Christians & gun control

[Gunny]

After the taking away hanguns from law abiding citzens in England the prevelance of armed crime by criminals has increased.

Armed criminals have good reason to utilize handguns against law abiding citizens knowing that that the Goverment has disarmed it's citizens.



"Rome remained free for four hundred years and Sparta eight hundred, although their citizens were armed all that time; but many other states that have been disarmed have lost their liberties in less than forty years." - Niccolo Machiavelli, 16th Century Italian Political Theorist

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." - Mahtma Gandhi, Indian Political Leader

"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason, American Statesman and Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)

"The right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which ... historically has proven to be always possible." - United States Senator Hubert Humphrey

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... serve rather than to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Cesare Beccaria, 18th Century Italian Criminologist

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes." - Cesare Beccaria, 18th Century Italian Criminologist

 

[Lacmeh]

Gunnysgt, so you believe, that criminals wouldn´t use guns when faced with the possibility of armed citizens? How do you think would they overpower an armed citizen?

 

[jseek21]

Today at 12:09 PM Lacmeh said this in Post #36 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=646700#post646700)

Gunnysgt, I don´t think,t hat the increase of guns in hands of the criminals can be tied to more restrictive gun laws. Do you really believe, that more private gun owners do hinder criminals get guns?
According to this, the US should have the least armed criminals in the Western world.

Well, it's not necessarially that more private citizens owning guns stops criminals from it. It's this: while the citizen's will not have them, the criminals still will. Will a criminal go, 'Oh man! They banned guns! Wow, this is gonna set me back!" then line up to turn their guns in? Of course not!

However if a criminal breaks into a house to find out that the owner has a weapon he suddeny has had his power taken away. The average citizen can no defend himself. This has happened many times.
What will the criminals think when they know THEY are the only ones who have guns?

I have had instances in which I have called the police and it's taken a half hour, 45 minutes. And by then the criminal was gone. When I had a seizure it took 45 MINUTES for anyone to get there. If this had been a crime the deed would have already have been done.

 

[2 PAC]

My gramps had uh gat an' he wuz uh baptist preacher until he wuz real old Ya' dig?

 

[Ryder]

Today at 03:00 PM gunnysgt said this in Post #41

After the taking away hanguns from law abiding citzens in England the prevelance of armed crime by criminals has increased.

Armed criminals have good reason to utilize handguns against law abiding citizens knowing that that the Goverment has disarmed it's citizens.



"Rome remained free for four hundred years and Sparta eight hundred, although their citizens were armed all that time; but many other states that have been disarmed have lost their liberties in less than forty years." - Niccolo Machiavelli, 16th Century Italian Political Theorist

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." - Mahtma Gandhi, Indian Political Leader

"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason, American Statesman and Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)

"The right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which ... historically has proven to be always possible." - United States Senator Hubert Humphrey

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... serve rather than to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Cesare Beccaria, 18th Century Italian Criminologist

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes." - Cesare Beccaria, 18th Century Italian Criminologist

Right on, excellent quotes

 http://www.saveourguns.com/nazirepression.htm

 

 

[Lacmeh]

It would help, if you would actualyl read, what I write.
The claim is, that the better armed citizens are, the less armed criminals are. That has nothing to do with crime rate increase/decrease.

The criminal wouldn´t have a weapon if he knows, that the house owner has one?

 

[2 PAC]

Why everybody up in here telling each other dey don' know ta read like dey ignorant w0rd!

 

[Evangelion]

gunnysgt -

After the taking away hanguns from law abiding citzens in England the prevelance of armed crime by criminals has increased.

Please prove that these two are related. And while you are attempting to do so, please keep in mind the fact that Britons were never in the habit of bearing arms for the purpose of self defence. Think about it.

I think if you actually take the time to study this subject, you'll see that the increase in crime is due to an increase in the number of foreign gangs (typically Jamaican) entering Britain. And of course, crime rates have a tendency to rise every year, regardless of which country you live in. I certainly don't see a drop in the level of crime in you gunslingin' country, that's for sure.

By the way, in the year following Britain's gun law change, Scotland recorded a 17% drop in all firearm-related offences. The British Home Office reports that in the nine months following the handgun ban, firearm-related offences in England and Wales dropped by 13%.

A British citizen is still 50 times less likely to be a victim of gun homicide than an American.

 

[aaron]

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[Evening Mist]

There is this town in the US that required everyone in the town to own at least one gun per household. The crime rate dropped tremendously and I think it may have even left completely. Tell me that is not proof enough.

Dare I ask for some sort of varifiable reference on this one?

 

[aaron]

Today at 10:18 PM Evening Mist said this in Post #50



Dare I ask for some sort of varifiable reference on this one?

That is a perfectly reasonable question. I will search and hopefully get something back to you by tomorrow.

Aaron

 

[2 PAC]

where I live up in da hood if ya don' own uh gat up in yo' crib ya be telling grammy bye you know das right!

 

[takentime]

I live in a rural area not that far from the city. A lot of people here own guns. Every once in a while someone will come around and try a b&e (breaking & entering). They end up shot. Bottom line is we do not have that happen much around here. It is because a lot of the citizens own firearms. The crimes stay up in or very near the city.

Just thought I would throw in that observation.

 

[Evening Mist]

Lord in heaven. So if my son temporarily goes off his rocker some night when he is a teenager, and drinks himself into a stupor and then tries to rob someone's house UNARMED -- you think it is okay to teach the world a lesson by SHOOTING him?

Not that my son is ever going to do this. But everyone is someone's kid. One stupid mistake justifies killing a kid?

And goodness, what if it is your *own* son, bumping around in the night, trying to sneak in late without being noticed. Is it okay to shoot him and teach the world a lesson?

And it is entirely possible that there are fewer crimes in the country because there are fewer people in the country to commit them.

 

[manateelynn]

Folks, I usually just read the posts and not comment on them, but this time, I feel a need.... My daughters are grown now and I even have a grandson, but when my daughters were little (2 and 3 yrs old), my husband was working the midnight shift at a 7-11, so my girls and I were home alone. One early morning, someone tried to break in our front door. I have a 22 rifle that was given to me as a Christmas present when I was 15 from the people I babysat for. They had taught me to shoot so I could help them patrol the orange groves for rabbits and such that would burrow under the trees and kill the trees. When I heard the man trying to get in my front door, I grabbed my rifle and stood in front of the door with it aimed at the door. To protect my children, I wouldn't have given a thought to shooting that man if he had made it into my home. The man couldn't get into the front door, so he tried the back one. I was lucky...he couldn't get in that one either. If he had, yes, I would have shot him. Because I had a gun of my own, I could defend my home and children if he had gotten in, but if I hadn't owned a gun and he had gotten in, I have no doubt that my children and I would be dead now. I believe in the 2nd amendment. I believe that people should be allowed to defend themselves and their family against people who mean harm to them. Did I say I would kill the man.....no. I said I would have shot him. I would have stopped him by shooting him in the leg or shoulder. My grandmother always taught me that if someone broke into your home, KILL them. I don't agree with that. I would rather shoot someone in the shoulder or leg and stop them from hurting my kids, but if that didn't work, then I would have no problem shooting to kill.

 

[Evening Mist]

manateelyn -- what a chilling story. I certainly admire your courage and and happy that you and your children are with us.

Thank you for something to think about.

 

[Lacmeh]

Still no one could come up with any evidence for the claim, that arming citizens causes criminals to own less guns.

 

[Evangelion]

manateelynn -

Folks, I usually just read the posts and not comment on them, but this time, I feel a need.... My daughters are grown now and I even have a grandson, but when my daughters were little (2 and 3 yrs old), my husband was working the midnight shift at a 7-11, so my girls and I were home alone. One early morning, someone tried to break in our front door. I have a 22 rifle that was given to me as a Christmas present when I was 15 from the people I babysat for. They had taught me to shoot so I could help them patrol the orange groves for rabbits and such that would burrow under the trees and kill the trees. When I heard the man trying to get in my front door, I grabbed my rifle and stood in front of the door with it aimed at the door. To protect my children, I wouldn't have given a thought to shooting that man if he had made it into my home. The man couldn't get into the front door, so he tried the back one. I was lucky...he couldn't get in that one either. If he had, yes, I would have shot him. Because I had a gun of my own, I could defend my home and children if he had gotten in, but if I hadn't owned a gun and he had gotten in, I have no doubt that my children and I would be dead now. I believe in the 2nd amendment. I believe that people should be allowed to defend themselves and their family against people who mean harm to them. Did I say I would kill the man.....no. I said I would have shot him. I would have stopped him by shooting him in the leg or shoulder. My grandmother always taught me that if someone broke into your home, KILL them. I don't agree with that. I would rather shoot someone in the shoulder or leg and stop them from hurting my kids, but if that didn't work, then I would have no problem shooting to kill.

So you were saved by two locked doors.

The firearm was therefore unnecessary.

Thankyou.

 

[waterwizard]

Today at 09:14 AM Lacmeh said this in Post #57

Still no one could come up with any evidence for the claim, that arming citizens causes criminals to own less guns.

No, it does not cause criminals to own less guns.  It causes them to think twice before preying on a victim.  If he thinks there is a chance he won't make it out alive, most of the time he won't do it.

The criminal is a predator, looking for the weakest victim; the one he knows will not be able to defend themselves. 

 

[waterwizard]

Today at 10:24 AM Evangelion said this in Post #58

manateelynn -



So you were saved by two locked doors.

The firearm was therefore unnecessary.

Thankyou.

Unnecessary at the time, maybe, but it's a good backup system if the primary system (locked doors) fails.