Christianity without Satan?

[nopq]

I believe in Satan/The Devil (but not as a red dude with horns etc.)

But many Christians don’t, even though he’s clearly in the bible

But can Christianity work (i.e. make sense) without the concept of The Devil?

I say it can’t

Light without darkness makes no sense

Does anyone here think Christianity can work without The Devil?

I say: Just because you don't like the idea of The Devil doesn't make it untrue!

Allow me to share a story:

Before I became Christian I attended a Unitarian chapel

I mentioned to the minister there that I believed in Satan

And he went and contacted my mother, telling her he was worried because I believed in Satan

How outrageous is that!

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I believe in Satan/The Devil (but not as a red dude with horns etc.)

But many Christians don’t, even though he’s clearly in the bible

But can Christianity work (i.e. make sense) without the concept of The Devil?

I say it can’t

Light without darkness makes no sense

Does anyone here think Christianity can work without The Devil?

I say: Just because you don't like the idea of The Devil doesn't make it untrue!

Allow me to share a story:

Before I became Christian I attended a Unitarian chapel

I mentioned to the minister there that I believed in Satan

And he went and contacted my mother, telling her he was worried because I believed in Satan

How outrageous is that!

Well, Christianity isn't dualistic, there is only God the creator and then creation. God made everything through Christ, and He saw it was very good. Evil is just a falling away from the good, it has no independent creative capacity. So the devil is just a fallen angel. It's a case of 'Big God, small devil'.

So in the Eschaton, the time of restoration of all things (Acts 3:21), when everything is renewed (Mat 19:28, Rev 21:5), heaven will come to earth and the devil will be cast into the lake of fire.

Where Christ rules, the devil is overcome. And so the total victory of Christ will be the vanquishing of the devil, or more correctly, once the smoke of his torment/ testing is just a memory, he'll be reconciled to God and restored to his true angelic form in Christ.

When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. (1 Cor 15:28)

 

[JackRT]

God didn't create Satan, man did. Satan (ha'shaitan) occurs by name in the Old Testament in the parable we call the Book of Job, and here it's clear that the angel Satan is not the Devil! The Devil is supposedly banished from the presence of God, yet in Job, Satan is allowed to talk with and to come and go from God's presence and on a mission for God yet! What's going on? Satan here is not "the Devil" but sort of God's prosecuting attorney, an unwelcome character to be sure but not an evil one. There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. This misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14: " 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous reference to his human nature like Isaiah 14: "16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil. The Jews did not originally believe in devils but they picked up this concept during the Babylonian Exile from the Persians who followed Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrians believed in both a god of good (Ahura-Mazda) and a god of evil (Ahrulman) engaged in a cosmic struggle. The Jews picked up and ran with this idea. It was easy to cast YHWH in the role of the God of good. They took also the angel ha'shaitan (Satan) in the book of Job and recast that character as Satan the near divine force of evil. Up to that time, their concept of God was of a being responsible for everything, both good and evil. Isaiah 45:”7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” is just one quote that demonstrates this. The Jews never connected Satan to the serpent in the Garden of Eden. It was the second-century Christian martyr, Justin of Samaria, who was first to argue that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God.

 

[AllDayFaith]

I'm sorry but the devil and all his followers were banished from Heaven to dwell among men. One day Christ will return and destroy all evil men. I've heard that whoever translated the Bible from it's original language got the word Aeon wrong. They misinterpreted Aeon as eternity when it actually means for a set amount of time. I'm not sure what to believe, but I guess it's not important. As long as Christ makes things right we don't have anything to really worry about.

 

[Norbert L]

I believe in Satan/The Devil (but not as a red dude with horns etc.)

But many Christians don’t, even though he’s clearly in the bible

But can Christianity work (i.e. make sense) without the concept of The Devil?

I say it can’t

Light without darkness makes no sense

Does anyone here think Christianity can work without The Devil?

I say: Just because you don't like the idea of The Devil doesn't make it untrue!

Allow me to share a story:

Before I became Christian I attended a Unitarian chapel

I mentioned to the minister there that I believed in Satan

And he went and contacted my mother, telling her he was worried because I believed in Satan

How outrageous is that!

Obviously for some people their views about Christianity go as far as turning Satan into fiction. For them it makes sense that way. There is a dismissal of varying degrees about the supernatural even among people who understand there is supernatural world. One them is about who is Satan.

It takes some effort to sort through the relevant information about this topic, it's not a clear as I would like and there are some Christians who hold very strong convictions one way or the other. So in my view it's a subject where it's OK to agree to disagree.

 

[RaymondG]

I believe in Satan/The Devil (but not as a red dude with horns etc.)

But many Christians don’t, even though he’s clearly in the bible

But can Christianity work (i.e. make sense) without the concept of The Devil?

I say it can’t

Light without darkness makes no sense

Does anyone here think Christianity can work without The Devil?

I say: Just because you don't like the idea of The Devil doesn't make it untrue!

Allow me to share a story:

Before I became Christian I attended a Unitarian chapel

I mentioned to the minister there that I believed in Satan

And he went and contacted my mother, telling her he was worried because I believed in Satan

How outrageous is that!

I understand the chapels concern...... The main theme in church is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved!.... What do you think the theme of a Satan worship gathering would be?

I am the Lord and Besides me, there is non other.

I would refrain from confessions of belief in devils.....especially in a place where the worship of God is supposed to take place.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I understand the chapels concern...... The main theme in church is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved!.... What do you think the theme of a Satan worship gathering would be?

I am the Lord and Besides me, there is non other.

I would refrain from confessions of belief in devils.....especially in a place where the worship of God is supposed to take place.

It sounds like a case of crossed wires, nopq may have been trying to say he believed in the existence of satan, but came across as a satanist. In the 'awkward church moments' category. Let's see if he wants to clarify.

 

[Pedra]

I believe in Satan/The Devil (but not as a red dude with horns etc.)

But many Christians don’t, even though he’s clearly in the bible

But can Christianity work (i.e. make sense) without the concept of The Devil?

I say it can’t

Light without darkness makes no sense

Does anyone here think Christianity can work without The Devil?

I say: Just because you don't like the idea of The Devil doesn't make it untrue!

Allow me to share a story:

Before I became Christian I attended a Unitarian chapel

I mentioned to the minister there that I believed in Satan

And he went and contacted my mother, telling her he was worried because I believed in Satan

How outrageous is that!

Bud, You need to seek out a denomination that believes the Bible is the word of God --as it declares that it is. That minister is deceived , how can a person even be saved if they don't believe what is in the word of God? No you cannot have Christianity and not believe what the Bible teaches about Satan. This is why I left the denomination I grew up in because they were the same as your minister and it did not make any spiritual sense - whatsoever!
Those denominations that believe the Bible is all metaphorical are teaching heresies. Believe the words of Jesus , believe in the words of His apostles written in the N.T. that warn about Satan.
Read & study your Bible and know that it is God's own manuscript to man, it is Truth & He will lead & educate you through His word and save your soul if you believe with faith that Jesus is the Son of God who paid the penalty for your sin, & resurrected in to heaven. If a church is teaching that Satan is just metaphorical they are also denying 3/4 of the Bible, they will most likely be preaching a social gospel rather then the gospel of salvation. Check out Pastor Barry Stagner and www.Hischannel.com , Lion & Lamb Ministries with Dr. David Reagan , Pastor Jack Hibbs and other Bible believing ministries.

 

[Pedra]

God didn't create Satan, man did. Satan (ha'shaitan) occurs by name in the Old Testament in the parable we call the Book of Job, and here it's clear that the angel Satan is not the Devil! The Devil is supposedly banished from the presence of God, yet in Job, Satan is allowed to talk with and to come and go from God's presence and on a mission for God yet! What's going on? Satan here is not "the Devil" but sort of God's prosecuting attorney, an unwelcome character to be sure but not an evil one. There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. This misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14: " 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous reference to his human nature like Isaiah 14: "16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil. The Jews did not originally believe in devils but they picked up this concept during the Babylonian Exile from the Persians who followed Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrians believed in both a god of good (Ahura-Mazda) and a god of evil (Ahrulman) engaged in a cosmic struggle. The Jews picked up and ran with this idea. It was easy to cast YHWH in the role of the God of good. They took also the angel ha'shaitan (Satan) in the book of Job and recast that character as Satan the near divine force of evil. Up to that time, their concept of God was of a being responsible for everything, both good and evil. Isaiah 45:”7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” is just one quote that demonstrates this. The Jews never connected Satan to the serpent in the Garden of Eden. It was the second-century Christian martyr, Justin of Samaria, who was first to argue that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God.

Man did not create Satan.
What you are preaching is not from the Bible therefore it is not Christian theology. Satan is called the Father of lies by Jesus Himself.
According to the Bible , Satan who was called Lucifer, was once a powerful, beautiful cherub, an angelic being who became vain wanting to be worshiped as God & rebelled against the Most High God. The Bible says the sin of pride was found in him, there was a battle in heaven and archangel Michael & God's angels fought against this rebellion and Lucifer was was cast out of heaven along with 1/3 of the angels who went with him. He was referred to as Satan - the adversary of God.
What you believe is not Christian theology.
The Christian view can be found here for anyone who wants good information that is backed up with scriptures.

Does Satan exist? | GotQuestions.org

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

It sounds like a case of crossed wires, nopq may have been trying to say he believed in the existence of satan, but came across as a satanist.

He said it in a Unitarian church. I may be wrong, but I don't think they accept the existence of Satan at all. If you're trying to paint an irrationally rosy picture that all roads lead to truth, light and Heaven, then Satan doesn't play well into that idea.

 

[RaymondG]

No you cannot have Christianity and not believe what the Bible teaches about Satan. This is why I left the denomination I grew up in because they were the same as your minister and it did not make any spiritual sense - whatsoever!

Are you saying that the devil is critical to your salvation?

The bible states to believe in Jesus and you will be saved... Are you saying that it is incorrect to believe only in Jesus....You must believe in Jesus and Satan to be saved? And that if you removed satan....Belief in Jesus alone, would not be enough?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="nopq, post: 74481360, member: 419726"]I believe in Satan/The Devil (but not as a red dude with horns etc.)

But many Christians don’t, even though he’s clearly in the bible

But can Christianity work (i.e. make sense) without the concept of The Devil?

I say it can’t

Light without darkness makes no sense

Does anyone here think Christianity can work without The Devil?

I say: Just because you don't like the idea of The Devil doesn't make it untrue!

Allow me to share a story:

Before I became Christian I attended a Unitarian chapel

I mentioned to the minister there that I believed in Satan

And he went and contacted my mother, telling her he was worried because I believed in Satan

How outrageous is that![/QUOTE
=============================================
He rejected God's Word, He rejected Jesus, He rejected the Father in heaven. (as Jesus says, whoever rejects God's Word has already rejected Jesus and the Father.)

 

[public hermit]

But can Christianity work (i.e. make sense) without the concept of The Devil?

Yes, just look around. Evil is everywhere and we have empirical confirmation in what people do. Even if there were no Devil, or Satan, or an angelic and malevolent Adversary, there would be plenty of people. No need to fear a shortage of evil or sin when you have plenty of people.

 

[jahel]

The garden story teaches that the flesh is the dwelling place of satan and he lives there until adopted to resurrection. Flesh made of dust is the food of satan and why being born from above is necessary. Satan eats anything made from dust.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

God didn't create Satan, man did. Satan (ha'shaitan) occurs by name in the Old Testament in the parable we call the Book of Job, and here it's clear that the angel Satan is not the Devil! The Devil is supposedly banished from the presence of God, yet in Job, Satan is allowed to talk with and to come and go from God's presence and on a mission for God yet! What's going on? Satan here is not "the Devil" but sort of God's prosecuting attorney, an unwelcome character to be sure but not an evil one. There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. This misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14: " 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous reference to his human nature like Isaiah 14: "16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil. The Jews did not originally believe in devils but they picked up this concept during the Babylonian Exile from the Persians who followed Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrians believed in both a god of good (Ahura-Mazda) and a god of evil (Ahrulman) engaged in a cosmic struggle. The Jews picked up and ran with this idea. It was easy to cast YHWH in the role of the God of good. They took also the angel ha'shaitan (Satan) in the book of Job and recast that character as Satan the near divine force of evil. Up to that time, their concept of God was of a being responsible for everything, both good and evil. Isaiah 45:”7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” is just one quote that demonstrates this. The Jews never connected Satan to the serpent in the Garden of Eden. It was the second-century Christian martyr, Justin of Samaria, who was first to argue that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God.

In Rev we see Satan is not the personification of evil he has given his authority to the beast. He is not bound now nor until the 2nd coming of Jesus. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[fn] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. When Jesus was temped by the devil 3 times and Jesus then said get behind me Satan. He was not talking about an allegory. Jesus warning to Peter was And the Lord said,[fn] “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. This makes no sense in the way you see it.

 

[NBB]

God didn't create Satan, man did. Satan (ha'shaitan) occurs by name in the Old Testament in the parable we call the Book of Job, and here it's clear that the angel Satan is not the Devil! The Devil is supposedly banished from the presence of God, yet in Job, Satan is allowed to talk with and to come and go from God's presence and on a mission for God yet! What's going on? Satan here is not "the Devil" but sort of God's prosecuting attorney, an unwelcome character to be sure but not an evil one. There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. This misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14: " 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous reference to his human nature like Isaiah 14: "16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil. The Jews did not originally believe in devils but they picked up this concept during the Babylonian Exile from the Persians who followed Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrians believed in both a god of good (Ahura-Mazda) and a god of evil (Ahrulman) engaged in a cosmic struggle. The Jews picked up and ran with this idea. It was easy to cast YHWH in the role of the God of good. They took also the angel ha'shaitan (Satan) in the book of Job and recast that character as Satan the near divine force of evil. Up to that time, their concept of God was of a being responsible for everything, both good and evil. Isaiah 45:”7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” is just one quote that demonstrates this. The Jews never connected Satan to the serpent in the Garden of Eden. It was the second-century Christian martyr, Justin of Samaria, who was first to argue that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God.

Yeah, you can believe satan doesn't exists, until you try to grow in Christ and suddenly he attacks you, and the forces of satan become very real... not that i just suggest you are not growing...
If you stay in the margin he doesn't care, even is better to him that you ignore all that.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

God didn't create Satan, man did. Satan is not the Devil

100% Heresy

These verses put it all together :


He laid hold of The Dragon, That Serpent Of Old, Who Is The Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
• Revelation 20:2


So The Great Dragon was cast out, That Serpent Of Old, Called The Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
• Revelation 12:9


.

 

[nopq]

I understand the chapels concern...... The main theme in church is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved!.... What do you think the theme of a Satan worship gathering would be?

I am the Lord and Besides me, there is non other.

I would refrain from confessions of belief in devils.....especially in a place where the worship of God is supposed to take place.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree:

It was a Unitarian church, the type of place where you'll find no talk of being saved through Lord Jesus Christ

And I never mentioned Satan worship, the topic of evil came up in the after service coffee gathering and I mentioned a belief in Satan - and I think Satan is an appropriate thing to mention in a religious discussion about evil

 

[nopq]

Bud, You need to seek out a denomination that believes the Bible is the word of God --as it declares that it is.

Already done that

 

[nopq]

He said it in a Unitarian church. I may be wrong, but I don't think they accept the existence of Satan at all.

I'd say you're quite right

If you were to walk into a Unitarian church and declare yourself a worshipper of Satan I'm pretty sure they'd be sure to welcome you in