Christianity without Satan?

[nopq]

It sounds like a case of crossed wires, nopq may have been trying to say he believed in the existence of satan, but came across as a satanist. In the 'awkward church moments' category. Let's see if he wants to clarify.

Oh no, he didn't think I was a Satanist

He feared for my mental health!

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

I've heard that whoever translated the Bible from it's original language got the word Aeon wrong. They misinterpreted Aeon as eternity when it actually means for a set amount of time.

Don't fall for the Heresy of Universalism. It was officially condemned at The Fifth Ecumenical Council (Second Council of Constantinople) in 553 A.D.

CHURCH FATHERS: Second Council of Constantinople (A.D. 553)


• Second Council of Constantinople

Session I - Extracts from the Acts


The Anathemas of the Emperor Justinian Against Origen
_____________________________________________________

9.

If anyone says or thinks that the punishment of demons and of impious men is only temporary, and will one day have an end, and that a restoration (ἀποκατάστασις) will take place of demons and of impious men, let him be anathema.

Anathema to Origen and to that Adamantius, who set forth these opinions together with his nefarious and execrable and wicked doctrine and to whomsoever there is who thinks thus, or defends these opinions, or in any way hereafter at any time shall presume to protect them.


.

 

[RaymondG]

I mentioned a belief in Satan - and I think Satan is an appropriate thing to mention in a religious discussion about evil

Somehow I do not believe that I would enjoy being in a gathering which focused on the belief in satan and felt it an appropriate place to talk about it.

I view religious gatherings as a place to talk about the Goodness of God, and the way, as they see it, to life.

I wonder if, at satanic meetings, they felt it as appropriate to discuss the goodness of God, as much as we feel it appropriate, in church, to discuss the badness of the devil. Some how I doubt it.....I would think that they would use the entire time to discuss the one they came to worship.... Am I wrong for wanting to do the same?

 

[nopq]

I view religious gatherings as a place to talk about the Goodness of God, and the way, as they see it, to life.

It was a Unitarian church, not a Christian one

I attended for around six years and almost always stayed behind for coffee and conversation after the service and not once did the Goodness of God or the way to eternal life ever come up e.g. nobody ever wanted to talk about Jesus

One of the reasons I left

And he was worried about my mental health, not offended by what I mentioned

(((Edit: He obviously thought that a belief in Satan is the product of a mental disorder rather than a part of Christianity! - another reason I left)))

Naturally, I'd never bring up the topic of Satan in my current (Christian) church

 

[Talihood]

what about Satan without Christianity? i'm sure he would still exist!

 

[RaymondG]

what about Satan without Christianity? i'm sure he would still exist!

I doubt he would be as popular......we make him a star. He has been elevated to co-star in this thread alone.....I've just discovered that I cant even be Christ unless I accept him too.

 

[jahel]

I doubt he would be as popular......we make him a star. He has been elevated to co-star in this thread alone.....I've just discovered that I cant even be Christ unless I accept him too.

Overcoming the flesh is new?

 

[RaymondG]

Overcoming the flesh is new?

Ok, this is more like it........ Are you saying that "the flesh" is Satan?

 

[jahel]

Ok, this is more like it........ Are you saying that "the flesh" is Satan?

The garden story teaches that the flesh is the dwelling place of satan and he lives there until adopted to resurrection. Flesh made of dust is the food of satan and why being born from above is necessary. Satan eats anything made from dust.

It’s what I did say.

Paul described carrying about a body of rotting flesh tied to his living body that may be the scripture equivalent.

 

[Stephanie Rucker]

I believe in Satan/The Devil (but not as a red dude with horns etc.)

But many Christians don’t, even though he’s clearly in the bible

But can Christianity work (i.e. make sense) without the concept of The Devil?

I say it can’t

Light without darkness makes no sense

Does anyone here think Christianity can work without The Devil?

I say: Just because you don't like the idea of The Devil doesn't make it untrue!

Allow me to share a story:

Before I became Christian I attended a Unitarian chapel

I mentioned to the minister there that I believed in Satan

And he went and contacted my mother, telling her he was worried because I believed in Satan

How outrageous is that!

To Nopq and friend: Satan and his body has been the men riding over my head and my going through fire and water (Psalm 66:12 of the Holy Bible). He also has been near most of the time in my life and just as the bible teaches--only comes to steal, kill, and destroy. Satan consist of the devil, the dragon, and the serpent (he's 3 persons, yet in his crowd or body they split themselves up in 3s and 4s. You flee. You don't stay around with someone that hates your life, don't want you to have it (saved from the Lake of Fire or being thrown out into the dark where there will be nashing of the teeth) and or in bad health--he would want you not having life. In my go through he has put on horns and a red suit or self--so his person is in that way too. He has copy's and forms, yet flee because he doesn't want you to have your life. Yet, we know to love God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and His body of people (true Christians that don't speak death to you or sound like they don't want you having life or happiness--you get away from that person/those people. He live a normal life like everyone else, yet hateful to others. I don't like/love him and glad when he is thrown in the Lake of Fire. All darkness gone, with all evil.The devil has existed from the beginning--he probably was Cain (the Devil). I say probably because I mix those brothers up--their names. It's a Christian church you want to belong to. I found out it's not the Presbyterian (their bible is incorrect. I did write them, so they probably fixed that if they want to believe right, yet it's stated the devil does that religion, the Baptist church isn't perfect--a pastor wouldn't also agree with every word the bible stated and changed it up--that's not right. Only the Christian church (Christian/Christianity). Satan is completely evil--flee. Stay praying/love God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit (called Trinity by some pastors) and God's body of persons--we love. It's been kind of hard for me to speak with a stranger in person because Satan has been around--I flee him and won't stop for the stranger; something is always wrong or I'm sure of now the person can be wrong--only come to steal, kill, and destroy. The person might want to hurt you. Only Christians.

 

[RaymondG]

It’s what I did say.

Paul described carrying about a body of rotting flesh tied to his living body that may be the scripture equivalent.

Ok, I believe this thread is talking about a satan more akin to the red guy carrying the pitch fork.....but maybe he is good looking and in angel form instead.... This is the image im talking about....but any other interpretations of the image.

 

[joshua 1 9]

But can Christianity work (i.e. make sense) without the concept of The Devil? I say it can’t

It is ALWAYS best to go back to the beginning. Then you can develop something from there. In this case the beginning is Genesis chapter three where we have Adam, Eve, the Serpent & the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made." (Genesis 3:1) In this case we can sneak a peek at the last book in the Bible: "He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years." (Revelation20:2)

And he went and contacted my mother, telling her he was worried because I believed in Satan. How outrageous is that!

We do not have to accept the Bible as literal. Even if we did there are around 30 passages where a serpent is a serpent. This is what we call an archetype. He may have a different explanation then you do. His understanding of the Bible may be different from your understanding. Also as we read and study the verses in the Bible that pertain to this perhaps most everyone is going to have some disagreement over how to translate and understand those passages. For example who was the King of Tyre in Ezekiel 28? Lots of people believe this is a reference to Satan but not everyone agrees.

As a Christian we are to keep our Ego in check. Pastors have a problem doing this sometimes. They want you to accept their understanding and interpretation of the Bible. So the issue here has to do with your interpretation of the Bible seems to be different then his. We do not actually teach the truth though. People have to discover the truth for themselves. So it is the pastors job to help you to discover truth for yourself. You are making this difficult for him because your concept of the truth is different then his and your interpretation of the Bible appears to be different then his interpretation.

Paul said: "No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval." (1Cor11:19) Here we can begin to see why your pastor would be concerned. Because these differences are intended to show who has God's approval and who is not approved by God. This is something he needs to deal with but he may not want to deal with.

 

[zoidar]

I believe in Satan/The Devil (but not as a red dude with horns etc.)

But many Christians don’t, even though he’s clearly in the bible

But can Christianity work (i.e. make sense) without the concept of The Devil?

I say it can’t

Light without darkness makes no sense

Does anyone here think Christianity can work without The Devil?

I say: Just because you don't like the idea of The Devil doesn't make it untrue!

Allow me to share a story:

Before I became Christian I attended a Unitarian chapel

I mentioned to the minister there that I believed in Satan

And he went and contacted my mother, telling her he was worried because I believed in Satan

How outrageous is that!

Wether he is red and horned is not of importance. His existence is a good explanation why all the evil in the world, it explains the fall of man. Could you be a Christian without believing in his existence? I guess, but it will certainly complicate things.

Btw, where and when does the red, horned image of him come from?

 

[Redwingfan9]

I believe in Satan/The Devil (but not as a red dude with horns etc.)

But many Christians don’t, even though he’s clearly in the bible

But can Christianity work (i.e. make sense) without the concept of The Devil?

I say it can’t

Light without darkness makes no sense

Does anyone here think Christianity can work without The Devil?

I say: Just because you don't like the idea of The Devil doesn't make it untrue!

Allow me to share a story:

Before I became Christian I attended a Unitarian chapel

I mentioned to the minister there that I believed in Satan

And he went and contacted my mother, telling her he was worried because I believed in Satan

How outrageous is that!

Anyone claiming that Satan doesn't exist in the Christian faith is presenting false doctrine.

That said, believers do tend to make more of Satan than he actually is. He's bound at the moment and his power is limited. He failed to tempt Christ, he has already lost the battle.

 

[jahel]

Ok, I believe this thread is talking about a satan more akin to the red guy carrying the pitch fork.....but maybe he is good looking and in angel form instead.... This is the image im talking about....but any other interpretations of the image.

It couldn’t possibly matter, after the fall, if the red guy carrying the pitch fork exists or not as long as he has progeny. That’s the image I carry away from it.

 

[RaymondG]

It couldn’t possibly matter, after the fall, if the red guy carrying the pitch fork exists or not as long as he has progeny. That’s the image I carry away from it.

When you are the author of the thread, then it will only matter how you view the topics and ideas in the thread. When you are not the author, your opinion on the interpretations of the ideas presented in the OP, matters less.

 

[1213]

...
But can Christianity work (i.e. make sense) without the concept of The Devil?...

I think it depends on how Christianity is defined. Originally Christian meant a disciple of Jesus. Christian are people who remain in words of Jesus. And I think that is the pure Christianity. I don’t see any reason why that could not be possible without Satan. I think people can follow Jesus, even if Satan would not exist.

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

When he found him, he brought him to Antioch, and for a whole year they were guests of the church and taught a large crowd. It was in Antioch that the disciples were first called Christians.
Acts 11:26

 

[dqhall]

I believe in Satan/The Devil (but not as a red dude with horns etc.)

But many Christians don’t, even though he’s clearly in the bible

But can Christianity work (i.e. make sense) without the concept of The Devil?

I say it can’t

Light without darkness makes no sense

Does anyone here think Christianity can work without The Devil?

I say: Just because you don't like the idea of The Devil doesn't make it untrue!

Allow me to share a story:

Before I became Christian I attended a Unitarian chapel

I mentioned to the minister there that I believed in Satan

And he went and contacted my mother, telling her he was worried because I believed in Satan

How outrageous is that!

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.
The light shined in the darkness and the darkness did not perceive it.

If you trust in dishonest and murderous people, you might not receive salvation. If you believe Satan rather than God, some will depart from you.

 

[Pedra]

Are you saying that the devil is critical to your salvation?

The bible states to believe in Jesus and you will be saved... Are you saying that it is incorrect to believe only in Jesus....You must believe in Jesus and Satan to be saved? And that if you removed satan....Belief in Jesus alone, would not be enough?

No one can know the gospel if you take out crucial pieces of information that the Holy Spirit inspired men to write in the Bible , in order to teach people about the beginning starting in Genesis, Satan deceiving Eve, Adam disobeying God being cast out of the Garden of Eden, The Fall, the consequences for sin, death & God's cursing the earth, the need for repentance & salvation through Jesus Christ. How can you take out the whole the reason for Adam & Eve being tempted, rebelling against the LORD God and the whole earth falling under the curse?
A person cannot know the Holy God of the Bible, His only begotten Son Jesus, the gospel or nor can have salvation if they have not been given the whole story written as God's Word & how it illustrates where sin came from & the necessity for salvation in the place which is to save us from eternal punishment in hell, which the bible tells us was created for Satan & his angels.
Why withhold the Truth given by God for mankind to save them from judgment and destruction & offer them forgiveness and eternal life?
The only one who benefits from people thinking Satan doesn't exist is Satan--the adversary of God. It is crucial for people to heed the truth & recognize the Bible is the only spiritual authority that has been written down by men through the Holy Spirit so that they would know the TRUTH and the TRUTH would set them free.

 

[Pedra]

Already done that

Glad to hear it.