Christians Only : your evidence please

lewiscalledhimmaster · Jan 16, 2017

I'm kidding --- you are all most welcome, even though my three wee question are for Christians !

I was a Christian for most of my adult life but at some point before learning about how evolutionary biology puts a different spin on what happened after God created us, I realized that I was living a lie

Now here's question 1 : Is Evolution, really a BIG FAT LIE?

Question 2 : What evidence would you offer in support of such an idea?

Question 3 : If you are a Christian who stands by the evidence in support of Evolution, how do you reconcile the two - your faith in Jesus and Evolution?

Thank you

Strathos · Jan 16, 2017

1. No
2. Too much to list
3. I see no conflict

JackRT · Jan 16, 2017

Strathos said:
1. No
2. Too much to list
3. I see no conflict

Agreed!

lewiscalledhimmaster · Jan 16, 2017

Strathos said:
1. No
2. Too much to list
3. I see no conflict

Hahaha

John Hyperspace · Jan 16, 2017

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
Now here's question 1 : Is Evolution, really a BIG FAT LIE?

Impossible for me to determine the veracity.

Whether true or false, as I'm lead to understand, faith is a belief in the ability of someone to perform their word; so there would be no conflict between faith and evolution; evolution not really even being a relevant factor in faith. Meaning, whether or not evolution is true or false doesn't factor in to the ability of someone to perform their word.

JackRT · Jan 16, 2017

John Hyperspace said:
Impossible for me to determine the veracity.

Whether true or false, as I'm lead to understand, faith is a belief in the ability of someone to perform their word; so there would be no conflict between faith and evolution; evolution not really even being a relevant factor in faith. Meaning, whether or not evolution is true or false doesn't factor in to the ability of someone to perform their word.

To me, faith is not a belief in a set of propositional statements but rather a sure confidence that no matter what happens in our lives, God is always with us. Creationism is just such a propositional statement based on one particular interpretation of Genesis.

John Hyperspace · Jan 16, 2017

JackRT said:
To me, faith is not a belief in a set of propositional statements but rather a sure confidence that no matter what happens in our lives, God is always with us. Creationism is just such a propositional statement based on one particular interpretation of Genesis.

Yeah, that's my take on it, as well.

Archie the Preacher · Jan 16, 2017

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
I was a Christian for most of my adult life but at some point before learning about how evolutionary biology puts a different spin on what happened after God created us, I realized that I was living a lie

Ouch! I've been pointing your reaction - in theory - to many who cling to YEC because their parents or some 'preacher' told them to do so if they want to go to Heaven. I hope I can help.

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
1 : Is Evolution, really a BIG FAT LIE?

Only the corollary, 'evolution proves God does not exist'. If evolution exists - and I think it does - then it, like every other force, law or function in the Universe was created, ordained, established or cooked up by God.

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
2 : What evidence would you offer in support of such an idea?

This is the tricky part. There is no 'proof' of the existence of God in a 'scientific' sense. God does not appear in a test tube or equation. He does 'appear' (invisibly) in my life. To my knowledge, God has never joined me for coffee or dinner.

However, presuming - and I use that word in the philosophical argument sense, not in the sense I'm not sure - God exists and created the Universe, then God must have created all therein. Which includes 'evolution' and the Klingon Empire, if such exists.

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
3 : If you are a Christian who stands by the evidence in support of Evolution, how do you reconcile the two - your faith in Jesus and Evolution?

Like Strathos said, "I see no conflict". Since God is behind the principle, law, whatever one wants to call it, there is no conflict anymore than there is a conflict between God and the law of gravity.

There are those who differ, of course.

cloudyday2 · Jan 16, 2017

@lewiscalledhimmaster , you must see a conflict between evolution and faith in Jesus. Can you share that conflict at some point later in the thread? (Maybe you want to wait to see what problems others might see before giving your idea.)

Here are some of my ideas FWIW.

The Bible portrays humans as the most important beings. They were created in God's image, and God sent Jesus to redeem humans and so forth. Evolution portrays humans as one of many species that is in a state of change from a previous species into a new species. Humans have a more sophisticated society than any other animal on Earth, but there are probably more sophisticated societies elsewhere in the universe.

Another problem might be the references in the NT to Adam and the idea of original sin inherited from Adam. Any most recent common male ancestor was part of a community of humans with a similar genome, and that community was evolving from some prehuman species to the human species. The idea of Adam as the root of the human tree is the wrong picture IMO.

Those are my ideas.

Strathos · Jan 16, 2017

Archie the Preacher said:
Only the corollary, 'evolution proves God does not exist'.

No one actually makes this claim. It's the YEC set that somehow comes to this conclusion.

LaSorcia · Jan 16, 2017

God gave us reasoning and investigative abilities. If we, as we have, figure out some of the 'how' of what God did, I see several issues.
1-Understanding our tiny bit of the universe and how God did his cosmic magic doesn't give us the right to be proud and think that there is no God because we have some insights.

2-Understanding of macro-life issues (cosmology, evolution, etc.) is neither an inherent prerequisite nor a deterrent to having a relationship with God.

So, to answer your questions:
1-Evidence has been discovered that the process of evolution is at work in our earth. But, there is a lot of lie mixed in with the truth, when 'objective' scientists insist that the fact of evolution precludes the fact of God's existence.

2-Not enough time or energy for this one, sorry!

3- I don't really care how God did it. My faith rests in the character of God, not a set of dogma/beliefs that can be proven right or wrong. The manner in which God chose to create and implement the universe and our earth and biology has nothing to do with His gracious and wonderful redeeming nature. I think it's perfectly possible to 'believe' in both creation (how it started) and evolution (how God keeps it going).

Hope this helps!

SnowyMacie · Jan 16, 2017

Strathos said:
1. No
2. Too much to list
3. I see no conflict

JackRT said:
Agreed!

I third this

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
Hahaha

Why is that funny? The majority of Christians around the world would answer this way.

Papias · Jan 16, 2017

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
Now here's question 1 : Is Evolution, really a BIG FAT LIE?

Not any more than gravity theory, atomic theory or germ theory. All are facts about the real world.

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
Question 2 : What evidence would you offer in support of such an idea?

That would take many books, just as if I asked what evidence you can give me to support the idea that things are made of atoms. Literally millions of people have spent their entire lives accumulating the evidence.

A good summary is here, however:
29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: The Scientific Case for Common Descent

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
Question 3 : If you are a Christian who stands by the evidence in support of Evolution, how do you reconcile the two - your faith in Jesus and Evolution?
Thank you

I see no conflict. Just as I don't see a conflict between Jesus and gravitational theory, even though Genesis 1:17, if taken literally, contradicts gravitational theory.

-Papias

mcarmichael · Jan 16, 2017

I wouldn't refer to science. I would refer to Holy Scripture.

alexjb · Jan 16, 2017

I just want to say that I know God is real from an experience that I've had in my life. So in my mind I do not doubt God's existence in any shape or form but previously in the past before my experience I have wondered and researched greatly into all this evolution theory, and being the person I am (I suffer from Obsessive compulsive disorder) I obsessively researched into it all and I realised that looking into everything evolution is actually described in Genesis in many ways. If you look at the belief on the order of events through science it does match up very well with Genesis. However I'm not saying I understand it all because I simply don't, and neither do scientists or anyone on this planet for that matter lol. But from what I can see, God created the world and he said let there be light. Now if that meant there was a big bang then that's cool. but the next event is also interesting, evolution believes in sea animals before land, just like the bible describes and we must also remember that God lives outside of time, so a day (possibly described as a day or any period of time in Genesis) may have just referred to a period of time and it doesn't matter if it's 2000 days to God or 2 days, as he lives outside this planet and we live in a timezone that is related to our planet. Anyway before getting too much into detail I just want to say that there is a lot we do not know, but we don't need to know it because it's very obvious to me that Jesus is the answer to everything and I think why doubt God and such a reliable document ( The bible ). It's God's word to us and all we have to do is accept it and rest in him Hope this has helped you

Jane_Doe · Jan 16, 2017

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
Now here's question 1 : Is Evolution, really a BIG FAT LIE?

Nope, nor does it conflict with theology of a creator.

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
Question 2 : What evidence would you offer in support of such an idea?

For evolution? I refer you to the body of peer-reviewed studies on the subject. On the creation? I refer you to scripture. Were you wanting something more specific?

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
Question 3 : If you are a Christian who stands by the evidence in support of Evolution, how do you reconcile the two - your faith in Jesus and Evolution?

Evolution is the theory on the how new species arose. God and the Creation answer the why this all came to be. Knowing a tiny tiny tiny bit how God works His wonders doesn't make them any less wonderful.

RDKirk · Jan 16, 2017

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
I'm kidding --- you are all most welcome, even though my three wee question are for Christians !

I was a Christian for most of my adult life but at some point before learning about how evolutionary biology puts a different spin on what happened after God created us, I realized that I was living a lie

Now here's question 1 : Is Evolution, really a BIG FAT LIE?

Question 2 : What evidence would you offer in support of such an idea?

Question 3 : If you are a Christian who stands by the evidence in support of Evolution, how do you reconcile the two - your faith in Jesus and Evolution?

Thank you

Inasmuch as you made an opening assertion ("evolutionary biology puts a different spin on what happened after God created us"), I think you need to lay out the evidence of your assertion first.

How do you expect people to respond directly to an argument you have not yet made?

lewiscalledhimmaster · Jan 16, 2017

JackRT said:
Why is that funny? The majority of Christians around the world would answer this way.

It was funny, for I expected more a detailed reply hahaha

Does the second answer make sense?

lewiscalledhimmaster · Jan 16, 2017

RDKirk said:
Inasmuch as you made an opening assertion ("evolutionary biology puts a different spin on what happened after God created us"), I think you need to lay out the evidence of your assertion first.

How do you expect people to respond directly to an argument you have not yet made?

Fair point
Well doesn't it?

mcarmichael · Jan 16, 2017

the most basic evidence, empirical data, is based upon a presuppoition that reality is reality.

Christians Only : your evidence please

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