Christians.. desecrating the Sabbath

[BrightCandle]

Then why was it given to a very small nation only?

Read Genesis 2, the Sabbath was given to Adam and Eve, and therefore, was given to all mankind from the beginning of time as we know it. If the Sabbath was good enough for our original parents, then should it not be good enough for us today?

 

[calluna]

Read Genesis 2, the Sabbath was given to Adam and Eve

Where does Ge 2 say that?

 

[BrightCandle]

That's obvious nonsense. Can we raise the level somewhat, please?

A Christian who keeps the 10 Commandments by the power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, is raising the level of sanctification in their lives, as compared to the "mamzee pamzee" diluted variety of Christianity that is so popular today. Almost every church has included the keeping of the 10 Commandments in their official doctrinal statements, except that they do not keep the Sabbath as written. They keep it a altered version, that was created by church tradition. And you know what Jesus had to say to the Pharisees who exalted their Jewish tradition above the word of God? "In vain do you worship me. . ."

 

[BrightCandle]

Where does Ge 2 say that?

In Genesis 2:2-3, you cannot miss it. Note, that God called the 7th day "holy", a title given to none of the the other days. Also, note, in Exodus 20:8, that God refers back to Genesis 2 as a basis for the reason that the 7th day was "holy" and for "on it you shall not do any work". At the time of creation, Jesus was speaking to Adam and Eve face to face, there is no way that they would not have known that the Sabbath was "holy" time with God, with the work of tending the garden of Eden not even allowed. It was to be a special time of set aside every week. Additionally, it command given by God to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was so important with the breaking of that command leading to the 6,000 years of sin and death that mankind has experienced to date, how can anyone in their rational mind justify the breaking of the Sabbath? Look what happened to Adam and Evan and Cain?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

how can anyone in their rational mind justify the breaking of the Sabbath? Look what happened to Adam and Evan and Cain?

Is there a difference between the Sabbath rest of Moses and the Sabbath rest of Jesus/Abraham?
How do you view those in Reve 14:11 btw?

Luke 16:29 Saying to him, Abraham: "They are having Moses and the Prophets: Let them hearken to them"!

Reve 14:11 And the Smoke of the Tormenting/basanismou <929> of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages. And not they are having Rest Day and Night

 

[calluna]

In Genesis 2:2-3, you cannot miss it. Note, that God called the 7th day "holy", a title given to none of the the other days.

That isn't command to A&E, though.

 

[New_Wineskin]

quote
Where does Ge 2 say that?

It doesn't . If it did , the Lord would not need to explain it in the Law - everyone would know . And , we would know , as well - without any aid of the Scriptures . But , everytime one hears about it being a command , someone quotes the Scriptures which came only at the time of Moses .

Let us look at the passage , shall we ? ...

By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested [a] from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.(NIV)

Notice - no mention of His resting every 7th day - only on that one particular day .
Notice - no mention of His wanting or having humans partake of it with Him - only that "*HE* rested"
Notice - no mention of it being a command for humans to observe it every seven days .
Notice - no mention of the humans commanded to pass it on to other generations .

Even though none of those things were mentioned , the Sabbath-violators insist that they are mentioned . Are Christians not about *truth* ? Why are people using lies to manipulate people into doing things ? Even if what they say *is* true , why do they resort to all of the manipulations of the truth and outright falsehoods to convince others ?


Also , the Sabbath law cannot have happened before Moses because *THE* Sabbath - the Passover - only occured at the time of Moses . There is no mention of the Passover Sabbath in the writing that humans call "Genesis" ( one would have to wait for the sequel ) .

Now , allow us to go back to the Sabbath command :

12 Then the LORD said to Moses, 13 "Say to the Israelites, 'You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. [a]

14 " 'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. 15 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.' " 18 When the LORD finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, he gave him the two tablets of the Testimony, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.(NIV)

*Twice* in one passage - *twice* - A sign between the Lord and the Israelites - not all of mankind - the Israelites and their descendants . If it was to all mankind , it wouldn't be a sign to anyone - everyone would be included . Also , *twice* He states that those who desecrate the Sabbaths *must* be put to death . Are those who worship the Sabbath obeying this part of the Sabbath command ? No . They defecate on the very command they push .

 

[calluna]

*Twice* in one passage - *twice* - A sign between the Lord and the Israelites - not all of mankind - the Israelites and their descendants . If it was to all mankind , it wouldn't be a sign to anyone - everyone would be included . Also , *twice* He states that those who desecrate the Sabbaths *must* be put to death . Are those who worship the Sabbath obeying this part of the Sabbath command ? No . They defecate on the very command they push .

There has to be an ulterior motive somewhere.

 

[New_Wineskin]

quote
There has to be an ulterior motive somewhere.

There is . I could quote the passage but it might just be too far over the line and get me tossed .

They just can't allow others to have a different doctrine on this than they . That is how they show that it is about earning salvation through personal effort .

 

[calluna]

quote
There has to be an ulterior motive somewhere.

There is . I could quote the passage but it might just be too far over the line and get me tossed .

They just can't allow others to have a different doctrine on this than they . That is how they show that it is about earning salvation through personal effort .

There is that, certainly. There is the 'bow down to my idol' thing, too. 'Come along to my temple, where my man-on-a-lead wears his dog collar among his paraphernalia. Come and say, "Nice sermon, pastor," doff your cap on the way back to your life of materialism and doing as you please. We won't detain you long.'

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Let us look at the passage , shall we ? ...

By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested [a] from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.(NIV)

Notice - no mention of His resting every 7th day - only on that one particular day .
Notice - no mention of His wanting or having humans partake of it with Him - only that "*HE* rested"
Notice - no mention of it being a command for humans to observe it every seven days .
Notice - no mention of the humans commanded to pass it on to other generations .

Here is how the translation reads from the Hebrew:

http://www.scripture4all.org/

1 And the heavens and the land are being finished and all hosts of them.
2 And 'Elohiym is finishing in Day, the Seventh, work of Him which He makes. And He is ceasing/shabath in day of the seventh from all of work of Him which He makes
3 And 'Elohiym is hallowing that Day of the Seventh. And He is hallowing him, that in him He ceases/shabath from all work of Him which 'Elohiym creates, to make.

 

[tulc]

If you are keeping the 7th day holy, by ceasing from secular work, and by giving yourself to sacred activities during the Sabbath then you are keeping it holy. However, what you think is not sin, could very well be sin, if it is not guided by what the Bible says. Remember that well known text: "There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death."

I've been thinking about this for a couple of days and I just realized another question I had: how do you separate sacred from secular? I live in a Christian Commune and we often use Saturday as a day to take care of our neighborhood, cleaning and helping people with their housing and such (we live in a pretty bad part of Chicago and a lot of people need help with different things) would helping my neighbor do work count as labor? sometimes I have dishes all day on Saturday (there's 400+ of us, we generate a LOT of dirty dishes and pans, not to mention we cook on Saturday for us and the homeless shelters we run) would THAT be considered work also? Doesn't the Mosaic Law prohibit cooking on the Sabbath? (well, I believe starting fires is what the Law prohibits) These are things I wondered about, I look forward to an answer from someone.
tulc(a guy with lots of questions)

 

[calluna]

I look forward to an answer from someone.
tulc(a guy with lots of questions)

Keeping a Mosaic sabbath in any temperate region or colder is absurd. You'll only keep one, if you do!

 

[New_Wineskin]

quote
Here is how the translation reads from the Hebrew:

http://www.scripture4all.org/

1 And the heavens and the land are being finished and all hosts of them.
2 And 'Elohiym is finishing in Day, the Seventh, work of Him which He makes. And He is ceasing/shabath in day of the seventh from all of work of Him which He makes
3 And 'Elohiym is hallowing that Day of the Seventh. And He is hallowing him, that in him He ceases/shabath from all work of Him which 'Elohiym creates, to make.

Yep . Nothing about any other days but that first 7th day and nothing about humans required to do anything about any day afterward .

 

[New_Wineskin]

quote
There is that, certainly. There is the 'bow down to my idol' thing, too. 'Come along to my temple, where my man-on-a-lead wears his dog collar among his paraphernalia. Come and say, "Nice sermon, pastor," doff your cap on the way back to your life of materialism and doing as you please. We won't detain you long.'

Oh , yes . I hear ya .

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I've been thinking about this for a couple of days and I just realized another question I had: how do you separate sacred from secular? I live in a Christian Commune and we often use Saturday as a day to take care of our neighborhood, cleaning and helping people with their housing and such (we live in a pretty bad part of Chicago and a lot of people need help with different things) would helping my neighbor do work count as labor? sometimes I have dishes all day on Saturday (there's 400+ of us, we generate a LOT of dirty dishes and pans, not to mention we cook on Saturday for us and the homeless shelters we run) would THAT be considered work also? Doesn't the Mosaic Law prohibit cooking on the Sabbath? (well, I believe starting fires is what the Law prohibits) These are things I wondered about, I look forward to an answer from someone.
tulc(a guy with lots of questions)

Remember when Jesus was demonstrating the spirit of Sabbath keeping he mentioned that it was lawful or not against the law to do good on the Sabbath. He also mentioned indirectly that there are things of necessity that you must do even if it is the Sabbath. You and those who run the homeless shelters have been doing good on the Sabbath for a long time. If you run a homeless shelter you cannot decide not to cook because it is Sabbath or else everyone will starve, and it will be difficult to prepare everything on the preparation day. The disciples were hungry and had nothing to eat on the Sabbath. It was of necessity that they ate something and they were in a corn field. You should try to do as much as you can during the week to ease the burden of work on the Sabbath but in your situation there are things that you cannot run from. The same Jesus who did not hold the disciples guilty for picking ears of corn will not hold you responsible for doing things that you have to do in an effort to help those in need.

But I believe that God created the Sabbath for fellowship with him. I don't know how everything happens but in your shoes i would leave off some things that you described for another day, the things that you can afford to leave off and use the Sabbath to run a spiritually uplifting program for the same people you are feeding and assisting. You maybe do that, I don't know. Because the Sabbath is about doing good and also about fellowship and worship to God. Ideal Sabbath keeping will combine both things. A weakness among some Sabbath keepers is that fellowship and worship totally overshadows the doing good part. I am also guilty of this. But the only way to improve is to first notice the weakness.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

quote
There has to be an ulterior motive somewhere.

There is . I could quote the passage but it might just be too far over the line and get me tossed .

They just can't allow others to have a different doctrine on this than they . That is how they show that it is about earning salvation through personal effort .

Regardless of how much we say that we are not saved by works you continue to tell people that this is what we are saying. But if we decide to do the works that would get us saved we would sit down for the whole day and do nothing for no work can save us. If I come and say that we should respect a persons life and not kill people you will not say that I am trying to convince others about trying to earn their own salvation but if I say that the Sabbath should be kept holy you shower me with accusations.

 

[Meshavrischika]

personal effort???!!! :o

 

[WailingWall]

quote
All 10 the commandments were meant to be kept as a blessing to mankind.

You have no evidence for that . I was not mentioned in the giving of the Law .

Yeah theres probably no evidence left of that sort in the bible version you read. I did find this in Jimmys version.

Deut. 11:26-28
Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; [27] A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day:

 

[Meshavrischika]

26Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse--

27The blessing if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you this day; 28And the curse if you will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside from the way which I command you this day to go after other gods, which you have not known.

the other gods part omitted seems rather important