or a grandfather

It is like saying that GOD is so Powerful that He can become Anything, He can Become Poor after being Rich, He can become Hungry after being Full, He can Die after being Eternal ? Yeah ALRAJY why don't you believe it ? Every thing is Possible with GOD ? isn't the Same with Allah ?

As a matter of fact, It is not like that the questions aren't Approachable by the Mind, But Simply they Contradict with the Basics or Let me say the "Intuitions" of the Mind.

No, because God doesn't have materialistic needs, neither do we say that God has materialistic needs, we say that Jesus did, only because his Human nature required every thing that we do: food, drink, sleep, heck even go to the bathroom!!

Each religion has some concepts that aren't approchable, or visualized by the Mind, but they are acceptable. But in the Second case, saying that GOD Almighty is Most Powerful & Sufficient, and at the same time He is in Need is contradictable. It like saying that ALRAJY is Intelligent & Unintelligent, Able & Disable, Rich & Poor at the same time. Or For exapmle, that thing is Circle & Square at the same time, or that Thing Exists & doesn't Exists.

Again, look at the previous response!

 

[Exegete12]

Was He Crucified & Killed in His Human Nature (Man)/Divine Nature(GOD)/Both (MAN & GOD) Natures ?
COLOR]) died on the cross, then what happened to God Almighty?

I think I will go on a Holiday After this

Kind Regards

Alrajy Peace be unto you:
Jesus, as the Son of Man, was killed in His human nature, so that His divine nature could then become accessible to us.

The experience of Jesus transcends that of other men, in so far as He is aware, that once He was more than man and will some day return to His former high estate – that of GOD. Biedermann (a theologian) says 'It is the paradox of His unique consciousness that He who exists as man knows Himself to be God, and remembers the time when He exercised the attributes of power and knowledge which for the time being He has laid aside.'

Jesus on earth was man for a limited time only. His filial consciousness was re-awakened at His baptism, and the filial state i.e. the Divine 'form of God' the mode of existence answering to His true being – which He only regained at the ascension. [Resurrection]

During his time on earth He was directing the worship to the Father. I need not labour the point on this forum that Christ has given to men the perfect revelation of the Father. To redeem by authority, by atonement, by the gift of life – this IS revelation. (And there I go again speaking in tripartite statements … tri – three).

The words of Jesus are the voice of God.
The tears of Jesus are the pity of God.
The wrath of Jesus is the judgement of God.

[oh I did it again]

CHRIST IS THE REVEALER OF GOD!!!

Although while on earth Jesus was man, we Christians find God personally present in Christ and respond to Him so.

As the result of His being in the world, we possess and hold God in quite a new way, a different way (very different from Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc) – a possession which is unintelligible save as mediated by a Divine reality.

Hmmmm, I hope I am explaining okay, how to explain. ..... Okay, Jesus lived out the transcendent life which made up His personality, confronting men as His Divine self, and letting the fact of His being tell on their minds as a revelation. Like maybe, when you meet a born again Christian, full of the Holy Spirit, you will know and almost feel the presence of God. I know when I meet people like that, sometimes I feel almost afraid of them, as I know how close they are to God.

And now getting back on track, dear Alrajy, He has put the Father within our reach, as a faithful and unchangeable redeemer, but He could do so only because He was one with that which He conveyed.

The power of Christians (the Church) to propagate our faith is largely dependent on our power to commend the great truths of the Gospel to the understanding, as well as to the HEARTS of people, you and all others on this forum.

Anyway, you go and enjoy your holiday in peace.
Kind regards

 

[ALRAJY]

No, you simply cannot comprehend the simple fact that God can do whatever

* Can GOD The One who isn't Created, who had Created & Perfected everything, and the One who Has no deficiency in Himself and in His Attributes. The One Who is Ever-Living and Who does not die. The One Who Has no need for anything; the One Who is rich; the Giver; the One who, after all, controls man's soul Create GOD Who isEver-lasting, who had Created & Perfected everything, and the One who Has no deficiency in Himself and in His Attributes. The One Who is Ever-Living and Who does not die. The One Who Has no need for anything; the One Who is rich; the Giver; the One who, after all, controls man's soul.

* Can GODAlimghty Exclude, Kick-out Someone from His Domination ?

* Can GOD Almighty create a Huge ROCK that He Himself Can't move ?

You omitted a very important part of his birth! Mary was a virgin and not married yet. Thus, Jesus' birth was quite as normal as you make sound like. He needed to be born like everyone else for one reason

The phrase I am talking about is "He needed to be born" Does GOD need ? If He needs How come He can Fulfill ? GOD needed to be born in the Pear-shaped Muscular Female reproductive Organ, as an Embryo, where He Grows, receives His nourishments from the Placenta & Blood vessels, develops in the months before Birth. And after being born He needed Breastfeeding for His Survival.
(Luke 11:27) "And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked"

For our punishment to be paid and our case restored to normality with God and sin has no control over us, just like how human beings disobeyed God, a human being had to fix the situation. Jesus wasn't any human being, he was God in the shape of a human being where everyone can see and touch Him

Sorry Friend but I am not really sure why you try to Mix things Up ? Do you see in the 4 Responses I posted that I talked about the Sin. But also I have a question Here, Was the One who came to Fix the Situation Crucified & Killed in His Human Nature (Man)/Divine Nature(GOD)/Both (MAN & GOD) Natures ?

did He need His creatures to raise Him from the dead after 3 days? NO!!!

Actually, I would agree with you that He didn't need any of the Creatures to Raise Him Up. But He needed His Creator, GOD Almighty to raise Him Up.

(Acts 2:24) "Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death"
(Acts 3:15) "And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead"
(Acts 3:26) "Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus"
(Acts 4:10) "by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead"
(Acts 5:30) "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree"
(Acts 13:30) "But God raised him from the dead"
(Roman 4:24) "if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead"
(Roman 10:9) "shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead"

(Acts 2:32-33) "God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact. Exalted to the right hand of God"

Exalt: Raise in rank, character, or status.
Exalt: Glorify or put much Higher

Not only that GOD raised Him Up from Dead but also Exalted Him, which we already know what it means.

(Ephs 1:20)"Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places"

Also Here, Not only that GOD raised Him Up from Dead, but also Set Jesus a place on His Right side.

Why is that ? Why does Jesus want GOD Himself to Raise Him Up, can't He do it Himself ? I would like Jesus to answer the Question Himself

(John 5:30) "I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me"

Why can't you understand this?
He can be a perfect human being if He wanted to.

Why can't you Understand that it is Imposible, No Matter How, for the Omniscience of GOD Almighty to Change or Convert into Nescience, or becoming Poor after being Rich, or become Hungry after being Full, or Die after being Eternal.

Why can't you Understant that all these Characters are Human instincts that change Permenantly. Today I am Full, tomorrow I am Hungry, Probably. Today I have Money, tomorrow I am Poor, Who knows. Now I am Alive, few minutes Later I am Dead. All these Cases undergoes the Case of Probablity & Possibility, that Me as a Human Being that I don't know If it is Going to Happen or Not. And GOD Can't Undergo this Cateogry. And If GOD has NO deficiency "NO, because Jesus was still with no fault/sin" becuase He is without Sins, He would still Have other Needs & Deficiencies as a Human Being. And there So many verses in the Bible that Support my Claims that GOD Doesn't change, Here are Few:

(Malachi 3:6) "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed"

(James 1:16-17) "Do not err, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning"

(Numbers 23:19) "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent"

The reason why we say 3, not 4, not 5, is because Jesus never mentioned a 4th or 5th aspect of God. Jesus only spoke of the Son of God (Himself), Holy Spirit, and God. He never spoke of a grandmother and/or a grandfather

Where is it in the Bible that Jesus Says: "I am GOD, Son of GOD, a Holy Spirit, all together a Trinity, with No additions"

No, because God doesn't have materialistic needs, neither do we say that God has materialistic needs, we say that Jesus did, only because his Human nature required every thing that we do: food, drink, sleep, heck even go to the bathroom

GOD "No Needs" = Jesus "Needs to be Fulfilled"

AlHannah, you are so Sweet, aren't you ? Are you Married Jus kidding. I Know that Jesus was a Man, He was on earth for a Limited time, and that during His time, He was directing the worship to the Father, not because you said it, but becuase Jesus Himself said it
(John 8:40) "But now you seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of GOD"

And what was the First of the all truths ?

(Matthew 12:29) "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord"
(Matthew 12:31) "And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these"

But where is it that He says "I am GOD". Why do Exaggerate in your Faith and say Something that hasn't been said by Jesus Himself or His Disciples. You wouldn't really like to have a Faith based on Assumption.
Hopefully I will discuss the case where Jesus in the NT says I am GOD in another Thread.

Kind Regards

 

[Exegete12]

AlHannah[/COLOR][/COLOR], you are so Sweet, aren't you ? Are you Married Jus kidding. I Know that Jesus was a Man, He was on earth for a Limited time, and that during His time, He was directing the worship to the Father, not because you said it, but becuase Jesus Himself said it
(John 8:40) "But now you seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of GOD"

And what was the First of the all truths ?

(Matthew 12:29) "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord"
(Matthew 12:31) "And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these"

But where is it that He says "I am GOD". You wouldn't really like to have a Faith based on Assumption.
Hopefully I will discuss the case where Jesus in the NT says I am GOD in another Thread.

Peace be unto you:
I love all this scripture you are quoting me, praise God, and it's from the bible. And yes I agree with these statements wholeheartedly, and so does everyone else who is a Christian. But the FACT is our faith is based on REVELATION not an assumption. During the time of Jesus on earth, He had to be as man, so that we too could become like him. So that it was also attainable for us. When He said "be ye perfect as I am perfect" – He was saying something that was attainable for us, as it was for him, as He had come as the Son of Man, not as God –- He (God – YHWH [second person in the Godhead]) humbled Himself to become man and become totally reliant on God the Father and the Holy Spirit. His reliance on the Holy Spirit is the same for us Christians, i.e. how much we rely on the Holy Spirit of God to work in us and through us, to reach people out of the kingdom of darkness and into His kingdom of light.

Now Jesus illustrated this reality in Matthew 12: 28 "If I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you." Do you notice two things?

First, Jesus worked only through the Spirit of God; and second, the Kingdom of God came upon someone in his deliverance. Jesus caused the collision between two worlds: the world of darkness and the world of light. ANDDDD darkness always gives way to light!!! Only Jesus was able to reveal the Spirit of God to men, and once they believed, they started to realise who He really was – the Messiah, the Christ, the Son of God, the Prince of Peace --- I could go on ----- But His time had not yet come for that realisation to come until it was THE RIGHT TIME.

As a Christian I am born again by grace through faith. The born again experience enables me to see from the heart. A heart that doesn't see is a hard heart. (I'm sorry if that may offend).

To encourage us to see, Jesus gave us specific instructions "Seek first the Kingdom of God...." St Paul taught us "Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth".

And as Christians we are to walk in the LIGHT, walk in LOVE, and walk in FAITH.

Now we have instant access to the Father "For through Him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit" (Eph 2: 18).

And lastly "…now these three remain: FAITH, HOPE and LOVE. But the greatest of these is LOVE." 1 Cor 13: 13.
Earlier on in the scripture St Paul said "… if I have faith that can move mountains, but have not love. I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing."

You see everything is based on the LOVE OF GOD. And my prayer for you Alrajy is to know that love of God. Here it is here: "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails..."
You can read more in 1 Corinthians 13.
Kind regards

 

[J0nDaFr3aK]

Hi Guys,

Hummm, I was wondering about something. Many Say in the Name Of GOD, The Son Of GOD & The Holy Spirit. Is it Okay to say For example:
In the Name Of The Holy Spirit, The Son Of GOD & GOD.
In the Name Of The Son Of GOD, The Holy Spirit & GOD.
Since they are ALL ONE

Kind Regards

Well, actually Ive been wondering about this also. here's what i think.
Despite they are all one they have different roles. Yeah, you can say "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit", but we are healed and saved in Jesus name. the Bible never mentions we are saved in the Holy Spirit's name. to me it sounds kind of weird and incorrect. Acts 4:12, "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Here Peter is speaking about Jesus name. The apostle Paul in the beginning of all His letters always gives glory to God the Father and to the Son but never gives the glory to the Holy Spirit with his own words.
I think we should base only on what we read in the Bible. In my church a bro once preached on the Holy Spirit's role and in the end of the service he started saying repeatedly "glory to the Holy Spirit". not that thats wrong but you never find it written in the whole Bible. The apostle John himself writes, "Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard." (1 John 2:7)
Bible-based preaches are also never anything new. anything preachers preach is always their own interpretion of what the Bible says. but if you wanna heal somebody in the name of the Holy Spirit (which is something never found in the Bible) well, i dont think anything happens. Not that the Holy Spirit cant do that but you know, it's not biblical. The Holy Spirit is the one who heals nowadays but it all happens in Jesus name.

I hope Ive been clear. Im italian lol..