Christians.. desecrating the Sabbath

[LittleLambofJesus]

Tulc and Holo are 2 people that i have gotten confused with in the past because of their views on the law. Holo is more work though. They seem similar to me. But still it's my mistake.

Holo is Da Man!!!!

Miykah 4:2 And Nations go, many ones, and they say 'Go ye! and we shall ascend to mountain of YHWH and to house of Elohiym of Ya`aqob, and He shall direct us from ways of Him and we shall go in paths of Him. That from Tsiyown a-Law shall go forth, and a-Word of YHWH from Y@ruwshalaim

Revelation 14:1 And I saw and Behold! The arnion <721> standing on the mountain Zion/siwn <4622> and with it hundred forty four thousands having the name of it, and the name of the father of it having been written on of the fore-heads of them.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Holo is Da Man!!!!

Miykah 4:2 And Nations go, many ones, and they say 'Go ye! and we shall ascend to mountain of YHWH and to house of Elohiym of Ya`aqob, and He shall direct us from ways of Him and we shall go in paths of Him. That from Tsiyown a-Law shall go forth, and a-Word of YHWH from Y@ruwshalaim

Revelation 14:1 And I saw and Behold! The arnion <721> standing on the mountain Zion/siwn <4622> and with it hundred forty four thousands having the name of it, and the name of the father of it having been written on of the fore-heads of them.

Who is the woman?

 

[New_Wineskin]

Go Holo !!!

Live by the Spirit - not the written code .

 

[ticker]

Yeah....that holo guy is onto somethin'.

 

[holo]

Ok Holo.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Which law is Paul talking about here? Is he referring to the 613 laws or a particular set of laws?

He's referring to a few of the commandments of the law. "...and if there be any other commandment" deals with the rest, I guess.

But the real question is; when was the law divided? When was it changed? When did not only an iota, but 603 commandments pass away? When was the law given to the gentiles? When was it given to us who are in the new covenant? When did the law begin to be for the righteous and holy? When did the law cease to be the power of sin? When did the law become the power against sin?

And anyway, the fact that I don't steal, and the law happens to demand that you don't, doesn't mean I'm somehow under the law.

Jam 2:8 If ye fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
Jam 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jam 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jam 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

When James refers to the Royal law is he speaking of the 613 laws as well?

I think it's not the mosaic law he's referring to here. If I understand things correctly, the word we usually translates as "law" often actually refers to "teaching", or the "torah". Anyway, Paul specifically refers to the ten commandments as the ministry of death, and it's obviously not a law of "liberty" - just imagine if you were to be judged according to the mosaic law; would it be a "law of liberty" to you? No, the law is the ministry of condemnation.

As James says here, if you are to keep the law and offend in just one point of it, you have violated the entire law. That doesn't mean every sin is as grave as any other, but that the law demands absolute perfection. Either you keep the entire law perfectly, or you don't keep the law at all.

 

[holo]

The question is, What does it mean to be under the law? Being under the law does not mean abiding by the law.

I agree. I suppose you abide by the laws in your country (USA?). Does that mean you're "not under" the law? No, the entire reason you try to keep it is because you are under it in the first place.

That said, being under the mosaic law IS to be under a curse, because "cursed is everyone who does not continue TO DO ALL THE THINGS WRITTEN IN THE LAW..."
Being under the law is in effect being under condemnation. Being under the law means being a slave to sin. No wonder, because that's exactly what God meant for the law to do in the first place; to make us all stand guilty. The commandment is the power of sin. When the commandment comes, sin springs to life. The more you're trying to live according to the law, the more you will sin.

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Being under the law means being under the condemnation of the law. The wages of sin is death and sin comes because of the presence of the law.

Exactly

If you see being under the law as being subject to the law then that is not what the bible proves.

What do you mean? How can you be under the law but not subject to it?

To be carnally minded or living by the flesh is death because the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God.

Sure, but who's carnally minded? Are you? If so, the law IS for you - it's for the wicked and ungodly, supposed to make you stand guilty before God.

So sin works death in Paul.

Yes, by taking advantage of the commandment.

He speaks from a perspective of a carnal man in the flesh.

I think I agree with that. Let's make sure WE speak from the right perspective, then. I think most all the misunderstandings about the law stems from the belief that we aren't in fact born again, righteous, or children of God, but sinners.

You will agree that if you are not under grace you are lost, thus under the law. So being under the law cannot mean being subject to it, but being condemned by it.

When you say "subject" to the law, do you mean "keeping the law"? Not sure if I'm reading you correctly.

If you see being under the law as being obedient to God's law then Abraham was under the law. Your move Holo.

Abraham (pretty much) obeyed God and did what God commanded him to do. God has commanded me to live not according to the letter, but according to the Spirit. He has not commanded me to try and keep the law, He has commanded me to believe in Him who IS my righteousness.

 

[visionary]

The question is, What does it mean to be under the law? Being under the law does not mean abiding by the law.

Excuse me, you are under the laws of this land, you are under the laws of the is county you live in, and you are under the laws of the city ordinances that you drive in. We are all under the law of God. He wil render judgement based upon those laws.

 

[holo]

We are all under the law of God. He wil render judgement based upon those laws.

No, we who are saved will be judged not according to the law (in which case we would all go straight to hell) but according to Christ.

It's not our success at keeping the law that is our righteousness. It is Jesus Christ who is our righteousness. It's bloody unfair, I know, but it's the truth. The punishment was laid on HIM.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Excuse me, you are under the laws of this land, you are under the laws of the is county you live in, and you are under the laws of the city ordinances that you drive in. We are all under the law of God. He wil render judgement based upon those laws.

Hi. What do you make of John 5:45 then?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

John 5:45 `No be ye supposing that I shall be accusing of-ye toward the Father; is the one accusing/kathgorwn <2723> (5723) of-ye, Moses into whom ye have hoped; [Luke 23:13]

Reve 12:10 And I hear great voice saying in the Heaven: "Now became the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of the God of us, and the authority of the Christ of Him, that was cast the Accuser of the brothers of us, the accusing/kathgorwn <2723> (5723) them in sight of the GOD of us day and night".

 

[calluna]

Excuse me, you are under the laws of this land, you are under the laws of the is county you live in, and you are under the laws of the city ordinances that you drive in. We are all under the law of God.

Not if our true citizenship is in heaven, because we are then 'in Christ' who has fulfilled the law. There is 'no condemnation' for those people. They have the law of the conscience, as Abraham had it, and as all humanity has it. But the conscience of the saint is enlivened and made more sensitive by the Holy Spirit, who guides into all truth, and empowers to overcome sin, to produce fruits that the Mosaic Law could not.

For those who accept Him, Christ sets the conscience free, wiping out all guilt of past sins. That motivates the saints to live for Him, because whoever has been forgiven much, loves much.

'How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance — now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.' Heb 9:14-15 NIV

 

[PROPHECYKID]

He's referring to a few of the commandments of the law. "...and if there be any other commandment" deals with the rest, I guess.

Of what law. What i mean is, the use of the word law is either making reference to the 10 commandments or the 613 laws as one. Love has nothing to do with stoning a woman caught in adultery. The point I am trying to prove is that the 10 commandments are referred to many places in the bible as simply the law.

But the real question is; when was the law divided?

God's 10 commandments were seperated from everything that Moses wrote with his own hand. The 10 commandments were placed in the ark whereas Moses' book of the law was placed on the side, outside the ark.

When was it changed?

The law was never changed.

When did not only an iota, but 603 commandments pass away?

Does abolish are blot out mean to pass away? If so then the bible tells us when. Additionally as I was trying to prove above, Matthew 5: 19 refers to the 10 commandments and not the other laws.

When was the law given to the gentiles? When was it given to us who are in the new covenant?

I hope that you know that the new covenant was made with the house of Israel and not with gentiles.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

But Paul also says something special that makes gentiles apart of this as well.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

There is neither Jew or Greek. The reason the new covenant is made particularly with the house of Israel is because the messiah is supposed to confirm the covenant with them hoping that they would accept him. SInce that did not happen the Gospel went to the gentiles and therefore they can be grafted in.

When did the law begin to be for the righteous and holy? When did the law cease to be the power of sin? When did the law become the power against sin?

Just one thing, if the law was not for the righteous then it why did Paul serve the law of God in his mind, why do the saints keep the commandments, why did Jesus prove keeping the commandments as a result of love and why did Paul say that love is the fulfilling of the law.

The law is the power of sin. God deals with this power and result of sin not by getting rid of the law but by giving grace. The presence of the law leads to sin and sin leads to death. But when grace steps in the power of sin is still the law but sin leads to naught because grace covers it. And it is by grace we are saved not by getting rid of the law.

And anyway, the fact that I don't steal, and the law happens to demand that you don't, doesn't mean I'm somehow under the law.

You agreed earlier that being under the law does not mean abiding by the law so I will think that you are looking at it in that way. You are correct about what you said above.

I think it's not the mosaic law he's referring to here. If I understand things correctly, the word we usually translates as "law" often actually refers to "teaching", or the "torah".

No he is referring to the 10 commandments. But he says the Royal law. He knows that it is different to the rest and here he makes reference to it as Paul did when he said that Love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Anyway, Paul specifically refers to the ten commandments as the ministry of death,

When you look at it in comparison to Romans 7 you will understand why he termed it that way.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good (the law) made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

He speaks from the carnal man's view. The commandments will be into death to such as person.

and it's obviously not a law of "liberty" - just imagine if you were to be judged according to the mosaic law; would it be a "law of liberty" to you? No, the law is the ministry of condemnation.

But you said that you don't think that he is referring to the mosaic law. This is speaking about the Royal law.

As James says here, if you are to keep the law and offend in just one point of it, you have violated the entire law (Royal Law). That doesn't mean every sin is as grave as any other, but that the law demands absolute perfection. Either you keep the entire law perfectly, or you don't keep the law at all.

If that be the case then what is the purpose of grace. Grace pickes up the slack where you slack off. Where you are weak grace takes it up. Where you are strong grace takes it up. No one is perfect. God knows that and that is why he gives grace. If a man never commits sin then why should he need to be saved by grace from sin.

 

[holo]

Of what law. What i mean is, the use of the word law is either making reference to the 10 commandments or the 613 laws as one. Love has nothing to do with stoning a woman caught in adultery. The point I am trying to prove is that the 10 commandments are referred to many places in the bible as simply the law.

In the NT, the only time the ten commandments are mentioned as some sort of separate law, is when Paul calls it the ministry of death, engraved on stone. Other than that, I have no reason to think that the jews (or God!) operated with several different laws.

But the real question is; when was the law divided?

God's 10 commandments were seperated from everything that Moses wrote with his own hand. The 10 commandments were placed in the ark whereas Moses' book of the law was placed on the side, outside the ark.

But how does that mean that the we, today, are somehow under those ten commandments? How does that mean that those ten commandments of the law are somehow part of the new covenant?

The law was never changed.

But something must've changed, since I, as a gentile and righteous born-again believer in the new covenant, is somehow under this particular part of the law...

Does abolish are blot out mean to pass away? If so then the bible tells us when. Additionally as I was trying to prove above, Matthew 5: 19 refers to the 10 commandments and not the other laws.

That basically reduces Christ to nothing more than the ultimate sacrificial lamb - the law still stimulates sin, we are still condemned by it, but we luckily just don't have offer animals? That's the impression I'm getting, anyway (hope I'm wrong). It's a diluted gospel if you ask me.

I hope that you know that the new covenant was made with the house of Israel and not with gentiles.

The new covenant is made with anyone and everyone who believe. It's a covenant not based on our performance, but on the blood of Christ.

Just one thing, if the law was not for the righteous then it why did Paul serve the law of God in his mind

Well, the bible plainly says that the law isn't for the righteous but for the wicked and ungodly. The law also has a particular purpose - to make sin exceedingly sinful. God obviously doesn't want anyone, sinners or saints, to sin.

why do the saints keep the commandments

Why do you figure "the commandments" here refers to the ten commandments?

why did Jesus prove keeping the commandments as a result of love

What do you mean?

and why did Paul say that love is the fulfilling of the law.

Love mey be the fulfilling of the law, but the law isn't the fulfilling of love.

The law is the power of sin. God deals with this power and result of sin not by getting rid of the law but by giving grace. The presence of the law leads to sin and sin leads to death. But when grace steps in the power of sin is still the law but sin leads to naught because grace covers it. And it is by grace we are saved not by getting rid of the law.

That's just the beginning, though

Grace is much more than covering our sins. Grace is DYING and being born again. Grace is not that the law is abolished, but that WE are abolished - as Paul says, the law has dominion over a man only as long as he lives. When he is dead, he is released from the law. To assume or demand that I am somehow obligated to try and keep the ten commandments or any other part of the law, is like demanding a dead person start observing American laws; it's impossible, it doesn't make any sense. He's dead, he can neither keep nor break any law.

Likewise, we are dead with Christ. We were crucified with Him. He didn't merely die FOR us, we died WITH Him. We DIED. That means that the law has no business neither motivating us nor condeming us

You agreed earlier that being under the law does not mean abiding by the law so I will think that you are looking at it in that way. You are correct about what you said above.

Yep. The law doesn't motivate any of my actions.

No he is referring to the 10 commandments. But he says the Royal law. He knows that it is different to the rest and here he makes reference to it as Paul did when he said that Love is the fulfilling of the law.

The ten commandments can't be both "the law of liberty" and "the ministry of death". What is it do you, by the way? Freedom or condemnation?

 

[holo]

When you look at it in comparison to Romans 7 you will understand why he termed it that way.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good (the law) made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

He speaks from the carnal man's view. The commandments will be into death to such as person.

Exactly! So when we are dead, we are RELEASED from what once bound us (for the jew it would be the law, for the gentile it would be "the demands of the law, written in their hearts" a.k.a. our conscience). The law is SUPPOSED to kill us. We were "married" to the law, and it was a horrible husband - first providing a way for sin to enslave us, and then condemning us for sinning. Christ does the exact opposite. But if you go back to the law, it will continue doing and being what it has always done and been - a ministry of condemnation, a power of sin. That's why Paul calls it infidelity against Christ when believers start flirting with the law again.

But you said that you don't think that he is referring to the mosaic law. This is speaking about the Royal law.

I believe the "Royal law" or "law of liberty" isn't the ten commandments or any other part of the law. I believe it's not a law in the form of a list of demands, but law that simply dictates that "Christ is my righteousness".

If that be the case then what is the purpose of grace. Grace pickes up the slack where you slack off. Where you are weak grace takes it up. Where you are strong grace takes it up.

That is an extremely watered-down concept of grace IMO.

Grace isn't just forgiveness. Grace is my very foundation. Grace isn't the patch on the punctured tire, grace is the road itself. And the vehicle. Grace isn't my safety net, it's what keeps me floating in the first place! Grace doesn't mean I'm a forgiven sinner, it means I'm a DEAD sinner! Grace doesn't mean that I live as best I can, it means that HE lives, as best HE can. Grace isn't me doing my best to keep some law, grace is Christ in me simply being Himself, doing what He has always done. Grace is... just knowing Him.

(Thanks for the friendly tone, btw. I'm not used to it around here.)

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I agree. I suppose you abide by the laws in your country (USA?).

Grenada, an Island in the Caribbean.

Does that mean you're "not under" the law? No, the entire reason you try to keep it is because you are under it in the first place.

No, it is because I don't want to face the penalty of breaking it. I don't want to go to jail. If Sin leads to death then why should i want to transgress the law.

That said, being under the mosaic law IS to be under a curse, because "cursed is everyone who does not continue TO DO ALL THE THINGS WRITTEN IN THE LAW..."

Different to the Royal Law. Moses made mention to a specific set of laws here. The text says for "it is written". Where is it written.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Deu 27:26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this (specific) law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

Deu 27:1 And Moses with the elders of Israel commanded the people, saying, Keep all the commandments which I command you this day.

Deu 27:10 Thou shalt therefore obey the voice of the LORD thy God, and do his commandments and his statutes, which I command thee this day.

If you read the whole chapter you will realize that Moses outlined all of the curses for the violations of the laws mentioned in the chapter. It seems to me like a specific set of laws. The fact is that a covenant was defined there and those were the laws of the covenant.

Deu 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

Deu 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.

I just decided to read on and arrived at the above verse which makes it even clearer to me. The covenant made in Horeb was about the 10 commandments (Deut 5). This covenant contains a different set of laws. And if they violated those laws which they did they would have been cursed as they were.

Being under the law is in effect being under condemnation. Being under the law means being a slave to sin.

Correct

No wonder, because that's exactly what God meant for the law to do in the first place; to make us all stand guilty.

Why would God make the law to make us stand guilty. That is a result but that was not his motive. That to me is an insult to God.

The commandment is the power of sin. When the commandment comes, sin springs to life. The more you're trying to live according to the law, the more you will sin.

Then David and Daniel and the saints in Revelation are real hardcore sinners then. True the commandments is the power of sin will not have dominion over us because we are under grace and not condemned by the law.

What do you mean? How can you be under the law but not subject to it?

But you said yourself that being under the law means to be under the condemnation of the law or to be a slave to sin. The carnal man cannot keep the law and always sins. He is a slave to sin. He is under the law. He cannot please God. Sin is the transgression of the law. He always transgresses the law, he always sins. He is not subject to it meaning that he is not obedient to it. The greek word for subject according to strong's dictionary is hupotasso which means to subordinate, to obey and to be subdue to.

Sure, but who's carnally minded? Are you? If so, the law IS for you - it's for the wicked and ungodly, supposed to make you stand guilty before God.

When I look at the text in Timothy I must consider all that is said about the law. And Timothy 1 verse 8 says that the law is good if a man uses it lawfully. How can the Law be good for a sinner? It must be good for the righteous. I am trying to understand verses 7 and 8 which confuses me when read together. Since you have need referring to this text since day one since i've been on this forum you can probably clear that up for me.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

In the NT, the only time the ten commandments are mentioned as some sort of separate law, is when Paul calls it the ministry of death, engraved on stone. Other than that, I have no reason to think that the jews (or God!) operated with several different laws.

So don't you think that God's 10 commandments were special. Don't you think they were seen as being above the other laws because he wrote it himself?

But how does that mean that the we, today, are somehow under those ten commandments? How does that mean that those ten commandments of the law are somehow part of the new covenant?

In the New covenant, God writes his law on our hearts. The question is, is this the whole 613 laws are are those the laws that he wrote with his own hand. I believe those laws are the 10 commandments and maybe more as the spirit leads.

But something must've changed, since I, as a gentile and righteous born-again believer in the new covenant, is somehow under this particular part of the law...

Not under the law. You are not under the law but because of love you fulfill the law. What law do you think God was talking about then he said that he will write his laws on our hearts?

That basically reduces Christ to nothing more than the ultimate sacrificial lamb - the law still stimulates sin, we are still condemned by it, but we luckily just don't have offer animals? That's the impression I'm getting, anyway (hope I'm wrong). It's a diluted gospel if you ask me.

The law stimulates sin in the carnal man and not the man led by the spirit. The man led by the spirit is not condemned by the law because he is under grace. Jesus is much more than just that but he is what you said and more.

The new covenant is made with anyone and everyone who believe. It's a covenant not based on our performance, but on the blood of Christ.

That is because there is now neither Jew or Greek. Now Abraham's seed consist of anyone who is Christ's. And the New Covenant was made with part of Abraham's seed of promise.

Why do you figure "the commandments" here refers to the ten commandments?

Because the 10 commandments show Love to God and Love to fellow man. And those two headings are what Jesus preached about.

What do you mean?

I mean when he said "If you love me keep my commandments".

Love may be the fulfilling of the law, but the law isn't the fulfilling of love.

It depends on the intent of the person. A lawkeeper does not have to be a loving person but a loving person has to keep the law. I am not sure why you said that.

 

[New_Wineskin]

quote ( from Holo )
The new covenant is made with anyone and everyone who believe. It's a covenant not based on our performance, but on the blood of Christ.

Amen . Those who worship the Sabbath want us to earn righteousness by doing that which they themselves refuse to do .

Oh . The Sabbath is approaching . Let's see if the Sabbath-worshippers violate the Sabbath by posting in the forums during this time . I am sure that some will twist the Sabbath laws and say that they are allowed to violate it in this manner . But , what about those who don't and see those violating the Sabbath ? Will thsy also violate the Sabbath by not putting to death the Sabbath-worshippers violating their god ?

My guess is "no" . They continually violate the Sabbath by doing all sorts of physical labor . They then excuse themselves from obeying the Sabbath laws of putting to death the violators .

Why are these violators pushing their agenda ? What do they get by trying to have us think that the Lord keeps track of credits and have us jump through hoops ?

Control . If they can trick us into coming under a religious system of do's and don'ts , they can make us do anything .

They want us to think that we were made to observe the Sabbath and not that the Sabbath was made for *us* . They have reversed the meaning - making it a physical chore - certainly not about rest nor about focusing on Him - focusing on earing righteousness - contradicting the whole concept .

 

[WailingWall]

Well...here's one. But I don't think it'll win you over. I could give you another ten, but it seems your mind is already made up in regards to where you think we stand with the Law.
Bombs away!

Galatians 3:24-25 - "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."

There...

...but again, it's not about analyzing individual verses or going through a list of some rules. It's about understanding the whole story.

Hi Ticker
How ya doin today? Good i hope.

GALATIANS 3 [23] But BEFORE FAITH CAME, WE WERE KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] WHEREFORE THE LAW WAS OUR SCHOOLMASTER TO BRING US UNTO CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. [27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Ticker, this scripture says what it says. Before faith came to each and everyone of us, we are under the law (10 commandments). Then the scripture goes on to say the same thing again (in case you missed it the 1st time). We are under the law (our schoolmaster) UNTIL we are justified by faith. Ticker, we are not born with faith, are we? So, according to this scripture you are kept under the law of the 10 commandments (the schoolmaster) until you are justified by faith in Christ. Thats what this scripture says. No shortcuts. The "many" never went to school. They never attempted to keep the 10 commandments, incuding sabbath. After we have been brought to faith in Christ, do we then make void the law or are we to still be keeping Gods law?

ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.

Because we have attained faith through the Word are we now to “do away” with Gods 10 commandments? GOD FORBID!

REV. 14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and THE FAITH OF JESUS.

FAITH AND THE COMMANDMENTS, Ticker. I bet youve been told ya cant have both. Its one or the other. Sometimes its hard not to believe what youve been taught all these years, but what the many have been taught is contrary to scripture.

EPHES. 2 [7] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. [8] For BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

No doubt that only the grace of God will save you. Its a gift we do not deserve. We are ALL as filthy rags. We ALL have come up short. The big question is to whom this gift will be given. Those who obey God and keep His commandments or those who practice iniquity.

JAMES 2 [17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. [19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: THE DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE, and tremble.

The devil himself BELIEVES in Jesus. I dont believe he will be saved. Agreed?

 

[WailingWall]

All those who choose to engage in religious bondage are the ones who are an enemy of God, no matter how noble your intentions.

Hi mont974x4
So what your saying is if you have partaken of bondage, you are Gods enemy. Ok lets look at the scriptures and see if you walk in bondage.

GALATIANS 4 [21] Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? [22] For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. [23] But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. [24] Which things are an allegory: for these are the TWO COVENANTS; THE ONE FROM THE MOUNT SINAI, WHICH GENDERETH TO BONDAGE, WHICH IS AGAR. [25] For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. [26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Is the above scripture speaking of the 10 commandments or circumcision?

EXODUS 34 [28] And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the TEN COMMANDMENTS.

ACTS 7 [8] And he gave him the COVENANT OF CIRCUMCISION: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.

BOTH the 10 commandments and circumcision were givin as “covenants”

EXODUS 24 [12] And the Lord said unto Moses, COME UP TO ME INTO THE MOUNT, and be there: and I WILL GIVE THEE tables of stone, AND A LAW, AND COMMANDMENTS which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

LEVITICUS 7 [37] THIS IS THE LAW OF THE BURNT OFFERING, of the meat offering, and of the sin offering, and of the trespass offering, and of the consecrations, and of the sacrifice of the peace offerings; [38] WHICH THE LORD COMMANDED MOSES IN MOUNT SINAI, in the day that he commanded the children of Israel to offer their oblations unto the Lord, in the wilderness of Sinai.

Both covenants, the 10 commandments and the law of Moses were given at Mt Sinai.

JOHN 7 [21] Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.[22] MOSES THEREFORE GAVE UNTO YOU CIRCUMCISION; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.[23] If a man on the sabbath day RECEIVE CIRCUMCISION, THAT THE LAW OF MOSES SHOULD NOT BE BROKEN; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

GENESIS 26 [3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] Because that ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge, MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and my laws.

Circumcision is of the law of Moses and given at Sinai. Even though it started with Abe. Ten commandments given at Sinai. Even though Abe was keeping Gods commandments before Sinai. He simply OBEYED HIS VOICE. So which of these, the 10 commandments or circumcision do the scriptures say bring us into “bondage”?

And the winner is....

GALATIANS 5 [1] Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and BE NOT ENTANGLED AGAIN WITH THE YOKE OF BONDAGE. [2] Behold, I Paul say unto you, that IF YE BE CIRCUMCISED, CHRIST SHALL PROFIT YOU NOTHING.

Have you been circumcized mont974x4?

Dont worry

1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

 

[WailingWall]

I don't know about you, but I rest in Christ everyday and I endeavor to be a living sacrifice in continuous prayer...no special day required.

Seems your jumping the gun a bit

2 THES. 1 [7] And to you who are troubled REST WITH US, WHEN THE LORD JESUS SHALL BE REVEALED FROM HEAVEN with his mighty angels, [8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: