Christianity and Abortion Don't Mix

[kiwimac]

What a crock. You are conflating my comments on late term abortions being for the sake of the woman's health with pre-20 week abortions. As for the 'secular mindset' how on earth can you even judge me, you haven't been here long enough to know.

 

[Lively Stone]

Secularism is like a flagman wearing a fluorescent vest. It can be seen a mile away.

 

[Lively Stone]

I am pretty sure mt case is now made. Thank you.

 

[steadfastchristian]

Women who have had abortions suffer, sometimes silently their whole lives! Their souls are damaged by the guilt!

Only Jesus can cover and heal it, yet women everywhere who never find Christ live with the scars of having ended the lives within them. It is universal.

Excellent but sad point. Research shows that women who have an abortion(s) are more likely to have complications with their next child. The risk of breast and uterine cancer are also increased.
The points you brought up (psychological affects) are probably the most troubling for the woman having the abortion. The negative effects from abortion are always with the woman the rest of their lives. That is why we must love them and help out wherever possible. Cassidy is correct that helping the woman can help prevent the abortion.

 

[steadfastchristian]

What a crock. You are conflating my comments on late term abortions being for the sake of the woman's health with pre-20 week abortions. As for the 'secular mindset' how on earth can you even judge me, you haven't been here long enough to know.

Kiwimac, You have brought up a good point that I and other new members don't really know you and need to see the whole picture to truly understand your point of view. You are entitled to your opinion but so are the rest of us. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean we're judging you. God loves you the same as anyone else. I'm sure I could learn a lot from you that would help me in my faith. Unfortunately, we are miles apart regarding abortion. You are not the first Christian I've met that agrees with your philosophy and you won't be the last. I have friends that are atheist and pro-abortion. Yes we get into arguments but usually we don't lose our friendship over it. I hope we can continue to peacefully debate this important subject without strife.

 

[Cassidy]

The command is 'You shall not Murder', the KJV English translation is quite wrong on that one.

It's the same thing...to kill is murder and to murder is to kill.

Cassidy, The woman does not own the unborn baby, God does. Don't you see that point? Also, the unborn baby is not personal property, it is a living human being with equal rights to the mother. Finally, the unborn baby has no voice to defend themselves placing them at an extreme disadvantage. While the mom at least has a voice and is protected by the law.

If you protect the women you in turn protecting the unborn for it is the women who carry the unborn...don't you see that point?

The reason why I don't have abortions is because I'm a christian and as a christian I know that it is wrong to do so, not only that but I've also been given a hope that I didn't have before. Therefore my children are safe because someone preached the gospel and brought me to Christ. <--- this is the ONLY answer...nothing else will suffice. Jesus is the answer or do you not believe this?

 

[steadfastchristian]

It's the same thing...to kill is murder and to murder is to kill.



If you protect the women you in turn protecting the unborn for it is the women who carry the unborn...don't you see that point?

The reason why I don't have abortions is because I'm a christian and as a christian I know that it is wrong to do so, not only that but I've also been given a hope that I didn't have before. Therefore my children are safe because someone preached the gospel and brought me to Christ. <--- this is the ONLY answer...nothing else will suffice. Jesus is the answer or do you not believe this?

Cassidy, I believe that Jesus is the only answer to all our problems in life. I also believe that Christ has given each one of us the responsibility to ensure that everyone, especially those who are neglected by society, are treated with respect. There are many ways to accomplish this goal with prayer being the number one priority. Protecting the mother can be helpful if it ensures the abortion doesn't take place. However, protecting the mother's right to choose by creating laws that allow her to abort her baby only strips the legal rights away from the unborn child. Do you believe this?

You have a powerful message that will help many women say no to abortion, However, your wish to keep abortion legal to save lives is contrary to common sense and more importantly, to Holy Scripture. Even Christian women are getting abortions because the law of the land says it's ok. In this case it is not ok because the law supporting abortion is contrary to the laws that protect the rest of us from murder and more importantly, it is violating God's commandments. This is especially disturbing in my country (US) because we are supposed to be a Christian nation.

 

[xxsilverkisses]

How can a Christian justify voting for a pro-abortion candidate? Polls show that Christians vote this way on a regular basis. After all, aren't we all held accountable for the choices we make in life?

That depends on the polls you are looking at.

Coming from someone who has an odd view when it comes to abortion: We all have our reasons for voting for so-and-so candidate; for me, if the woman can't keep her pants up and the man can't wear a condomn, the female should have to keep the baby. If she's raped, however, she should have the right to make the choice.

Maybe the candidate has most of the same political beliefs they do? Aside from abortion?

Yes, we are held accountable; but God is forgiving and I doubt God cares who we vote for as our leaders.

 

[Cassidy]

Cassidy, I believe that Jesus is the only answer to all our problems in life.

Then this should be the end of it should it not? If Christ is the answer to everything then what in the world do we think we're doing by trying to take aways people's free will.

I also believe that Christ has given each one of us the responsibility to ensure that everyone, especially those who are neglected by society, are treated with respect. There are many ways to accomplish this goal with prayer being the number one priority. Protecting the mother can be helpful if it ensures the abortion doesn't take place.

It's not just about protecting the mother....it's about changing lives. Our only responsibility on this earth is to preach the gospel, we are not meant to do Jesus' job here in saving people. We bring them to Christ and HE does the saving. And it will be perfect with no holes in it. Man's laws are full of flaws.

However, protecting the mother's right to choose by creating laws that allow her to abort her baby only strips the legal rights away from the unborn child. Do you believe this?

It can...but so can taking mother's choices away, it not only strips the legal rights of unborn children but also ALL MOTHERS...even those who have no desire to abort will be affected by this.

You have a powerful message that will help many women say no to abortion, However, your wish to keep abortion legal to save lives is contrary to common sense and more importantly, to Holy Scripture.

It's no contrary to common sense and holy scripture at all, you only say that because you fail to see the ramifications of such a thing in a society like ours. More education will enlighten you to women's plight and the plight of their children also. My Grandmother is dead because her choices were taken away...that's THREE LIVES. I wonder what would have happened if she was witnessed to and brought to Christ?

Even Christian women are getting abortions because the law of the land says it's ok.

Then they're not really Christian.

In this case it is not ok because the law supporting abortion is contrary to the laws that protect the rest of us from murder and more importantly,

Actually no they don't for murder still occurs. What the laws do is to change the consequences.

it is violating God's commandments.

Actually no it's not. God never said for us to make laws to ensure people follow the commandments...he simply said to follow them and the only way one can follow them is through Christ...end of story!

This is especially disturbing in my country (US) because we are supposed to be a Christian nation.

I can find a great many things disturbing coming from your country...that is the culture that degrades women and objectifies them and other countries following suit. Which in turn causes more suffering for women and in turn their children....more rapes, violence, mistreatment and inequity against women, and women are the ones left holding the babies in a country that does nothing to change it! Taking away a women's right to autonomy over their bodies just enforces all this and does nothing to help them or their children.

The only answer is Christ....that's it. To suggest otherwise, to me, is very disturbing!

 

[steadfastchristian]

Cassidy, If we followed your advice and stripped all laws from the books we would have anarchy. Law and order is the only thing that keeps a society civil.
On one hand, you have the wonderful message of salvation in Christ, but then you lose credibility with your argument towards abandoning civil authority. If you didn't notice, most of our laws in society reflect that of the commandments. Scripture tells us to obey legitimate authority as long as it is consistent with God&#8217;s commandments:

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves &#8230; .
(Romans 13:1,2 NIV)

On the other side of the coin:

Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!&#8221; (Acts 5:29 NIV)

Therefore, we are required to obey legitimate authority as long as it is not contrary to God&#8217;s Word. As Christians, God is our only true authority.

Abortion is clearly not consistent with God&#8217;s commandments.

 

[steadfastchristian]

That depends on the polls you are looking at.

Coming from someone who has an odd view when it comes to abortion: We all have our reasons for voting for so-and-so candidate; for me, if the woman can't keep her pants up and the man can't wear a condomn, the female should have to keep the baby. If she's raped, however, she should have the right to make the choice.

Maybe the candidate has most of the same political beliefs they do? Aside from abortion?

Yes, we are held accountable; but God is forgiving and I doubt God cares who we vote for as our leaders.

Your view on abortion doesn&#8217;t seem so &#8220;odd&#8221; to me. Though I don&#8217;t completely agree with your view, you are exercising common sense.
However, we are miles apart on your philosophy towards voting. God is definitely merciful but that doesn't mean the decisions we make won't have consequences. In the case of abortion, the consequences have been catastrophic.

 

[Cassidy]

Cassidy, If we followed your advice and stripped all laws from the books we would have anarchy. Law and order is the only thing that keeps a society civil.
On one hand, you have the wonderful message of salvation in Christ, but then you lose credibility with your argument towards abandoning civil authority. If you didn't notice, most of our laws in society reflect that of the commandments. Scripture tells us to obey legitimate authority as long as it is consistent with God’s commandments:

We are talking about abortion.

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves … .

(Romans 13:1,2 NIV)

On the other side of the coin:

Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!” (Acts 5:29 NIV)

Therefore, we are required to obey legitimate authority as long as it is not contrary to God’s Word. As Christians, God is our only true authority.

Abortion is clearly not consistent with God’s commandments.

Then don't have an abortion - simple!

And you're focusing on the wrong people....unsaved people can't follow the commandments!

The law that would give fetus rights over the mother takes away ALL mother's free will, also goes against God.

Next you'll have pregnant women being thrown in prisons for eating a piece of ham or wanting to have a home birth in the name of 'fetus rights'! Don't you get that?

Your daughters and your daughter's daughters will have to live in a world where everything they do with their bodies while pregnant will be questioned....if they choose not to have a test done, or an ultra sound they could be charged with putting a fetus' life in danger.

If they eat some store bought salad, or some chicken or soft serve icecream, they will be questioned.

If they decide not to have the diabetes test, or get on a carousel or a motorbike, or a horse while pregnant...they will be questioned!

If they smoke or are near someone who smokes, they will be questioned.

If they choose to have a natural birth instead of a c-section or to have drugs, or not have drugs during labour, they'll be questioned.

If they choose to sit, stand, squat, bend, liedown during labour...they'll be questioned in the name of FETUS RIGHTS!!!!!! Why? Because the presedence will be set....they will not have rights over their own bodies because the law says so. Obstretrics will be a thriving business.

And I won't do that to women....I WON'T DO IT! If you want to do that...that's fine, but I won't.

NOt only that, but as I said the message will be sent to society that it's true, women really don't have full autonomy over their bodies and thus enforce the notion that women are objects.....AND THIS IS WRONG!!!!

Rape is wrong! Abuse is wrong. inappropriate contentography is wrong....and you wish to make such things worse??? And as long as such things are in this world there will be a need for abortion....as much as I hate it, I have compassion enough to know to not victimise the victims anymore than they are....but rather to give them the true answer in Christ.

Anything less will go against God.

But I wouldn't expect you to understand any of that!

 

[Mr_Sun]

pro-life! I do think its sick to see people say its okay. If its going to seriously endanger the health of the mother then yes. But if its just going to be something like they cant afford to raise a baby there is always adoption even though that is a hard road to go down...

 

[steadfastchristian]

Cassidy, if you were talking about your own body I can see your point. However, the unborn baby is a unique individual with the same God given rights you have.
Does the mom have the right to kill her child after it is born? I think not. Why then do you persist that it is ok to take the child&#8217;s life as long as it is inside the womb? The womb should be a place of security for the unborn baby, not a slaughtering chamber.

As a Christian, I can&#8217;t see how you are justifying (rationalizing) the legalization of abortion, all in the name of women&#8217;s rights at the expense of the rights of the unborn child?
Abortion should not be an option in any society let alone a civilized one. Your suggestions to &#8220;help the mom, help the child&#8221; will definitely be needed to fill the vacuum when abortion is no longer an option. For the sake of the unborn, I pray this will happen soon.

 

[kiwimac]

A foetus has the potential to be a unique individual. It is not, however, one until it is no longer dependent on the mother's body for it's own survival.

 

[steadfastchristian]

A foetus has the potential to be a unique individual. It is not, however, one until it is no longer dependent on the mother's body for it's own survival.

Kiwimac, Do you really understand what you are saying? Are you prepared to take those words with you when you have to give a full account to our Lord?
The baby continues to rely on the mother&#8217;s body (breast milk) after it is born. In this case, do you also regard the baby as not yet a unique individual? Again your play on semantics is not consistent with the truth.

 

[kiwimac]

Yes, I am prepared to stand before God on this. What will you have to say when God asks why you tried to take away safe, legal abortions and force some women to take matters into their own hands?

 

[Cassidy]

Cassidy, if you were talking about your own body I can see your point. However, the unborn baby is a unique individual with the same God given rights you have.

And I agree.

Does the mom have the right to kill her child after it is born? I think not. Why then do you persist that it is ok to take the child’s life as long as it is inside the womb?

I DON'T!!! Have you not been reading? At no point have I said that it's ok to take the child's life....go back and read before you address me again. I will not tolerate you misrepresenting me.

The womb should be a place of security for the unborn baby, not a slaughtering chamber.

And I agree.

As a Christian, I can’t see how you are justifying (rationalizing) the legalization of abortion, all in the name of women’s rights at the expense of the rights of the unborn child?

As a Christian I don't understand why you believe that man's laws can do what Christ has already done.

Abortion should not be an option in any society let alone a civilized one. Your suggestions to “help the mom, help the child” will definitely be needed to fill the vacuum when abortion is no longer an option. For the sake of the unborn, I pray this will happen soon.

Then you simply misunderstand the ramifications of such a thing and you enforce the notion that women are no more than objects...thanks for that!

A foetus has the potential to be a unique individual. It is not, however, one until it is no longer dependent on the mother's body for it's own survival.

This is uneducated rubbish!!!!

Get out and get educated my friend, and stop with this drivel!

Have you even had a baby?

 

[kiwimac]

This is uneducated rubbish!!!!

Get out and get educated my friend, and stop with this drivel!

Have you even had a baby?

Mind your tone! I have three kids and my wife has had at least as many miscarriages.

 

[steadfastchristian]

Cassidy, You can&#8217;t say that abortion should be legal and then claim &#8220;&#8230;At no point have I said that it's ok to take the child's life....&#8221;. These two statements are contradictory to one another. Just to make sure I understand your view, do you think abortion should be legal?

A Woman is God's most beautiful creation and so is the unborn child. Both are equal in God's eyes and therefore they should both have equal rights in man's laws. Anything less is disobedience towards God. The legalization of abortion is completely contrary to Scripture.

It must have been extremely painful for you to hear about your grandmother's misfortune and for Kiwimac and his wife to have suffered the loss of their babies.
May God bless you both and my He heal your pain.

Just think of all the pain abortion causes to the mother, father, family, society, and especially the unborn child. This pain has got to stop. It is destroying the moral framework of our world.