Christians and veterans...

[Faint]

Considering that today is Veteran's Day in the U.S., I'm curious if Christians consider soldiers dishonorable:

According to the Bible, Jesus disapproved of violence.

Soldiers kill. They do not turn the other cheek, and in their battles with men and women of other nations (and occasionally of their own) they are clearly not demonstrating love for their neighbors.

Sure, all people are allegedly "sinners" because of "The Fall" and all that...but isn't it hypocritical to honor the men and women of the military for doing something that is so against the teachings of Jesus?

 

[QuakerOats]

I believe in non-violence, but I also come from a family of war veterans, people who're not only my kin, but whom I respect and admire. I cannot change the past, and decisions are often hard to make, especially where one is faced with the decision of life or death, for themselves, or someone else. Also, remember that, particularly in the past, not everybody who went, or has gone to war, wanted to do so. It isn't my place to 'snub' the veteran, as it were, and with the above in mind, I believe I can honour those who serve(d), and still hold to my position of non-violence because things are often not so clear-cut.

 

[keith99]

Considering that today is Veteran's Day in the U.S., I'm curious if Christians consider soldiers dishonorable:

According to the Bible, Jesus disapproved of violence.

Soldiers kill. They do not turn the other cheek, and in their battles with men and women of other nations (and occasionally of their own) they are clearly not demonstrating love for their neighbors.

Sure, all people are allegedly "sinners" because of "The Fall" and all that...but isn't it hypocritical to honor the men and women of the military for doing something that is so against the teachings of Jesus?

Isn't it also hypocritical for Jesus to praise a Centurian?

I would suggest reading 'Why I am not a pacifist" by C.S. Lewis.

 

[BobW188]

John the Baptist, speaking to soldiers, does not tell them to leave the Army or to refuse orders to fight; and, as Keith mentions, Jesus singles out a centurion - roughly the equivalent of an Army or Marine captain - as having the most faith he's seen in Israel; and does not reprimand him for being a soldier.
We do well to keep in mind that preachers didn't end slavery in this country. Soldiers did. We speak English and not German thanks to soldiers. We are not put into gas chambers because of our faith thanks to soldiers.

 

[FredSmith]

Considering that today is Veteran's Day in the U.S., I'm curious if Christians consider soldiers dishonorable:

According to the Bible, Jesus disapproved of violence.

I guess that's why He killed almost every living thing on the Earth in the flood and then commanded His children to go and wipe out all of the nations surrounding them.

Soldiers kill. They do not turn the other cheek, and in their battles with men and women of other nations (and occasionally of their own) they are clearly not demonstrating love for their neighbors.

Sure, all people are allegedly "sinners" because of "The Fall" and all that...but isn't it hypocritical to honor the men and women of the military for doing something that is so against the teachings of Jesus?

Soldiers act as agents of the government, which Romans 13 tells us has been given the authority by God to "wield the sword to punish evildoers and protect the innocent".

 

[Faint]

Ah, so what you each seem to be saying is that Jesus is not the peace-loving pacifist/hippy from days of yore but rather a man who condones killing and warfare?

I must say that is at least consistent with the bloodthirsty God of the OT.

Under what conditions would you imagine that Jesus would approve of going to war...or fighting in general?

Also, I would not say that praising one centurion necessarily qualifies Jesus as "pro-soldier"...perhaps he admired the man's faith despite his occupation. But I won't belabor this point.

 

[keith99]

Ah, so what you each seem to be saying is that Jesus is not the peace-loving pacifist/hippy from days of yore but rather a man who condones killing and warfare?

I must say that is at least consistent with the bloodthirsty God of the OT.

Under what conditions would you imagine that Jesus would approve of going to war...or fighting in general?

Also, I would not say that praising one centurion necessarily qualifies Jesus as "pro-soldier"...perhaps he admired the man's faith despite his occupation. But I won't belabor this point.

I would hazard a guess that Jesus, just might approve of going to war to pervent the Jews from being exterminated.

A know of a few German Lutherans and Catholics who were willing to do what they otherwise would never think of to try to stop things of that nature.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Considering that today is Veteran's Day in the U.S., I'm curious if Christians consider soldiers dishonorable:

According to the Bible, Jesus disapproved of violence.

Soldiers kill. They do not turn the other cheek, and in their battles with men and women of other nations (and occasionally of their own) they are clearly not demonstrating love for their neighbors.

Sure, all people are allegedly "sinners" because of "The Fall" and all that...but isn't it hypocritical to honor the men and women of the military for doing something that is so against the teachings of Jesus?

Anyone who goes to a military academy and then joins as an officer, I think took the intelligent route, but most join as the cannon fodder group. What is even funner is that when I get my Psychology degree, I can go work for the military (not join the military) to help them recruit more by using my skill at controlling people (to put in simply, in the non-simple form, it would take many pages to explain how one can design logos, advertisements, ect. to get people to sign up who would have otherwise not).

My big problem with veterans day though is that we praise those who joined the military even when there was better they could do. There are those who would have helped America more by getting an education and going into R&D, not the military. Actually, some countries have it such that scientist cannot be forced into the military.

So, I'm not saying everyone who is in the military is an idiot, but those who join solely to be patriotic when they could have helped their country and their world in a much better way are.

Anyways, my views of those who long ago joined the military to help actually fight for our country when they needed to are much different than my view of those I know who have joined current day with patriotism their only reason.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Ah, so what you each seem to be saying is that Jesus is not the peace-loving pacifist/hippy from days of yore but rather a man who condones killing and warfare?

I must say that is at least consistent with the bloodthirsty God of the OT.

Under what conditions would you imagine that Jesus would approve of going to war...or fighting in general?

Also, I would not say that praising one centurion necessarily qualifies Jesus as "pro-soldier"...perhaps he admired the man's faith despite his occupation. But I won't belabor this point.

Jesus said to turn the other cheek. But I only have two cheeks. I have taken this to mean to give those around you a second chance. It is one thing to act out in anger, to have an outburst which you regret, and a completely different one to consistently try to harm another.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Considering that today is Veteran's Day in the U.S., I'm curious if Christians consider soldiers dishonorable:

According to the Bible, Jesus disapproved of violence.

Soldiers kill. They do not turn the other cheek, and in their battles with men and women of other nations (and occasionally of their own) they are clearly not demonstrating love for their neighbors.

Sure, all people are allegedly "sinners" because of "The Fall" and all that...but isn't it hypocritical to honor the men and women of the military for doing something that is so against the teachings of Jesus?

Jesus highlighted the faith of a "Roman" Commander that openly declared that he led men by command to do this or that. He was also a slave owner.

Soldiers are honorable people.

 

[PantsMcFist]

The thing about turning the other cheek is that we don't understand it's cultural relevance now. It's not a directive to accept violence directed at you. For masters in ancient near-Eastern cultures, and openhanded slap delivered to the cheek of a slave was a reprimand, a put-you-back-in-your-place sort of gesture. Further slaps would be humiliation for the slave. The slapping was always done with a particular hand, and when you turn your face toward that hand (offering the other cheek), it is impossible to be slapped again, without being struck directly in the face, which was a no-no, and would be abuse of the slave (slapping on the cheek was not). With this in mind, turning the other cheek is more of a passive form of resistance, in which you acknowledge someone's authority over you (by allowing the initial slap), but denying them the right to humiliate or strip you of your dignity (by denying additional slaps).

When you look at Christ's teachings through the appropriate cultural lens, there is a striking similarity between Ghandi's teachings and Christ's.

 

[anonymousAdviser]

Considering that today is Veteran's Day in the U.S., I'm curious if Christians consider soldiers dishonorable:

According to the Bible, Jesus disapproved of violence.

Soldiers kill. They do not turn the other cheek, and in their battles with men and women of other nations (and occasionally of their own) they are clearly not demonstrating love for their neighbors.

Sure, all people are allegedly "sinners" because of "The Fall" and all that...but isn't it hypocritical to honor the men and women of the military for doing something that is so against the teachings of Jesus?

You really don't understand Scripture... you should read it all before judging it, and even then you shouldn't assume you know it.

If you have problems dividing between a soldier who fought the Nazis and a Ted Bundy... I don't think you should think yourself capable of tackling such a book as the Bible.

The Scripture has no such problem, though one can twist things out of context and play semantical games with it, if they so desire.

Let the Christians quote Scripture, and maybe you say what you believe?

Could you argue your own beliefs in an open forum without using testing, loaded questions designed to trap people? I am not so sure if you would find your own beliefs defensible.

How about starting with what sins you do which the Bible says are bad, but you disagree with it on?