Christianity and Capital Punishment

[zippy2006]

By now it should be well-known that Pope Francis has revised the Catholic Catechism to say that capital punishment is inadmissible. What do you think about the relationship between Christianity and capital punishment? I want to hear from all Christians, and I also want to give Catholics a place to argue. The topic is two-fold: capital punishment in general, and also specifically within the Catholic Church.

Some relevant links:

• Pope Francis Changes Catechism... (NCR)
• History of Capital Punishment in Catholicism (Stack Exchange)
• Capital Punishment and Christianity (BBC)
• Arguments for and against (Public Discourse)
• By Man Shall His Blood Be Shed: A Catholic Defense of Capital Punishment (book)
• Capital Punishment and Roman Catholic Moral Tradition (book)
• Video interview on capital punishment with Catholic philosopher, Edward Feser (Daily Wire)

 

[dreadnought]

By now it should be well-known that Pope Francis has revised the Catholic Catechism to say that capital punishment is inadmissible. What do you think about the relationship between Christianity and capital punishment? I want to hear from all Christians, and I also want to give Catholics a place to argue. The topic is two-fold: capital punishment in general, and also specifically within the Catholic Church.

Some relevant links:

• Pope Francis Changes Catechism... (NCR)
• History of Capital Punishment in Catholicism (Stack Exchange)
• Capital Punishment and Christianity (BBC)
• Arguments for and against (Public Discourse)
• By Man Shall His Blood Be Shed: A Catholic Defense of Capital Punishment (book)
• Capital Punishment and Roman Catholic Moral Tradition (book)
• Video interview on capital punishment with Catholic philosopher, Edward Feser (Daily Wire)

I've heard too many stories of people who were executed and then found to be innocent.

 

[zippy2006]

I disagree with Pope Francis' decision and I think capital punishment is compatible with Christianity. Here are three quick reasons I disagree:

1. Common sense. Certain horrendous crimes are deserving of death. Maybe we just can't see that any more. I am not of the mind that our society is some elevated pinnacle of moral and social civilization that has transcended millenia of wisdom on questions like these.
2. Scripture and tradition. Scripture explicitly endorses the death penalty multiple times. Catholic tradition is unanimous on the question (the only argument to be had is whether it is a Tradition or a tradition).
3. Unity. I can't imagine a better way to more severely rupture an already-hurting, factious, and polemical Church.

(My stance is against the idea that capital punishment is, in principle, morally impermissible. That idea has never been endorsed by the Church, but it seems that Francis is moving in that direction if he hasn't already endorsed it.)

 

[zippy2006]

I've heard too many stories of people who were executed and then found to be innocent.

I am going to try to explain why this thread isn't about purely practical considerations.

Mistakes are made, but this thread is about capital punishment, not mistakes and accidents. Merriam-Webster defines capital punishment as, "Punishment by death : the practice of killing people as punishment for serious crimes." That's what we're talking about, not the accuracy and efficacy of a legal system in some particular country.

If I asked whether bananas are good for monkeys, you would never accept the answer, "Rotten bananas are bad for monkeys!" The question asks about (good, normal) bananas. Similarly, the topic here is capital punishment, not unintended mistakes and accidents.

If I accepted your answer then I would also have to accept the fact that your answer might completely change in some other legal system where the mistakes were not made. I want deeper reasons than that, reasons that don't change so easily.

 

[HTacianas]

I didn't answer but only because I personally have no opinion on the death penalty. It is a punishment that is available but if it were abolished I wouldn't care.

The Orthodox Church in America came out strongly against it in the late 1980s.

But to those who are against it, be careful what you wish for. The sight of a man being executed pales in comparison to the sight of one dying of old age on the geriatric ward of a prison hospital. We often hear of abuse and neglect of the elderly in nursing homes. Imagine what it's like, after spending 50 or 60 or 70 years in prison after all your family and friends have either died or forgotten about you and you're being "cared for" by a group of prison trustees.

But then there are some who want to see murderers suffer for their crimes.

 

[Hank77]

Christianity says we shouldn't be killing innocent people. Moses' Law says that there must be two or three eye witnesses to the crime and that the witnesses cannot be family members or others that would be biased.
It's just safer not to kill anyone but keep them safely under lock and key. There have been too many mistakes made already.

 

[Hank77]

But then there are some who want to see murderers suffer for their crimes.

You mean put them to death so that they can spend eternity in hell?

 

[A71]

Hang 'em high

 

[HTacianas]

You mean put them to death so that they can spend eternity in hell?

Actually I meant that if you're determined to see someone punished for their crimes sentence them to life in prison. The end is almost too horrible to imagine.

 

[dqhall]

Your answer doesn't really address the question of compatibility with Christianity. Basically you are saying, "Capital cases involve mistakes, therefore we shouldn't have them." But what does that have to do with Christianity?

This thread has a broad scope, but it is about Christianity. I'm not asking about personal opinions on the death penalty, I am asking how you view it in relation to Christianity.

If you wrongfully put someone to death who did not deserve the death penalty, should you be put to death?

 

[dreadnought]

Your answer doesn't really address the question of compatibility with Christianity. Basically you are saying, "Capital cases involve mistakes, therefore we shouldn't have them." But what does that have to do with Christianity?

This thread has a broad scope, but it is about Christianity. I'm not asking about personal opinions on the death penalty, I am asking how you view it in relation to Christianity.

What does that have to do with Christianity? My goodness. If doing the right thing has nothing to do with Christianity, of what value is Christianity?

Christianity is ALL ABOUT doing the right things. Have you been reading the wrong books or listening to the wrong people?

 

[A71]

If you wrongfully put someone to death who did not deserve the death penalty, should you be put to death?

Deuteronomy 19
15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the Lord, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.20 And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

 

[Thedictator]

I've heard too many stories of people who were executed and then found to be innocent.

Like who? Please give an example?

 

[dreadnought]

Like who? Please give an example?

Bill Spivvens.

 

[Thedictator]

Christianity says we shouldn't be killing innocent people. Moses' Law says that there must be two or three eye witnesses to the crime and that the witnesses cannot be family members or others that would be biased.
It's just safer not to kill anyone but keep them safely under lock and key. There have been too many mistakes made already.

Please tell me how it is safer when a murderer get life, and then goes and kills other inmates who are not murderers, or escapes and goes on a killing spree. That happened in the Dallas Metroplex years ago 5 people who were convicted of murder escaped and people lost their life because of it. Oh but we don't care innocent people do we, we only care about the guilty because it makes us feel better because were so civilized.

Please tell how it make our society safer?

 

[Thedictator]

Bill Spivvens.

Just who is he? what is he case?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

By now it should be well-known that Pope Francis has revised the Catholic Catechism to say that capital punishment is inadmissible. What do you think about the relationship between Christianity and capital punishment? I want to hear from all Christians, and I also want to give Catholics a place to argue. The topic is two-fold: capital punishment in general, and also specifically within the Catholic Church.

Some relevant links:

• Pope Francis Changes Catechism... (NCR)
• History of Capital Punishment in Catholicism (Stack Exchange)
• Capital Punishment and Christianity (BBC)
• Arguments for and against (Public Discourse)
• By Man Shall His Blood Be Shed: A Catholic Defense of Capital Punishment (book)
• Capital Punishment and Roman Catholic Moral Tradition (book)
• Video interview on capital punishment with Catholic philosopher, Edward Feser (Daily Wire)

Capital punishment is compatible with Christianity so I answered "yes". But deciding to no longer indulge in capital punishment is ALSO compatible with Christianity.

Capital punishment can serve to focus the mind of the convicted and bring them to consider eternity. This might be a good thing.

But life imprisonment gives more time for the convicted to consider eternity. That might be a good thing.

Capital punishment deprives an innocent prisoner of the chance to prove his innocence later down the road. But the presence of capital punishment motivates many to research the capital cases and figure out, with greater urgency, who was wrongly convicted.

Given these thoughts I trust you'll pardon me for not getting greatly worked up over this issue.

 

[Thedictator]

Deuteronomy 19
15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the Lord, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.20 And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

We are not under The Old Law, this has nothing to with being Christian.

 

[Thedictator]

If you wrongfully put someone to death who did not deserve the death penalty, should you be put to death?

Yes, if you are the one responsible for the false testimony.

 

[dreadnought]

Just who is he? what is he case?

When I asked my dad who he was talking about, and he didn't want me to know, he'd say, "Bill Spivvens."