Christians.. desecrating the Sabbath

[holo]

Wrong. Any human being is either keeping the law, or breaking the law at any given moment in time.

Are you keeping it? Do you know anybody who do?

A true Christian keeps the law

But that's not what the bible says. The bible says we are DEAD to the law and that the law, like a diseased husband, has no claim on us. And furthermore, because we are NOT under the law, we are consequently NOT slaves to sin any longer.

by the power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, and if because of human weakness he falls, and repents of his sin, that is where Jesus covers his sin with his blood.

That's not grace, that's just mercy, like a safety net.

Your description of your Christian experience will only lead you to the fatal deception of "cheap grace", that is a "cloak for sin".

Speak for yourself. Maybe if you realized that you're righteous, you would go straight out and sin. I wouldn't, and don't. On the contrary, grace has set me FREE from sin. It's actually you who are preaching "cheap grace", a grace which is nothing but a safety net when you fall, a grace that doesn't actually do anything or change you into a better person. It's a diluted gospel, and it's the reason there's such an abundance of sin and bondage in the church today - people are still preaching the law, and the law is still the power of sin.

 

[holo]

Is Jesus God? Yes. Who gave to mankind the Ten Commandments? God. Did Jesus keep the Ten Commandments when He came to earth as a Man/God? Yes. Are we as professed followers of Jesus to "walk as He walked"? Yes.

If so, then why are you only keeping (not that you're really keeping them, though) the ten commandments and not the rest of the law like Jesus did? And why don't you teach in synagogues and heal the sick etc etc...

Think about it.

 

[holo]

Wrong. The Bible says in Hebrews 10:26, "For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. . . "

Jesus said "If you love me keep my commandments", therefore if you know what that means
and you choose to ignore it them, or some of them, then you are sinning plain and simple. You can't give the lame excuse that you didn't know which day the Sabbath was, or no one ever told what the Ten Commandments were.

The thing is, I don't believe Jesus' commandment to me is "keep the ten commandments". In fact, it would be SIN for me to KEEP the sabbath, since that would go against my conscience and conviction, just like it would be sin for some people to eat meat or drink wine - they can't do it with a pure heart, in faith. For me, trying to observe the sabbath or keep any other part of the law would be a betrayal against Christ and the freedom I have in Him. But if you are, as Paul says, "fully convinced in your own heart" that you are obliged to observe the sabbath in one way or another, do so! Keep it holy unto God, just like I keep every day holy unto God.

If you go about demanding that everybody else keep the sabbath according to your conviction, or if I go about demanding that nobody keep it according to mine, we both sin and miss the point completely.

 

[holo]

Exo 31:13
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Sure, but how and why do you figure that applies to gentiles today, in a completely different covenant?

 

[holo]

And although that law has been done away with. The 10 commandments are to be kept

I still don't see the bible saying that anywhere though.

 

[holo]

There have come along those who claim there is no law at all.

That's not true. The law is there, and it hasn't been changed. But there are a lot of people, including you, who claim that the law HAS been changed, and that the purpose of the law has changed. Personally, I believe the entire law still stands. But I am dead to it.

Dont get any SMOOTHER than that! Cant sin no matter what sin you commit and before things get bad they claim their god will beam them out of here.

Again, speak for yourself. Perhaps you would go out and "abuse" grace in that way, like Paul complained that some people were accusing the first christians of. But just because sinning would be your natural response to grace, don't assume that it will be ours.

 

[holo]

We are to still keep Gods feast days

"Still" to keep them? Are you jew, or under the old covenant? When exactly were gentiles, and believers under the new covenant, commanded to keep feasts or sabbaths?

 

[holo]

The 7th day Sabbath was not apart of those ordinances for the Sabbath was made long before these ordinances existed and the Sabbath is contained in the 10 commandments.

But that's not at all saying that neither gentiles nor those in the new covenant are under the ten commandments. If we were, then surely Paul would have said we are heirs to Moses, not Abraham.

 

[visionary]

Sure, but how and why do you figure that applies to gentiles today, in a completely different covenant?

show me where in the new covenant it doesn't apply to gentiles.

 

[holo]

show me where in the new covenant it doesn't apply to gentiles.

Uh... the law has nothing to do with the new covenant AT ALL. We believers are heirs to Abraham, who was justified by, and walked in, faith. Had we been heirs to Moses, on the other hand, we would've been under the law, and our inheritance would depend on our performance rather than the performance of Christ.

The old covenant was based on man's ability to keep commandments. The new covenant is based on the blood of Jesus. That's how we are justified simply by believing in Him. Observing some law will not make you any more righteous, and breaking it won't make you any less righteous - because your righteousness IS Jesus Christ. In this NEW covenant, you have already been crucified with Him. You died with Him and you rose with Him. The law has no more claim on you than it has on a dead man - in other words, none at all.

 

[ticker]

show me where in the new covenant it doesn't apply to gentiles.

...ugh.

How about this...

Good news! You have the victorious life of Christ now! Trust in Him to motivate your very desires, to enhance your abilities, to purify your thoughts...to be your very life, so you can live a supernatural existence that will enable you to carry out the miraculous calling you've been set apart to accomplish.

God has His plan for this world...you're a part of that plan. Relax, and let Him use you.

 

[BrightCandle]

Umm, I won't.

LLJ: What in the world or universe, would you be doing that could keep you away from that type of cosmic Sabbath worship service?

 

[BrightCandle]

We're not "keeping" the law. The fact that I don't steal has nothing to do with the law. When I'm kind to people, that's merely an expression of Christ in me. The law is for the wicked. I'm dead to the law and can neither keep nor break it.

Sure He would, and that's the whole point! The law wasn't given that we may keep it and thereby somehow attain righteousness or anything, it was given to make us guilty!

Holo: Your theological view of the Ten Commandments is the most twisted view that I have ever encountered on this forum. I don't know where you got your view, but even if you don't agree with the SDA view of the law, I would challenge you to call any number of pastors or priests in your local phone book and share with them your view of sin, the law, and its relation to Christians. I doubt that you would find 1 out of 100 pastors or priests that would agree with your view.

Paul said that the law is "holy, just, and good". Jesus never sinned, therefore Jesus never broke God's law, and the Good News is that even though we are sinful fallen human beings, we can be forgiven of all of our past sins, and be given the power of the Holy Spirit to stop sinning and breaking God's law, that is what it means to be born again. It changes people from the inside out. The theological view that you are promoting will create carnal Christians, who are Christians in name only, and who profess but deny the power of the God to change them from being lawless, to lawful and pure.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LLJ: What in the world or universe, would you be doing that could keep you away from that type of cosmic Sabbath worship service?

Hi. Well it will certainly not be in the earthly Jerusalem that is over in the country of Israel.

Luke 21:5 And certain saying about the Temple that to Stones ideal, and devoted-things/anaqhmasin <334> it hath been adorned/worlded/kekosmhtai <2885>, He said,

Hebrews 9:1 Had indeed then also former ordinances of divine-service/latreiaV <2999>, the besides holy, worldly/kosmikon <2886>.

 

[holo]

Holo: Your theological view of the Ten Commandments is the most twisted view that I have ever encountered on this forum. I don't know where you got your view, but even if you don't agree with the SDA view of the law, I would challenge you to call any number of pastors or priests in your local phone book and share with them your view of sin, the law, and its relation to Christians. I doubt that you would find 1 out of 100 pastors or priests that would agree with your view.

I know. Most christians apparently believe the law is the power against sin, not the power of sin, as the bible says. They also seem to believe that we are all alive to the law, when the bible says we are dead to it.

Paul said that the law is "holy, just, and good".

And he was right! He was also right when he said that the commandment is the power of sin and that when the commandment came, sin sprang to life.

Jesus never sinned, therefore Jesus never broke God's law, and the Good News is that even though we are sinful fallen human beings, we can be forgiven of all of our past sins, and be given the power of the Holy Spirit to stop sinning and breaking God's law, that is what it means to be born again.

Actually, that's just like 0.01% of the gospel. It's a diluted gospel that reduces grace to merely forgiveness, and that reduces Christ to nothing but a sacrificial lamb. It's a powerless gospel, it's a gospel that says "OK, we deleted your past sins, now go and perform better!"

It changes people from the inside out.

How? If you're not dead to the law which is the power of sin, how are you "changed"? Are YOU changed? Don't you even still call yourself a sinner? Don't you wonder what it is that keeps giving sin this power over you?

The theological view that you are promoting will create carnal Christians

Well, for me it did the exact opposite. But I used to be a carnal christian, all those years I tried to live according to the law.

What about you? Has the law made you any less "carnal"? Or do you struggle with sin just like you've always done? Has the law helped you not sin?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Well, for me it did the exact opposite. But I used to be a carnal christian, all those years I tried to live according to the law.

What about you? Has the law made you any less "carnal"? Or do you struggle with sin just like you've always done? Has the law helped you not sin?

[you must spread some reputation around before giving it to holo again!]

Luke 21:5 And certain saying about the Temple that to Stones ideal, and devoted-things/anaqhmasin <334> it hath been adorned/worlded/kekosmhtai <2885>, He said,

Reve 21:2 And the city, the holy, Jerusalem, New, I perceived descending out of the heaven from the God, having been made ready as bride having been adorned/worlded/kekosmhmenhn <2885> (5772) to the man of her.

 

[New_Wineskin]

quote by holo
Actually, that's just like 0.01% of the gospel. It's a diluted gospel that reduces grace to merely forgiveness, and that reduces Christ to nothing but a sacrificial lamb. It's a powerless gospel, it's a gospel that says "OK, we deleted your past sins, now go and perform better!"

That is exactly correct . Much of what Paul wrote is thrown out because people still want to say that they can earn their righteousness . All they have is a dead Christ for their past - not a resurrected one for their present and future .

 

[ticker]

Holo: Your theological view of the Ten Commandments is the most twisted view that I have ever encountered on this forum.

Then you haven't read mine (...which happens to be quite parallel to holo's). And I even go as far as to say that such a view isn't mere theology....it's simply life ('cause that's what it gives).

People can sit around here and theologize all they want about what they think is the "correct" understanding of scripture relating to Law (...defending whatever it is they might believe). Theology doesn't give life though....only the Gospel does.

 

[TheCheat1]

"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." -Jesus, Mark 2:27.

"I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day . . ." -Apostle John, Revelation 1:10.

Early Christians rested on Sunday because that was the day that Jesus rose from the dead. We follow in their example. The Sabbath was made for man-- man was not made for the Sabbath. We're supposed to rest in Christ 24/7, not one day of the week:

"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." -Jesus, Matthew 11:28.

 

[visionary]

The CREATOR seeks YOUR WORSHIP on THIS HOLY SABBATH DAY, Will you choose to OBEY GOD or man? THE BIBLE ANSWERS THIS FOR US: WE OUGHT TO OBEY GOD RATHER THAN MEN (ACTS 5:29)