Christians.. desecrating the Sabbath

[LittleLambofJesus]

Because God chose that day... remember Him testing the Israelites before they even got to Mount Sinai.. to see if they would obey His law or not.

Did they have Monday thru Sunday calenders back then

 

[tulc]

I believe it has to do with six days of labor... can't rest from the physical labor seven days a week. The Lord also wanted a day set aside for Him.. He chose the seventh day, santified it, and blessed it... now He is inviting you into His rest.

Aren't you limiting it to a purely physical thing looking at it that way? It's then a command to be kept instead of something a lot deeper?
tulc(just something that struck me)

 

[holo]

I'm not trying to put anyone under condemnation, I'm just trying to share a forgotten truth.
Look at it this way, you are under grace now, but keep the other nine commandments don't you? I mean, you are not killing anyone or robbing banks, right?

We're not "keeping" the law. The fact that I don't steal has nothing to do with the law. When I'm kind to people, that's merely an expression of Christ in me. The law is for the wicked. I'm dead to the law and can neither keep nor break it.

Apply the same principle to the keeping of the Sabbath. Jesus would not give mankind a commandment that could not be kept.

Sure He would, and that's the whole point! The law wasn't given that we may keep it and thereby somehow attain righteousness or anything, it was given to make us guilty!

After all they were designed for our happiness.

That's the fundamental misunderstanding...

 

[holo]

Of course not, but the legalist were those of the letter of the law, and not the intent.

The intent of the law is to make sin exceedingly sinful. That's what the law will do, no matter what people are trying to use it for.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The intent of the law is to make sin exceedingly sinful. That's what the law will do, no matter what people are trying to use it for.

Flee from the LAW of Death and the Grave!!

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Matt 10:23 "Whenever yet they may be pursuing/persecuting/diwkwsin <1377> (5725) ye in the city, this, be fleeing into the other.
For Amen I am saying to ye, not no ye should be finishing the cities of the Israel till ever may be coming the Son of the Man".

Reve 12:13 And when perceived, the Dragon that it was cast into the land, it chases/pursues/ediwxen <1377> (5656) the woman who-any brought forth the male.

 

[holo]

.

What is the difference between..

Thou shalt not commit adultry
and
I tell you that if you look upon a woman with lust you have already committed adultry in your heart.

The light of the Holy Spirit shining upon the Ten Commandments.

Which is stricter and which do we have to keep.. the second one...by the grace of God and by the strength given through His Holy Spirit.

In light of the Holy Spirit, there is more than the plan writting of the law upon stone, and this enlarged understanding of the spirutual truth fround in the spiritual law of the new covenant with God in our hearts, is where we all have to be.

The new covenant has nothing whatsoever to do with the law. We are heirs to Abraham, who walked in faith, not to Moses who was in a covenant where blessings depended on his performance. Jesus made the demands of the law very clear. But people seem to think that just because Jesus said something, it was the new covenant. But it wasnt. The new covenant started when Jesus died, not when He taught and explained the law and its demands.

So we don't have to keep anything. We are justified by faith, and we are to live and walk in faith. We don't achieve or deserve any of the blessings Father give us. It's all -ALL- because of Christ.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The new covenant has nothing whatsoever to do with the law. We are heirs to Abraham, who walked in faith, not to Moses who was in a covenant where blessings depended on his performance. Jesus made the demands of the law very clear. But people seem to think that just because Jesus said something, it was the new covenant. But it wasnt. The new covenant started when Jesus died, not when He taught and explained the law and its demands.
................

Luke 16:26 And on all of these, between Us [NC Faith/Life] and Ye [OC Law/Death] a great chasm hath been established, so that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye not be able to, no yet thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276>.

Hebrews 11:29 By Faith They crossed-over/diebhsan <1224> (5627) the Red Sea as thru Dry: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

 

[tulc]

Hey Sunlover,

Don't you think that Jesus could help you keep the Sabbath day holy and still be under grace?

...except haven't you then superseded grace by having to obey the Law?

I'm not trying to put anyone under condemnation, I'm just trying to share a forgotten truth.

It's not a "forgotten truth" it's the same thing people have been trying to do since beginning of the Church (or else why would Paul have to even address it?) people assuming what they feel called to do is God calling for everyone to do the same.
tulc(it happens to all of us at one time or another)

 

[New_Wineskin]

quote
I'm not trying to put anyone under condemnation, I'm just trying to share a forgotten truth.

That is not true . If you were sharing , it wouldn't matter is people accepted what was shared . Repeatedly calling it a "command" for the audience and talking about it over and over *shows* that you are trying to put people under condemnation .


quote
Look at it this way, you are under grace now, but keep the other nine commandments don't you?

As a result of reading the Law and saying that it is for me and then doing it simply because it was written ? No , I don't .


quote
I mean, you are not killing anyone or robbing banks, right?

Wrong . I don't do those things because it is not a part of my nature . My not doing them isn't based on reading commands given to the Israelites .


quote
Apply the same principle to the keeping of the Sabbath.

Ok . Then , you should accept that keeping the Sabbath should only be done if it is natural and not a result of reading the Scriptures . *That* would be the same principle .


quote
Jesus would not give mankind a commandment that could not be kept.

This is not a discussion of commands of Jesus but of the Law presented to Moses to the Israelites . Jesus didn't give me any written commands about the Sabbath .


quote
The secret is to ask the Holy Spirit in its fullness, and then the keeping of all 10 of the commandments will not be a burden but a joy. After all they were designed for our happiness.

You don't want the Holy Spirit to be any part of it . You want people to observe the written code ( even though you , yourself , refuse to obeserve the Sabbath ) - not the Spirit . If it was about the Spirit , you wouldn't insist on it and you certainly wouldn't bring up the written code . If it is about the Spirit , it wouldn't be about *you* and it wouldn't be about the written code .

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You don't want the Holy Spirit to be any part of it . You want people to observe the written code ( even though you , yourself , refuse to obeserve the Sabbath ) - not the Spirit . If it was about the Spirit , you wouldn't insist on it and you certainly wouldn't bring up the written code . If it is about the Spirit , it wouldn't be about *you* and it wouldn't be about the written code .

Hi. This is one reason Orthodox Jews and Messianics are at odds with each other.

In fact an Orthodox Jew actually started a thread on the Picture I have in my Siggy but I couldn't explain it to her because they do not believe JESUS is their Messiah, nor did He accomplish ALL THINGS as they expect Him to. Thoughts

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7238619&page=2
Picture: The Scroll, the Serpent, and our Salvation

quote Orthodox Jew:

Get on your analytical "art appreciation" hats:

Little Lamb of Jesus has included in his tagline area a picture called, "The Scroll, the Serpent, and our Salvation." It got my interest. It is highly controversial due to some of its interpretations. For many people, none of these deeper meanings are readily apparent. You never know why someone likes or hates this picture, and I thought it would be a good subject for discussion. Can you tell me what the images in the picture and their relationship to each other means to you?

 

[BrightCandle]

He didn't give mankind any commandment, except the command to repent and believe.

Is Jesus God? Yes. Who gave to mankind the Ten Commandments? God. Did Jesus keep the Ten Commandments when He came to earth as a Man/God? Yes. Are we as professed followers of Jesus to "walk as He walked"? Yes.

 

[calluna]

Is Jesus God? Yes. Who gave to mankind the Ten Commandments?

No-one.

 

[BrightCandle]

I'm dead to the law and can neither keep nor break it.

Wrong. Any human being is either keeping the law, or breaking the law at any given moment in time. A true Christian keeps the law by the power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, and if because of human weakness he falls, and repents of his sin, that is where Jesus covers his sin with his blood. Your description of your Christian experience will only lead you to the fatal deception of "cheap grace", that is a "cloak for sin".

 

[tulc]

Are we as professed followers of Jesus to "walk as He walked"? Yes.

uhmmm you mean love the Lord and our neighbor? Yep I can agree with that.
Do you mean I'm supposed to become a first century Jew living in Israel? No, I don't think that's what that means.
tulc(thinks the first portion is the correct one but has no problem if you want to do the second one)

 

[visionary]

Did they have Monday thru Sunday calenders back then

No, they have First day through to Shabbat... seven days a week. In Hebrew, the days of the week are simply numbered, except for the 7th, which is the Sabbath (Shabbat).

Monday through sunday calendars are a recent development that has yet to gain credulance for the common man. The first edition of the ISO 8601 standard was published in 1988.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Are we as professed followers of Jesus to "walk as He walked"? Yes.

Umm sorry no. We do not have to walk in into a Temple and offer sacrifices for atonement as JESUS and His Jewish followers did.
Btw, whatever happened to that Temple/Sanctuary

Matthew 5:18 "For amen I am saying to ye, till ever may-be-passing-away/parelqh <3928> (5632) the Heaven and the Land, iota one or one horn not no may-be-passing-away/parelqh <3928> (5632) from the Law, till ever all shall-be-becoming/genhtai <1096> (5638) "

2 Corin 5:17 So that if any in Christ, a new Creation, the former-things/arcaia <744> pass-away/parhlqen <3928> (5627). Behold! has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754) New the all-things

Reve 16:17 and the seventh one pours out the bowl of him upon the air and came out voice, great, out of the sanctuary from the throne saying :"it-has-become"/gegonen <1096> (5754).

 

[tulc]

Wrong. Any human being is either keeping the law, or breaking the law at any given moment in time. A true Christian keeps the law by the power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, and if because of human weakness he falls, and repents of his sin, that is where Jesus covers his sin with his blood.

Ahhh! So we DO have to keep the Law in order to have a right standing with God?

Your description of your Christian experience will only lead you to the fatal deception of "cheap grace", that is a "cloak for sin".

hmmmm you mean if someone believes different from you they're wrong and just looking for an excuse for their sin?
tulc(suspects that's not right)

 

[visionary]

No-one.

so where did they come from... if noone gave the ten commandments.

 

[calluna]

so where did they come from.

They never came.

 

[visionary]

Ahhh! So we DO have to keep the Law in order to have a right standing with God?


hmmmm you mean if someone believes different from you they're wrong?
tulc(suspects that's not right)

Therefore repent while there is still time after all you would not want to be known as "the least "

Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called "the least" in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called "great" in the kingdom of heaven.

Wouldn't you rather have the Lord point to you and say you are "great".