Christianity and Capital Punishment

[akaDaScribe]

From a strictly Christian perspective, in terms God's overall view of it, it seems to me like judgement day includes capital punishment; the second death. It doesn't make it my job to do it now or then, but sometimes it seems like people mistake God's grace and mercy for how He really views things.

 

[SolomonVII]

if in the earliest centuries of the church, capital punishment was applied to Christians, then perhaps a similar danger lurks in the time of Gog and Magog? If the first Christians on this earth were persecuted with capital punishment then perhaps the last Christians on this planet (prior to final judgment day) will have to fear the same ???

The persecution will probably be more along the lines of losing your livelihood in the Western world, and genocide like in the ME as is happening already. Capital punishment and torture will be the persecution method to deal with being Christian in China, as is happening now.
Maybe it will be hard to distinguish end times from post modern times actually.

 

[SolomonVII]

From a strictly Christian perspective, in terms God's overall view of it, it seems to me like judgement day includes capital punishment; the second death. It doesn't make it my job to do it now or then, but sometimes it seems like people mistake God's grace and mercy for how He really views things.

Many people who criticize this latest change of the catechism do not do so from the perspective of a greatly reduced rate of capital punishment, even a rate of zero. It has more to do with what saying capital punishment is anti Christian and immoral in correctly teaches us about God. Judgment day is the severest punishment of all. If it is not, Justice is reduced to farce.

 

[akaDaScribe]

In one case there were nine witnesses that said the innocent man had done it. Later seven of them recanted. He was proven innocent. In another case a woman gave a description of the man who raped her. The police suggested someone else to her and she agreed that was that man. It was later proven that it wasn't him at all.

To clarify, recently there was a gang in NY who pulled a kid out of a store, stabbed him multiple times, left him for dead, and he did die. This was done on the street and it was caught on film because of the store cameras. So, we have video tape and many witnesses. I consider that to be overwhelming evidence.

 

[discipler7]

I don't think "to err is human" is an acceptable standard for purposely taking someone's life.

Who are ones purposely taking the lives of wrongly convicted murderers.?

To err means to make mistakes. To err does not mean to purposely make mistakes.

What if your son dies from a car accident caused by an erring driver.? You want to abolish driving and ban cars, like you want to abolish the death penalty.?

"Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater."
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P S - About 30,000 Americans die each year from vehicular accidents. Over a span of about 20 years, only about 120 Americans were wrongly convicted of murder with only about 30 of them being actually executed.

No human-administered system can be perfect, including the legal system.

 

[discipler7]

To clarify, recently there was a gang in NY who pulled a kid out of a store, stabbed him multiple times, left him for dead, and he did die. This was done on the street and it was caught on film because of the store cameras. So, we have video tape and many witnesses. I consider that to be overwhelming evidence.

So, should the NY gangsters be given the death penalty for murder.?

 

[SolomonVII]

So, should the NY gangsters be given the death penalty for murder.?

The better question might be would it be immoral or anti Christian if the were given the death penalty?

 

[akaDaScribe]

Who are ones purposely taking the lives of wrongly convicted murderers.?

To err means to make mistakes. To err does not mean to purposely make mistakes.

What if your son dies from a car accident caused by an erring driver.? You want to abolish driving and ban cars, like you want to abolish the death penalty.?

"Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater."
.
.
P S - About 30,000 Americans die each year from vehicular accidents. Over a span of about 20 years, only about 120 Americans were wrongly convicted of murder with only about 30 of them being actually executed.

No human-administered system can be perfect, including the legal system.

There are not just people wrongly convicted by mistake. There are also people who are wrongly convicted due to corruption within the legal system. Purposely false evidence, withholding evidence, etc. There are people within the judicial system who are more interested in their conviction rates than actually getting to the truth. Documentaries and articles have been written about these things.

I don't think it's unreasonable to have a higher standard of evidence before making a mistake uncorrectable.

You are correct that there are very few instances where capital punishment are carried out. If that was to change, however, then yeah, there needs to be a higher standard of evidence for capital punishment in my opinion because we do not want our government to be any more guilty of innocent blood than it is/has to be.

 

[akaDaScribe]

So, should the NY gangsters be given the death penalty for murder.?

That's up to the government. However, I will say this. When the government does not carry out justice, it encourages it's citizens to carry it out by other means. People always think about the redemption of the criminal, but who considers the salvation of the victim's family? How many have lost their way because they could not reconcile the injustice? Just something to think about.

 

[Hank77]

To clarify, recently there was a gang in NY who pulled a kid out of a store, stabbed him multiple times, left him for dead, and he did die. This was done on the street and it was caught on film because of the store cameras. So, we have video tape and many witnesses. I consider that to be overwhelming evidence.

I do too if their faces can be clearly seen and clearly identified by more than one person.

NY state's Constitution doesn't allow the death penalty.

 

[Philip_B]

P S - About 30,000 Americans die each year from vehicular accidents. Over a span of about 20 years, only about 120 Americans were wrongly convicted of murder with only about 30 of them being actually executed.

So are you telling me that on average one person is wrongly executed by the United States of America every eight months. In whose world is that acceptable?

 

[discipler7]

There are not just people wrongly convicted by mistake. There are also people who are wrongly convicted due to corruption within the legal system. Purposely false evidence, withholding evidence, etc. There are people within the judicial system who are more interested in their conviction rates than actually getting to the truth. Documentaries and articles have been written about these things.

Yes, abuses of the US legal system do happen which resulted in some being wrongly convicted of murder.
....... Abuses of the capitalist system also did happen during the 2008 US Housing and Stock Market crash/collapse which resulted in some being victims who lost all of their savings/money/retirement and homes. A few even committed suicide. Does that mean we should abolish the Stock and Housing Markets, like abolishing the death penalty.?

 

[discipler7]

So are you telling me that on average one person is wrongly executed by the United States of America every eight months. In whose world is that acceptable?

If USA can accept about 30,000 American persons dying from vehicular accidents every year, then USA can accept about 1 person being wrongly or mistakenly or accidentally executed every 8 months.

 

[Philip_B]

If USA can accept about 30,000 American persons dying from vehicular accidents every year, then USA can accept about 1 person being wrongly or mistakenly or accidentally executed every 8 months.

I am gobsmacked.

 

[marineimaging]

Okay, then you believe that Peter's blood should have been shed after he shed the blood of Malchus in the the Garden? Or was Jesus changing what the past had taught? The story differs somewhat amongst the Gospels but we do see Jesus telling Peter to put away his sword for he who takes up the sword shall die by the sword.

And if we keep reading as I paraphrase, -Put up the sword Peter because there are things that must happen this evening which you cannot change. If you persist in trying to stop them they will kill you. There are too many of them anyway. No, this is the beginning of what must be. I must be taken before the magistrate this day to fulfill prophesy and I do not permit you to change any of the coming events.-

 

[stealthsaint]

By now it should be well-known that Pope Francis has revised the Catholic Catechism to say that capital punishment is inadmissible. What do you think about the relationship between Christianity and capital punishment? I want to hear from all Christians, and I also want to give Catholics a place to argue. The topic is two-fold: capital punishment in general, and also specifically within the Catholic Church.

Some relevant links:

• Pope Francis Changes Catechism... (NCR)
• History of Capital Punishment in Catholicism (Stack Exchange)
• Capital Punishment and Christianity (BBC)
• Arguments for and against (Public Discourse)
• By Man Shall His Blood Be Shed: A Catholic Defense of Capital Punishment (book)
• Capital Punishment and Roman Catholic Moral Tradition (book)
• Video interview on capital punishment with Catholic philosopher, Edward Feser (Daily Wire)

IT IS WRITTEN: Rely not on own understanding.
I have one scripture comment of truth. The question is of the world, the answer submitted below is of the KINGdom NOT of the world

Matthew 6:14 For if you forgive men their offenses, your heavenly Father will forgive you also;

 

[Yarddog]

And if we keep reading as I paraphrase, -Put up the sword Peter because there are things that must happen this evening which you cannot change. If you persist in trying to stop them they will kill you. There are too many of them anyway. No, this is the beginning of what must be. I must be taken before the magistrate this day to fulfill prophesy and I do not permit you to change any of the coming events.-

Extreme paraphrasing.. .

 

[marineimaging]

Extreme paraphrasing.. .

Yep, but what I said is what I read in it.

 

[Yarddog]

Yep, but what I said is what I read in it.

Yep, what "you" read in it.

 

[Philip_B]

If USA can accept about 30,000 American persons dying from vehicular accidents every year, then USA can accept about 1 person being wrongly or mistakenly or accidentally executed every 8 months.

Sorry, I went away and came back, and I am still gobsmacked. I understand the concept of a just war, however that is not what we are talking about. This is the matter of capital punishment. You speak of only 120 wrongful murder convictions in 20 years, and only 30 innocent people being executed in that twenty year period. I believe that if that is the best you system of jurisprudence can deliver, then some major rethinking needs to be done. Those numbers are not alright. Improving road safety will still not make those figures alright.

Genesis 1:26-27
Then God said, ‘Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.’ So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.​

I also challenge the notion of people being accidentally executed. When the state executes an innocent person the state commits state sanctioned murder. It is a deliberate act. The matter of compensation when we get it wrong is that there is no adequate recompense for the victim, for the State has done the undoable.

Given that an average of say 27 people are executed in the USA each year, that means that the State gets it wrong means you have something close to a 6% error rate. One in eighteen executions in error. I have no idea how to respond, to my mind these kinds of results seem appallingly unacceptable.

And the reality is that we know that capital punishment is not a deterrent. Why on earth would you accept that this is OK. God did not create us to be collateral damage. Please think about this.