• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Christianity and Paganism

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ramr

Active Member
Jul 19, 2005
27
2
✟157.00
Faith
Other Religion
Talitha,

"The fact is that the God of Christianity (also known as "Yah," which someone else on this thread observed) has forbidden the mixing of religions. If you mix Christianity with something else, you end up with something that is not Christianity at all. "

- Christianity is a mixture already. It becomes obvious to anyone who knows the history well enough. The real history, not the legend supported by Christian Church and by faith of the Church Christians. To be a mixture does not always mean something wrong. I think any teaching is a mix, a result of interacting different cultures. It's normal. But sometimes mixing is a wrong indeed. So we must differentiate these two situations. Probably mixing is a wrong when lofty ideals cannot be manifested through the mixture. Not merely lofty ideals, but ideals which correspond to current stage of society consciousness. I think the Church Christianity is not a perfect mixture in this sense. Because it separate God from people by declaring Jesus a part of Trinity, although Jesus himself placed divinity among people: "what you do for somebody that you do for Me" (I'm not sure in this English version of the statement, but I hope the sense is understood). Separating God from people leads to a form of idolatry and it is deadly sin of Christian Church. In the effort to exalt Jesus the Church debased him in fact. It was also the way of transformation of the Church into a sect. But if we also place divinity among people, we will get a new understanding of Christianity, it would be Christianity without racial and religious frontiers. So, I have certainly ended up with something that is not Church Christianity at all, but it definitely is Christianity.

"I strayed from what I know is the TRUTH (using all-caps to distinguish TRUTH from mere facts) because I wanted to do my own thing."

- Regarding Castaneda. I’m glad to “see” here person who is familiar with all his books. Really with all? That means you was really carried with his books. So I still hope to convert you to magic once again :) What is the Satanic deception you are talking about? You should aware it very clearly. If you don’t, your understanding is not inspired by the Lord, as you think. I don’t take all what Castaneda described. I take only the best, the very abstract essence of magic. I took only what I wanted to take. Probably it was your problem – you took it as it is. It is only a stage of a person’s development, we make a mistake and then we can correct it. God permits us to make mistakes, if they are results of our sincere belief. God likes hot and cold, not mere warm, as stated in the Bible. According to it, do you think God likes Castaneda more then millions followers of the Christian Church, who are mere warm indeed? It is the main question: in fact the ideal of Christian Church is to make those “mere warm” as many as possible. But TRUTH makes us free, do you remember? I can freely feel about anything, but you cannot. You have forbidden subjects in your consciousness, which is the result of the Church propaganda. The freedom is the only inner criterion of TRUTH, isn’t it?
 
Upvote 0

Ramr

Active Member
Jul 19, 2005
27
2
✟157.00
Faith
Other Religion
DaveS,

"...I don't see that Christianity is 'falling' as you say and how would paganism possibly save it?"

- You are right, the Christian Church is still in power. It was only my prediction, I can easily foresee its collapse, starting from what I've said about communism in Russia and what I've said to Chrysalis Kat about the first ages of Christianity. Compare it. When a teaching becomes a state ideology, it is always dangerous for that teaching, especially when it brings some wrong ideas.

Regarding paganism. We still don't define it. For example, ancient Egyptians believed in one God, it is merely a fact, although not much known fact. And also they had pantheon of deities. They didn't see contradiction in it, I doesn't too. But first we should determine the notion "paganism". I'll try to do it later on.
 
Upvote 0

talitha

Cultivate Honduras
Nov 5, 2004
8,365
993
61
Tegucigalpa, Honduras
Visit site
✟37,601.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Ramr, I disagree with you. Your mind is obviously more made up than it appeared to be when I read your OP, and I see that you are determined to remain in darkness. That is to me very sad. There is absolutely no going back to paganism for me.

blessings in Christ alone
tal
 
Upvote 0

DaveS

Veteran
Jul 23, 2005
1,411
54
35
Swansea, Wales
✟24,486.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
DaveS,

"...I don't see that Christianity is 'falling' as you say and how would paganism possibly save it?"

- You are right, the Christian Church is still in power. It was only my prediction, I can easily foresee its collapse, starting from what I've said about communism in Russia and what I've said to Chrysalis Kat about the first ages of Christianity. Compare it. When a teaching becomes a state ideology, it is always dangerous for that teaching, especially when it brings some wrong ideas.

So all this talk of paganism really isn't actually beneficial for any Christians at the moment? I don't know where your ideas of 'state idealology' come from either as, I'm sure you are aware, there is no country that I know of that uses the Bible as a source of authority. Even countries where Christianity is the state religion, the Bible is not used. Law books are. Secondly, all religions need an 'ideal' in order to get their message across and, as far as I'm aware, ther are no 'wrong ideas' in the Bible.

appeared to be when I read your OP,

I've been trying to work this out, 'OP' means 'opening post' right?
 
Upvote 0

talitha

Cultivate Honduras
Nov 5, 2004
8,365
993
61
Tegucigalpa, Honduras
Visit site
✟37,601.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Ramr said:
- Regarding Castaneda. I’m glad to “see” here person who is familiar with all his books. Really with all? That means you was really carried with his books. So I still hope to convert you to magic once again :)

You were saying?
 
Upvote 0

Chrysalis Kat

Gettin' Riggy With It
Nov 25, 2004
4,052
312
TEXAS
✟28,387.00
Faith
Politics
US-Democrat
talitha said:
You were saying?
First off, that comment wasn't directed at you at all.
Note the emotive. It's what known as 'cheeky humor'as opposed to writing off a new member that so far has only shown respect to all as "living in darkness" because you disagree with (and/or completely don't understand)their perspectives.
 
Upvote 0

talitha

Cultivate Honduras
Nov 5, 2004
8,365
993
61
Tegucigalpa, Honduras
Visit site
✟37,601.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
ChrysalisKat,

Surely you understand that when I say someone is living in darkness, it is not a comment on the person's intrensic worth. If a diamond is in a junk yard, it is still a diamond. What I don't understand is why you are using this thread as a place for being combattive with me.

blessings in Christ alone
tal
 
Upvote 0

Chrysalis Kat

Gettin' Riggy With It
Nov 25, 2004
4,052
312
TEXAS
✟28,387.00
Faith
Politics
US-Democrat
talitha said:
ChrysalisKat,

Surely you understand that when I say someone is living in darkness, it is not a comment on the person's intrensic worth. If a diamond is in a junk yard, it is still a diamond. What I don't understand is why you are using this thread as a place for being combattive with me.

blessings in Christ alone
tal
Telling anyone, especially a person that you don't even know, they are 'in darkness' is never a compliment no matter how you want to spin it now.

Ramr has shown, at the very least, to have something worthwhile and interesting to bring forth for discussion.

Whenever new people join the forum desiring to gain and exchange knowledge that is a good thing. This is something I will always support, even if that means fighting for it.

 
Upvote 0

SackLunch

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2005
1,385
58
53
BBQ Heaven: Texas, USA
✟1,884.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Chrysalis Kat said:
First off, that comment wasn't directed at you at all.
Note the emotive. It's what known as 'cheeky humor'as opposed to writing off a new member that so far has only shown respect to all as "living in darkness" because you disagree with (and/or completely don't understand)their perspectives.
Er...no...it's because the same Bible that you claim to uphold as a "Christian" pagan tells you that 1) Paganism, witchcraft, and sorcery is evil in God's sight and we should have nothing to do with it; and 2) The Bible tells you that Jesus is the ONLY WAY to God and the ONLY WAY to eternal life with God.

It's not that we don't understand your perspective. We know exactly what it is and we're simply rejecting it based on the fact that it does not square with the Bible, which again, you claim to believe in.
 
Upvote 0

Abbadon

Self Bias Resistor - goin' commando in a cassock!
Jan 26, 2005
6,022
335
38
Bible belt, unfortunatly
✟30,412.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Ramr said:
Hi. I’m a beginner at this forum. I just want to learn English in this way, but the questions of Christianity are really interesting to me. I consider myself as a Christian, because I’m really impressed and inspired by lofty ideals of Jesus. At the same time magic is my lively faith. I don’t see a contradiction in it. But I see contradictions with Christian Church’ theories. Don’t laugh at my English, I will appreciate if anybody will correct me. A small extract from Russian-language forum where I am used to posting is given below.

Taking into account deep evangelical symbolism, we cannot pass over THE FIRST event after Jesus’ birth: visit of magicians who came from the East and brought symbolic gifts. The magicians were led by a star. Think about it, it is really striking. Sorcery is severely condemned by Christian Church, but those sorcerers were chosen by God to be the first who had understood the Jesus’ mission BEFORE of his preaching. Only great divine prophets can do that, but in the Gospel they are clearly referred to as magicians. In my opinion it means that there is no contradiction between Jesus’ teaching and an essence of magic practices.

The Magi weren't sorcerers. There is a difference.

Sorcerers are those that use evil magic to harm people, the Magi where astronomers, astrologists, and priests in the Zoroastrian religion.
 
Upvote 0

Ramr

Active Member
Jul 19, 2005
27
2
✟157.00
Faith
Other Religion
Friends, don't quarrel. "Living in darkness" doesn't humiliate me at all. First because I am grateful to this "darkness", it is the most important thing in my life. Secondly I first started to call Church as sect and teaching of Church as propaganda without sufficient substantiation of it. I have a long enough text about all these subjects, but it is written in Russian. The text is an essence of my discussions in different Internet forums and each such discussion adds something to it. Probably I should present this text at first, but I'm not sure whether this place is suitable for such texts. From the other hand, it is not too long. So, I'll try. Probably in a new thread.

Talitha,

I've not found the word "dirth" in vocabulary. You probably meant difficulties with good Christian teaching in Russia. But don't you think that such a teaching should be based on proper logic and possibility to answer on any questions which may have those you are trying to convert? Here you give example of "good Christian teaching" in fact. It might seem that the task to convert somebody who already acknowledges Jesus and the Gospel is not too hard :)

SackLunch,

"1) Paganism, witchcraft, and sorcery is evil in God's sight and we should have nothing to do with it"

- I started the thread with the first event described in the Gospel, when Jesus received magi who certainly were pagans and most likely astrologists. Jesus had accepted their symbolical gifts. And I stress that in the Gospel those men are not presented as repenting in their paganism, but rather they presented paganism.

"2) The Bible tells you that Jesus is the ONLY WAY to God and the ONLY WAY to eternal life with God."

- LOVE is the only way to be saved, isn't it? So I think Jesus meant love which he presented through himself. Will you deny that some of Jesus's words should be treated symbolically?
 
Upvote 0

peepnklown

rabbi peepnklown
Jun 17, 2005
4,834
222
California
Visit site
✟30,864.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
Abbadon said:
The Magi weren't sorcerers. There is a difference.

Sorcerers are those that use evil magic to harm people, the Magi where astronomers, astrologists, and priests in the Zoroastrian religion.
Not true, sorcery: use of supernatural power over others through the assistance of spirits; witchcraft. It can either be good or bad.
 
Upvote 0

peepnklown

rabbi peepnklown
Jun 17, 2005
4,834
222
California
Visit site
✟30,864.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
SackLunch said:
Er...no...it's because the same Bible that you claim to uphold as a "Christian" pagan tells you that 1) Paganism, witchcraft, and sorcery is evil in God's sight and we should have nothing to do with it; and 2) The Bible tells you that Jesus is the ONLY WAY to God and the ONLY WAY to eternal life with God.

It's not that we don't understand your perspective. We know exactly what it is and we're simply rejecting it based on the fact that it does not square with the Bible, which again, you claim to believe in.


God doesn’t like sorcery?

Exodus 29:20-21

Exodus 29:22-24

Leviticus 1-9

Leviticus 4:6, 4:17

Leviticus 14:2-52

Numbers 17:8
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.