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No, they were given to Israel only, and not "as a blessing" but to make sin exceedingly sinful, to kill us all. Furthermore, the law and prophets had their time up until John. And the new covenant has nothing at all to do with the law, and everything to do with the blood of Christ
and yet christ came to fulfill the law... hence, he didn't come to abolish it
and yet christ came to fulfill the law... hence, he didn't come to abolish it. you can not break the law and never fulfill it (hence the love part).
Did you ever try writing the code for quoting? [ quote ]post[ /quote ] only without the spaces?
And these commandments in question are the ten commandments, because...?REVELATION 22 [13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.[14] BLESSED ARE THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, THAT THEY MAY HAVE RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE, AND MAY ENTER IN THROUGH THE GATES INTO THE CITY.
makarios,mak-ar'-ee-os; a prolonged form of the poetical makar (meaning the same); supremely blest; by extension fortunate, well off :- blessed, happy (× -ier).
Well..because you dont like the old testament scripture that blesses those who keep the 10 commandments i thought id see how ya like this new testament scripture that says the same thing. Supremely blessed. Cant get any better than that.
Again, why do you figure these verses are talking about the ten commandments?Rev. 22:12-14
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. [13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. [14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
makarios,mak-ar'-ee-os; a prolonged form of the poetical makar (meaning the same); supremely blest; by extension fortunate, well off :- blessed, happy (× -ier).
You know what city is being talked about here Holo? Is the city for "Israel" only? I think not.
Again, why do you figure these verses are talking about the ten commandments?
interesting. thx.Hebrews 8:10-13
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Hello ElsanRandiMom
We all know that ALL do not know the Lord. There will come a time when ALL shall know the Lord but it is not yet. The scriptures say that the 1st covenant is waxing old and is ready to vanish [verse 13]. It has not yet vanished but its getting ready to and at the time it does vanish ALL shall know the Lord.
Isaiah 24:3-6
The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word. [4] The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish. [5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. [6] Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
At this time (Day of the Lord) after all thats said is done. The few that are left will know the Lord.
Some new testament scripture to back that up
1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Ive tried to leave my words short so as not to be called a liar again.
OK, but that's not at all what I asked about. I asked why you know/assume/figure that the verses from Revelation refer to the ten commandments (and why they don't refer to any other commandment God has given). Does "entole" mean "the ten commandments"?Its very simple
LUKE 18 [20] Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
The translated word for commandments in the above scripture is entole. As you can see its the 10 commandments. No doubt about it.
Yes, of course. Those are the things YOU would have to DO to have eternal life. So the question is, again, do you do these things? And do you have eternal life because you are doing these things?MATTHEW 19 [16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? [17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. [18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, [19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
The translated word for commandments in Matthew 19 is entole. Again the 10 commandments. You do recognize them dont you? Thou shalt not steal, murder, adultry and so on
Hehe! Thanks, but to be completely honest, I'm often frustrated with myself for trying to explain the gospel all the time. The gospel isn't a riddle to be explained, it's a power of salvation to be preached! To be proclaimed, shared. You know. I think that if I was first and foremost concerned with preaching the gospel, I'd go to those who have never heard, rather than trying to fine-tune those who already are saved (legalists are saved, they just don't know how saved they areI can't believe it....we're actually on 50 pages with this "Sabbath or no Sabbath" topic....wow.
And I'm convinced...holo is a freak of nature. His endurance with this stuff (...even though with this thread he started about halfway in) is becoming a thing of legend. I don't know on how many occasions I've seen him generously take the time on the threads of this sort to fully explain the great truth about Grace vs. the Sabbath/the 10 Commandments/the Law etc... He's a gospel machine!
... (legalists are saved, they just don't know how saved they are). ...
True, but I think that the grace of God covers even legalismHonestly, I wonder about this sometimes. In regard to Judaistic legalism, Paul warned of being "fallen from grace" and "cut off" from Christ. That doesn't sound very "saved" to me.
Its very simple
LUKE 18 [20] Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
The translated word for commandments in the above scripture is entole. As you can see its the 10 commandments. No doubt about it.
MATTHEW 19 [16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? [17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. [18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, [19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
The translated word for commandments in Matthew 19 is entole. Again the 10 commandments. You do recognize them dont you? Thou shalt not steal, murder, adultry and so on
1 JOHN 5 [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
The translated word for commandments in 1 John 5 is entole. Same exact word used in Luke and again in Matthew. Yup, Gods very own ten commandments.
It's the same age-old principle: the more forbidden it is, the more tempting it becomes...
The law demanded justice, and if justice was to be served, the woman would have to be punished. But Jesus was more gracious than fair.
Yes, they thought having the knowledge of good and evil was a good thing to have.
The law is good, and it looks just as tempting as the forbidden fruit. Who doesn't want knowledge of good and evil? Just take a look at the forums here and see how many "is this sin" and "is this OK" threads there are. Israel was no different. They even said "everything the Lord has said, we will do" when they heard the commandments. Even Christians today are asking for the law, not realizing while it looks so tempting, it only ends up being an instrument of death.
But the whole idea of "breaking the law" is completely meaningless to the believer, because the believer is DEAD. If Adam screwed it for us by eating the forbidden fruit, HOW MUCH MORE shall not Jesus rectify us! It doesn't make any sense to ask a dead man not to break the law. He can't break it any more than he can keep it.
I don't think that perspective is correct - Adam and Eve didn't become naked when they ate the fruit. They were already naked. Their nudity wasn't an issue whatsoever, until they learned about right and wrong. And the law is basically just the offspring of that forbidden fruit, and it will do the same to whoever keeps eating of it.
But the law is the instrument by which the devil can even tempt us in the first place. Without the commandment, sin is DEAD. Without the law, satan is disarmed.
I understand your point about love making you "keep the law", but it doesn't really - because you can't keep (or break) a law that you're not under. God doesn't ask or expect you to keep the law. He expects His own son to simply express Himself in and through you. That's a VERY different thing! It's not like Jesus went around trying to keep the demands of the law. Heck, He didn't even try to do His best! He simply kept His eyes on the Father.
The only way a carnal man could hope to please God would be by keeping the law. But we are called to NOT be like this world; they have to do their best to keep the law, we simply abide in Christ (and He in us). In other words, the law has nothing to do with our life anymore. Christ IS our life.
The choice is to have the knowledge of rightoeusness, or to have the knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve weren't will-less robots. God saw that it was good.If God takes away our knowledge of good and evil then we cannot serve him out of choice.
That sounds like a grunge band, or some sort of application for Linuxthe tree of KGE
I think it IS taking away the law, or rather, to let us DIE to the law. Apart from the commandment, sin is dead. So we must somehow be removed from the law, from the knowledge of good and evil.Adam and Eve didn't request for such a tree but God placed it there so that their loyalty could be tested. God's response to the sin problem is not taking away our knowledge of sin. It is not taking away the law.
I agree. But then again the law is for the carnal man, not for the righteous.To a carnal man not a spiritual man. The carnal man would sin even if its only 1 law.
But they did know their eyes would be opened. Of course, they didn't know what they would get to know... but, you know...No. Moses knew the law before it was given. Adam ate the fruit because of Eve without any knowledge of new knowledge. Eve was tempted by the devil, and deceived to believe that things would be better. They didn't have a meeting with God and request good and evil.
The law is good, but it has a specific purpose - to make sin exceedingly sinful and to kill the sinner. I don't blame the law for sin, but again, without the law, sin is dead. One can't use the law for anything but what God gave it to do. You can't somehow use the law to make neither a sinner nor a saint sin any less. The righteous person has nothing to do with the law in the first place. The law doesn't apply to us. But if I try to apply it, the law will do what the law has always done - it becomes the power of sin yet again. For example, I don't normally think about porn, and porn isn't even an issue for me - that is, until I make some sort of law for myself, like "I shall not watch porn". What happens then? I start thinking about porn! And the more I try to live according to that commandment, the more I think about it, and it's just a matter of time before I give in. Yes, it was I who chose to do it, and the commandment was good, but yet again, it turned out to be the power of sin.As I said before the law is not an instrument of death to the spiritual man but only to the carnal man. You blame the law for sin instead of the individuals who sin. The law is not going to be thrown in the lake of fire but individuals are, they are guilty. Yielding to God's spirit will prevent a man from sin so the law cannot have a bad effect on such a person. If you think God's law is an instrument of death to everybody then the law cannot be holy just and good.
The carnal man IS subject to the law. That is, the jews were given the written law, but we gentiles had the "demands of the law" written in our hearts as well. So we were all guilty.What we need to address is the meaning of being dead to the law. You have that to mean that the law has absolutely no effect on those who are dead to the law but that is not the meaning. If so then why would the carnal man who is not subject to the law of God be condemned by it?
I don't think the law in question here are the ten commandments. The ten commandments are the ministry of death, and God obviously doesn't want the ministry of death in our hearts. That's what we had in our hearts BEFORE we were born again.If Christians are dead to the law looking at it by you interpretation, why does God write his law on our hearts in the new covenant.
I believe that I, as a believer, born again, saint, saved person, is commanded simply to believe on Him whom He has sent. That's all. That's not a "law" that I'm "dead" to. The law, again, is for the wicked and ungodly, not for the saints.And if Christians are dead to the law, by you interpretation why do the saints keep the commandments? Regardless of what you believe those commandments are shouldn't they be dead to it so then as you explained shouldn't they not be able to keep them.
Yes, but that's because dying to sin is a consequence of being dead to the law.The fact is that being dead to the law really means being dead to sin.
True, but as we know, He is the only one to ever do that.Paul seems to focus on the law at first but as he went on he explained that the problem was not the law but the sin. Sin is the problem and not the law. The Law was around and Jesus did not sin.
Well then let us KEEP that commandment!I didn't think you meant naked in the physical sense. Sorry about that. Why don't you compare the law to the law and not the law to sin. When God told them not to eat of the forbidden fruit it was a command thus it is the firstfruits of the law.
True, but the real problem isn't that SIN is so tempting. It's the knowledge of good and evil that is so tempting. I'm still tempted by it, even though I am really dead to it. Even though I'm restored back to the condition Adam was in before he fell, I still get tempted by learing about good and evil.If you are not tempted then you cannot make a choice.
Love doesn't make me keep the law, because love simply isn't concerned with the law. When I love, I do good to people simply because I love them. It's not like I love somebody, and therefore I go to the law to figure out how I should treat them.2 things.
1. I didn't say that love causes you to keep the law but the bible said so, you are not agreeing with the bible if you say that it doesn't really.
I believe it means to be "under" the knowledge of good and evil. Just like children; they can't do anything wrong until they aquire some sort of knowledge that "this is good and that is bad". Until then, they simply express themselves, and they do what they see their parents do - and that's the whole point: God Himself is our father! We aren't to try and comply with some list over dos and don'ts, but simply keep our eyes on Dad. Even Jesus did that! He said He didn't do anything of Himself, He simply did what He saw His Father do. The more a child looks at his parents, the more he will act like them.2. You need to redefine for me what you believe it means to be under the law.
True.No. The only way a carnal man can please God is by accepting him in his life. Without God in your life what sense is keeping the law. The law will not save or transform a carnal man only God can.
The choice is to have the knowledge of rightoeusness, or to have the knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve weren't will-less robots. God saw that it was good.
I think it IS taking away the law, or rather, to let us DIE to the law. Apart from the commandment, sin is dead. So we must somehow be removed from the law, from the knowledge of good and evil.
The law, in effects, says "look here! Doesn't this look delicious! Don't you wish you could enjoy this and that!" The law makes you look on yourself and on sin. But when you look at the Lord, you won't be concerned with what is right or wrong to do. The more you look on Him, the more you become like Him.
I agree. But then again the law is for the carnal man, not for the righteous.
I think the point of the story of Eden is that God allows us all to choose - we can either try to live according to the knowledge of good and evil, or we can decide to simply know Him.
The law is good, but it has a specific purpose - to make sin exceedingly sinful and to kill the sinner. I don't blame the law for sin, but again, without the law, sin is dead. One can't use the law for anything but what God gave it to do. You can't somehow use the law to make neither a sinner nor a saint sin any less. The righteous person has nothing to do with the law in the first place. The law doesn't apply to us. But if I try to apply it, the law will do what the law has always done - it becomes the power of sin yet again. For example, I don't normally think about porn, and porn isn't even an issue for me - that is, until I make some sort of law for myself, like "I shall not watch porn". What happens then? I start thinking about porn! And the more I try to live according to that commandment, the more I think about it, and it's just a matter of time before I give in. Yes, it was I who chose to do it, and the commandment was good, but yet again, it turned out to be the power of sin.
The carnal man IS subject to the law.
I don't think the law in question here are the ten commandments. The ten commandments are the ministry of death, and God obviously doesn't want the ministry of death in our hearts. That's what we had in our hearts BEFORE we were born again.
Well then let us KEEP that commandment!
And NOT eat of the forbidden fruit! Trying to live according to the law=eating the forbidden fruit.
True, but the real problem isn't that SIN is so tempting. It's the knowledge of good and evil that is so tempting. I'm still tempted by it, even though I am really dead to it. Even though I'm restored back to the condition Adam was in before he fell, I still get tempted by learing about good and evil.
Love doesn't make me keep the law, because love simply isn't concerned with the law. When I love, I do good to people simply because I love them. It's not like I love somebody, and therefore I go to the law to figure out how I should treat them.
I think the point is that when you love, you obviously don't steal or murder or covet etc etc. You could say the same about most earthly laws, too: I don't steal from people, French and Jamaican laws demand that you don't steal, therefore I keep/fulfill French and Jamaican laws... but of course, I'm not at all concerned with how I measure up to French and Jamaican laws, because I live in Norway.
I believe it means to be "under" the knowledge of good and evil. Just like children; they can't do anything wrong until they aquire some sort of knowledge that "this is good and that is bad". Until then, they simply express themselves, and they do what they see their parents do - and that's the whole point: God Himself is our father! We aren't to try and comply with some list over dos and don'ts, but simply keep our eyes on Dad. Even Jesus did that! He said He didn't do anything of Himself, He simply did what He saw His Father do. The more a child looks at his parents, the more he will act like them.
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