Christians.. desecrating the Sabbath

[tulc]

The eye for an eye civil law was relieved by Jesus who showed the principle of love. All of the sacrifices and the strict ordinances that were being kept were made void by Christ.

Here's where I always get a little confused, how do you decide which of the Laws still apply and which ones don't? I'm obligated to "keep the Sabbath" but it's ok to wear mixed fabrics?
tulc(is coffee legal?)

 

[mont974x4]

Here's where I always get a little confused, how do you decide which of the Laws still apply and which ones don't? I'm obligated to "keep the Sabbath" but it's ok to wear mixed fabrics?
tulc(is coffee legal?)

cooffee is OK, but can we have mixed berry pie with it?

 

[holo]

So in order to defend this position, you have to back yourselves into the corner of lawlessness..

??

Being dead to the law is the same as being "lawless"? If so, Paul was lawless, not to mention every single person who lived from Adam up until Moses.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Here's where I always get a little confused, how do you decide which of the Laws still apply and which ones don't? I'm obligated to "keep the Sabbath" but it's ok to wear mixed fabrics?
tulc(is coffee legal?)

Hi Tulc. Do you drink Kosher coffee?

zeph 1:7 Hush! in presence of my Lord YHWH, that near Day of YHWH. That YHWH prepares a sacrifice, He sanctifies called ones of Him.
8 And He becomes in Day of sacrifice of YHWH and I visit on the chiefs, and on sons of the King, and on all of ones being clothed clothing foreign. [Matt 22:11]

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Here's where I always get a little confused, how do you decide which of the Laws still apply and which ones don't? I'm obligated to "keep the Sabbath" but it's ok to wear mixed fabrics?
tulc(is coffee legal?)

Different laws were given for different reasons.

We have civil laws. But the civil laws in Grenanda are not the same as the civil laws in New York. Those are the laws that give the penalty for breaching the law. The laws that state that a woman caught in adultery should be stoned is a civil law. But they apply only to that particular nation. So a breach of one of the 10 commandments might lead to stoning. But stoning is a civil law applying to the Israelites. Those laws can change. That is why Jesus defended the woman caught in adultery.

Then there were the ceremonial laws which were all about atonement for sin. Sacrifices, ordinances, holy days like the day of atonement. Those things were made void by the blood of Christ sin his blood now atones for sin. You don't have to agree but can you see where I am coming from.

 

[MamaZ]

Different laws were given for different reasons.

We have civil laws. But the civil laws in Grenanda are not the same as the civil laws in New York. Those are the laws that give the penalty for breaching the law. The laws that state that a woman caught in adultery should be stoned is a civil law. But they apply only to that particular nation. So a breach of one of the 10 commandments might lead to stoning. But stoning is a civil law applying to the Israelites. Those laws can change. That is why Jesus defended the woman caught in adultery.

Then there were the ceremonial laws which were all about atonement for sin. Sacrifices, ordinances, holy days like the day of atonement. Those things were made void by the blood of Christ sin his blood now atones for sin. You don't have to agree but can you see where I am coming from.

Paul warns us that to put ourselves under one law we are then under the WHOLE law..

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

??

Being dead to the law is the same as being "lawless"? If so, Paul was lawless, not to mention every single person who lived from Adam up until Moses.

Greetings holo. Didn't we have a hugh discussion/thread on this awhile back concerning the Commandments?
I will try and find it and welcome back to CF bro!!!

[You must spread some reputation around before giving it to holo again!]

Romans 5:14 But reigns the death from Adam until Moses and upon the ones no sinning upon the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of the being-about/mellontoV <3195> (5723).

2 Timothy 4:1 Thru-witnessing then I, before the GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ, of the being-about/mellontoV <3195> (5723) to be judging living and dead, according as the manifestation of Him and the Kingdom of Him

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7131625
2 Timothy 4:1 translation

 

[Celticflower]

There is no direct recommand for Sabbath keeping in the new testament. But the practice is continued by Jesus who showed exactly how the Sabbath should be kept.

yup, by walking too far, picking grain to eat, healing .......

 

[holo]

Different laws were given for different reasons.

We have civil laws. But the civil laws in Grenanda are not the same as the civil laws in New York. Those are the laws that give the penalty for breaching the law. The laws that state that a woman caught in adultery should be stoned is a civil law. But they apply only to that particular nation. So a breach of one of the 10 commandments might lead to stoning. But stoning is a civil law applying to the Israelites. Those laws can change. That is why Jesus defended the woman caught in adultery.

Then there were the ceremonial laws which were all about atonement for sin. Sacrifices, ordinances, holy days like the day of atonement. Those things were made void by the blood of Christ sin his blood now atones for sin. You don't have to agree but can you see where I am coming from.

But does the bible say this? Does the bible divide the law into certain "civil" or "ceremonial" parts? And when was (a certain portion of) the law extended to apply not only to gentiles, even to believers, who are not only supposedly DEAD to the law, but heirs to Abraham, who lived by FAITH?

No, the bible is clear, and Jesus even made a point of it, saying that He came NOT to abolish the law, that in fact not an IOTA of it should pass until it was all fulfilled. To claim that you as a gentile and/or born again believer is under a certain part of the mosaic law is simply indefensible from the bible. IF you are under the law, you are under the ENTIRE law. If you are NOT under the law, you are not under ANY of the law. Like Abraham, who is our spiritual forefather. He wasn't under the law. I don't see exactly why so many of you WANT to be under the law, anyway.

 

[Celticflower]

Some people think that Paul did away with the Sabbath and other biblical Holy Days when he wrote in Romans 14:5-6: that “One person esteems “one day” above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it”

They think that Paul is referring to God’s Sabbaths even though the Sabbath is not mentioned in thewhole book of Romans. Paul and the other New Testament writers did not call the Sabbath “one day.”
Did you know that Paul quotes from the Old Testament 84 times in this one letter to support his teaching.
He never thought for one moment of doing away with the Sabbath or any other of the Ten Commandments.

Paul, while in Corinth, “reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks” (Acts18:1, 4).
Did he write to the church in Rome to tell them Sabbath-keeping was irrelevant while teaching Jews and gentiles “every Sabbath” in Corinth? I don’t think so. No matter where Paul went, the book ofActs shows Paul’s custom was to keep the fourth commandment / Sabbath (Acts 17:2).

We can not make anything holy. Yet we are commanded to remember the Sabbath and to keep it holy. We can’t keep something holy that God has not made holy. If you look in Lev. 23:1-2 you will learn that, God calls His weekly Sabbath and annual Feast days His. They are notIsrael’s or the Jew’s. They are God’s

Our example is this: Follow it or not, it’s up to you.
Lk.4:16 So He (Jesus) came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.


Act. 17:1-2 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Act. 13:42-44 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words mightbe preached to them the next Sabbath. (Now here was the perfect place for Paul to say, you don’t have to worry about that old Sabbath thing. I will meet with you tomorrow on the first day of the week.) 43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continuein the grace of God.
44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
Act. 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.
Act. 18:4And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.
Now in verse 11 we read that Paul lived there for a year and six months. Since he “reasoned in the synagogueevery Sabbath” that’s 78 weekly Sabbaths and about 10 annual Sabbaths.


Further proof that this common interpretation of Romans 14 is wrong can be found in Paul’s first epistle to the Corinthians. He wrote this epistle in or around A.D. 55, shortly beforehe came to Corinth (1 Corinthians 16:5-6) on the visit during which he would write his epistleto the Romans. What do we find he tells the Corinthians in this letter?
• He tells them to keep the biblical Feast of Unleavened Bread in the proper manner, understanding its spiritual intent (1 Corinthians 5:7-8; compare Leviticus 23:6). • He instructs them on how to keep the
New Testament Passover as a commemoration of Jesus Christ’s death (1 Corinthians 11:23-30).
• He reminds them that “Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us” (1 Corinthians 5:7).
• He writes that he intends to journey to them, but that he will first stay in Ephesus until after the biblical Feast of Pentecost has passed (1 Corinthians 16:8).

If you accept the common misinterpretation of the book of Romans, you would have to conclude that Paul instructed the Corinthians in how to properly observe the Passover, thathe told them to keep the biblical Feast of Unleavened Bread, and that he noted he was staying in Ephesus until after the biblical Feast of Pentecost—and the very next year wrote to the Romans that none of this mattered and was all unnecessary.
On the other hand, if you understand Paul’s teaching to the Romans as it is truthfully presented in this chapter, you will see complete agreement between his actions and the letters he wrote to Church members both in Rome and Corinth.

Could it be that Paul did all these on the Sabbath and at the synagogue because that is when and where the people were gathered together and it gave him an audience to address??
(just a thought. Now where is Tulc with the coffee??)

 

[visionary]

Could it be that Paul did all these on the Sabbath and at the synagogue because that is when and where the people were gathered together and it gave him an audience to address??
(just a thought. Now where is Tulc with the coffee??)

Then what was he doing beside the altar to the unknown god ?

 

[Celticflower]

Then what was he doing beside the altar to the unknown god ?

That is where the people were? I don't think Paul spent a lot of time talking in empty rooms.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

........ To claim that you as a gentile and/or born again believer is under a certain part of the mosaic law is simply indefensible from the bible. IF you are under the law, you are under the ENTIRE law. If you are NOT under the law, you are not under ANY of the law. Like Abraham, who is our spiritual forefather. He wasn't under the law. I don't see exactly why so many of you WANT to be under the law, anyway.

Galations 5:3 I am testifying yet again to every man circumcising, that debtor he is whole the law to do.

James 2:10 For whosoever whole the law should be keeping, should be stumbling yet in one, has become of all liable. [Romans 11:11]

 

[visionary]

That is where the people were? I don't think Paul spent a lot of time talking in empty rooms.

So, that means he will evangelize everywhere at any time, but he still worships as a Jew.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So, that means he will evangelize everywhere at any time, but he still worships as a Jew.

Wasn't he also trained as a Pharisee and yes he was a Jew of the Tribe of Benjamin and a Hebrew of Hebrews Israelite. Thoughts?

Matt 23:15 "Woe to ye scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! that ye are going-about the Sea and the Dry to make one proselyte, and whenever he may be becoming, ye are making him a son of geennhV <1067> twofold-more of-ye. [Luke 23:31]

 

[Alethes]

Well then can you read post #229 and #248 and tell me your views on how I believe the bible explains those shadows.

You started out by giving the wrong tense to prove your case. How you believe the Bible explains "shadow" is "not how the Bible explains shadow." I have already given the meaning of shadow based on the true Greek tense, voice and mood.

 

[ticker]

The sabbath commandment was never done away with, but then neither was the rest of the law. Nobody has the authority to go about changing the law. Adventists are just as guilty as everybody else here; the law does NOT consist of ten commandments, but of 613. You can NOT just pick and choose which commandments apply to you and which you can ignore.

If you are under the law, you are under the entire law.

So the entire law still stands. However, the law
a) was given to Israel
b) is for the wicked and ungodly
c) applies to the living
b) was given to make sin exceedingly sinful
c) had its time until John
d) is part of the old covenant, and
e) is the power of sin.

I'm not an Israelite, I'm not wicked and ungodly, I'm dead with Christ, I'm in the NEW covenant, and I have no particular reason to try and make sin exceedingly sinful and to go about empowering sin.

But if you for some reason would like to be under the law, you're obligated to be under the ENTIRE law.

Wuzzat? Could that be the gospel I hear within the confines of this thread?

Nahhhh. Can't be.

 

[mont974x4]

Paul was sent to the Gentiles, and the unknown god altar was in Corinth, wasn't it? Not a Jewish city?


Can anyone show a verse that has the NT Church, gentile converts specifically, going to a synagogue and joining Jewish worship?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You started out by giving the wrong tense to prove your case. How you believe the Bible explains "shadow" is "not how the Bible explains shadow." I have already given the meaning of shadow based on the true Greek tense, voice and mood.

Hi. Matt 4:16 uses that word which comes from Isaiah 60:2.
What verses were you discussing?

http://www.scripture4all.org/
[Tenses taking from this interlinear]

Matt 4:16 The people, the one-sitting in darkness/skotei <4655> perceived a Light, great.
And/also to-the ones-sitting in part and shadow/skia <4639> of death, a Light springs-up to-them. [Isaiah 60:2]

#4639 Used 7 times.

Hebrew 8:5 Who-any to example and shadow/skia <4639> divinely-serving of the on-heavenlies according as has been apprised Moses being about being to be finishing the booth, for "be thou seeing"! He is declaring "thou shall be doing all according to the type the one being shown to thee in the mountain".

Hebrew 10:1 For a shadow/skian <4639> having the Law of being about goods not itself the image of the practices according to year-it to the same sacrifices which they are toward-carrying into the finality never is able of the ones coming to perfection

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm
Greek texts taken from here

 

[New_Wineskin]

quote:
So in order to defend this position, you have to back yourselves into the corner of lawlessness..

Why do you write that ?