Christians.. desecrating the Sabbath

[ticker]

Hehe! Thanks, but to be completely honest, I'm often frustrated with myself for trying to explain the gospel all the time. The gospel isn't a riddle to be explained, it's a power of salvation to be preached! To be proclaimed, shared. You know. I think that if I was first and foremost concerned with preaching the gospel, I'd go to those who have never heard, rather than trying to fine-tune those who already are saved (legalists are saved, they just don't know how saved they are ). And as for myself, it wasn't debate that made me see the fullness of God's grace (there's still more to see, I'm sure), but an emotional and spiritual and religious and utter breakdown. Oh well. Peace.

Very true words, holo. That's right-on.

And that's exactly why all I pretty much do anymore on CF is offer little humorous, pithy, or inane comments.

Just can't see much of a point in doing any more than that really. Discussion?....it's for the birds.

Peace be with you, friend.

 

[Alethes]

Its very simple

LUKE 18 [20] Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

MATTHEW 19 [16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

The translated word for commandments in Matthew 19 is “entole”. Again the 10 commandments. You do recognize them dont you? Thou shalt not steal, murder, adultry and so on.

The translated word for commandments in the above scripture is “entole”. As you can see its the 10 commandments. No doubt about it.

This life can only be received through the New Birth - by God's giving of permanent gift of holy-spirit life by means of the Lord Jesus Christ. Some of the Greek texts read "may inherit" instead of "may have.

The translated word for commandments in 1 John 5 is “entole”. Same exact word used in Luke and again in Matthew. Yup, Gods very own ten commandments.

Verse 1 of John 5 states: "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ born of God, and everyone that loveth him [God] that begat, loveth him [Christ and the brethren]."

Everyone who loves God, loves the brethren because it is impossible to love God in the renewed mind Both Christ and we are begotten of God. Christ is our brother and we are all along with Him, God's children. There is nothing in these verses which puts us under "law," including the Sabbath.

Verse 2 -- By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments [Word]."

We love the children of God when we love God, and keep His commandments, His Word given to us who are born of His Spirit. We keep His commandments by renewing our minds according to His Word. When we walk in the light, we prove to ourselves that we are the children of God.

We need to study the Word of God in light of "to whom" it is addressed: Jew, Gentile or the Church of God, Galatians 3:28 states that a person is either a Jew or a Gentile until he becomes born again of God's Spirit at which time he joins the Church of God. The entire Bible is addressed to one or the other of these three groups. All Scripture before the day of Pentecost is not addressed to the Church of God/Christians and is for our learning.

To "rightly divide the Word of truth" it is very important to know that Scripture interprets itself within the context. The context is that which makes up the whole story, the enveloping idea. If we try to interpret Scripture outside of its context, we may misinterpret those verses and teach what is error.

"Entole" does not always refer to the ten commandments or the law of Moses. Commandment "entole" simply means "an authoritative direction or instruction to do something."

"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment [entole] have I received of my Father." (John 10:18)

It is obvious that the commandment "entole" is not referring to the "ten commandments." It was God's commandment/Word that Christ have the authority to lay down his life and to take it again.

HEBREWS 11 [22] By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of

Israel; and gave COMMANDMENT concerning his bones. entellomai,;from Greek 1722 (en) and the base of Greek 5056 (telos); to enjoin :- (give) charge, (give) command (-ments), injoin. Not the 10 commandments, but a simple command.

Did God give Joseph the "ten commandments" concerning his bones? No. God gave a specific commandment "entole" at a specific time, which specifically concerned Joseph. This verse has nothing at all to do with the ten commandments.

JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, keep my COMMANDMENTS. [16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Does it say in this verse that Jesus told them to keep themselves under the law? Or to keep the Sabbath? No. Jesus told His disciples if they love him they will keep "his" commandments to them.

In Acts 1:2, "Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments [entellomai] unto the apostles whom he had chosen:"

Jesus did not give them the 10 commandments of which they knew before they were chosen to be His apostles. His commandment to them is given in Mark.

Mark 16:15 -- And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

They were to go into all the world and preach the gospel of Christ, who through his death and resurrection, brought salvation and eternal life to all who believe in him.

The scripture verses you use to prove your belief that we are to still keep the Sabbath, does not do so in any way, shape or form. They are taken way out of contexts and are therefore misinterpreted and misunderstood.

The old-coveant laws were given TO SRAEL ONLY - NOT to the Geniles or pagans, and especially NOT to born-again Christians. All who are born-again of God's spirit have died to the law, and therefore are not under the law. The law of Moses, which includes the keeping of the Sabbath was given to ISRAEL ONLY.

Another point that the law-keepers fail to understand is that Christ did away with the "LAW" -- the "BINDING," the "WORKS" of the law "FOR" RIGHTEIOUSNESS.

Christ "fulfilled the righteousness OF the law, which DID AWAY with the WORKS OF THE LAW "FOR" RIGHTEOUSNESS, because it was not possible for man to keep the WHOLE Law perfectly through the weakness of his own flesh. Jesus Christ alone kept all the requirements of the law perfectly, which he did in man's stead.

The old covenant did not give righteousness or salvation (Gal. 2:21). But the new covenant brings the God's gift of holy spirit-life, and righteousness. The old covenant could not cleanse the conscience.

The Sabbath, which means "REST," was a CEREMONIAL LAW. It was a shadow/shade of the spiritual reality of the "rest" that would come through the "finished work of salvation for man."

The Church Epistles make it clear that Christians are not under obligation to observe a Sabbath day (Colossians 2:16-17 and Galatians 4:9-11), because Jesus fulfilled the purpose and plan of the Sabbath for us and in us (Hebrews 4:9-11).

Galatians 4:10 tells us that Christians are not bound to observe days and months and seasons and years. The rest we enter into as Christians is something to experience every day, not just one day a week - the rest of knowing we don’t have to work to save ourselves, but our salvation is accomplished in Jesus (Hebrews 4:9-10).

The Sabbath commanded here and observed by Israel was a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ (Colossians 2:16-17). We have a rest in Jesus that is ours to live in every day. Therefore, since the shadow of the Sabbath is fulfilled in Jesus, we are free to keep any day - or no day - as a Sabbath after the custom of ancient Israel.

"Christ did not unite Jews and Gentiles by requiring Gentiles to come under the old covenant. Rather, he united them by removing the old covenant and forgiving the sins of both. No one has to keep those obsolete laws. Jews do not have to keep the laws that divided them from Gentiles. Peter was able to live like a Gentile (Gal. 2:14). Paul could, too, because he was not under the Torah (1 Cor. 9:20-21). Christians are not under the law of Moses."

 

[Alethes]

Hehe! Thanks, but to be completely honest, I'm often frustrated with myself for trying to explain the gospel all the time. The gospel isn't a riddle to be explained, it's a power of salvation to be preached! To be proclaimed, shared. You know. I think that if I was first and foremost concerned with preaching the gospel, I'd go to those who have never heard, rather than trying to fine-tune those who already are saved (legalists are saved, they just don't know how saved they are ). And as for myself, it wasn't debate that made me see the fullness of God's grace (there's still more to see, I'm sure), but an emotional and spiritual and religious and utter breakdown. Oh well. Peace.

Paul's biggest problem and hindrance to his moving the "good news" of salvation through Christ, were the "legalist" who kept themselves under the law and then tried to persuade Christians to do the same. Same thing going on today but many Christians fail to this trick of the Adversary.

I pray that the eyes of their understanding are opened to see and truly know who they are and what they have "IN CHRIST."

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Hehe! Thanks, but to be completely honest, I'm often frustrated with myself for trying to explain the gospel all the time. The gospel isn't a riddle to be explained, it's a power of salvation to be preached! To be proclaimed, shared. You know. I think that if I was first and foremost concerned with preaching the gospel, I'd go to those who have never heard, rather than trying to fine-tune those who already are saved (legalists are saved, they just don't know how saved they are ). And as for myself, it wasn't debate that made me see the fullness of God's grace (there's still more to see, I'm sure), but an emotional and spiritual and religious and utter breakdown. Oh well. Peace.

Am i a legalist?

 

[visionary]

Am i a legalist?

You would have to try to follow the letter of the law without the spiritual guidance of the Holy Spirit in order to be a legalist.

Born again people are guided by the Holy Spirit which reveals the width, depth, breath, and complete impact of your entire moments in relationship to the Lord through His Word (which also contain the law, all of it) so that you have structure and foundation to your life with Him.

Fight the Law of God, you are fighting against God.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

You would have to try to follow the letter of the law without the spiritual guidance of the Holy Spirit in order to be a legalist.

Born again people are guided by the Holy Spirit which reveals the width, depth, breath, and complete impact of your entire moments in relationship to the Lord through His Word (which also contain the law, all of it) so that you have structure and foundation to your life with Him.

Fight the Law of God, you are fighting against God.

Well do the people who accuse others of being legalist know enough about them to cast such accusations. As soon as you exalt the commandments you are labelled as a legalist

 

[visionary]

The lawless do that, but you know what scriptures say about those who are lawless.

 

[calluna]

The lawless do that, but you know what scriptures say about those who are lawless.

Some are a law to themselves. Many in the hedonist USA are in that condition. Some have a law that says that, if they have not actually committed murder or adultery, they are ok. Most of the religions in the USA keep to that idea, fatal though it is. You see it carved into stonework in public places- like whitewash on dead men's tombs. Then there is the minority who follow the law of love, that takes this as a guide to its behavior:

'Now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander and filthy language from your lips.' Col 3:8 NIV

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Some are a law to themselves. Many in the hedonist USA are in that condition. Some have a law that says that, if they have not actually committed murder or adultery, they are ok. Most of the religions in the USA keep to that idea, fatal though it is. You see it carved into stonework in public places- like whitewash on dead men's tombs. Then there is the minority who follow the law of love, that takes this as a guide to its behavior:

'Now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander and filthy language from your lips.' Col 3:8 NIV

Would you call me a legalist?

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I tried reaching out to the one specifically accusing myself and others of teaching salvation by works and not keeping the Sabbath but trying to convince others of it. I got no response at all. Not from that person or from anyone else. Holo is the only one who does not agree with me, responding to anything i say. So i am just trying to reach out again.

 

[visionary]

I understand what you are doing and know Holo well. You are trying to reach a crowd that had heard it and has an excuse for every scripture you bring before them... They have tossed out those verses a long time ago as not applying to them. That is their decision. Do not grow weary, but be renewed by His Spirit and by His Words.

 

[visionary]

I believe that once we understand the 'deeper spiritual meaning' of a commandment we are not excused from obeying it.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I understand what you are doing and know Holo well. You are trying to reach a crowd that had heard it and has an excuse for every scripture you bring before them... They have tossed out those verses a long time ago as not applying to them. That is their decision. Do not grow weary, but be renewed by His Spirit and by His Words.

Thanks.

 

[visionary]

You are doing well, locking horns with this crowd..

 

[tulc]

I understand what you are doing and know Holo well. You are trying to reach a crowd that had heard it and has an excuse for every scripture you bring before them... They have tossed out those verses a long time ago as not applying to them. That is their decision. Do not grow weary, but be renewed by His Spirit and by His Words.

...so what you're saying is if someone doesn't agree with how you view a Scripture they are just making an excuse? They can't disagree with you, they can't just understand it differently no, the only way to read these things are the way you read and understand them?
tulc(just want to be clear that that's what you're saying)

 

[tulc]

You are doing well, locking horns with this crowd..

...who are also you're brothers and sisters in the Lord?
tulc(never knew we were so scary)

 

[visionary]

If you disagree with scripture, then you have a problem with God.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

...who are also you're brothers and sisters in the Lord?
tulc(never knew we were so scary)

John 5:45 "No be ye supposing that I shall be accusing of-ye toward the Father; is the one accusing of-ye, Moses into whom ye have hoped"; [Reve 12:10]

Reve 12:10 And I hear great voice saying in the Heaven: "Now became the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of the God of us, and the authority of the Christ of Him, that was cast the Accuser of the brothers of us, the accusing them in sight of the God of us, of day and of night".

 

[tulc]

If you disagree with scripture, then you have a problem with God.

That's true! ...of course that also wasn't what I said. Here let me post it again:

...so what you're saying is if someone doesn't agree with how you view a Scripture they are just making an excuse? They can't disagree with you, they can't just understand it differently no, the only way to read these things are the way you read and understand them?

Now, could you show me the part in my post where I disagreed with Scripture rather then your understanding of Scripture?
tulc(just curious)

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Ok guys, kiss and make up.