Christian Scientists of the past

[Mike Lane]

What about Christian scientists of the present? Like Francis Collins, who is a leading geneticist and science communicator?

His religion is treated differently to his science, his science is not influenced by his religion, when he's in his lab he never ever say's to himself 'magic must have caused that' or 'God must be the answer to that problem'.

 

[Mike Lane]

What about Christian scientists of the present? Like Francis Collins, who is a leading geneticist and science communicator?

Francis Collins must be an easily influenced American.

 

[AV1611VET]

Are you on good terms with the poster known as 'dad' on these forums? Don't you often agree with him?

Affirmative to both.

 

[Strathos]

Affirmative to both.

Well I asked him once, and he said he doesn't go to church.

 

[KWCrazy]

Assuming a rational universe with consistant laws of nature, does not require the belief in a bronze age god.

Fortunately, we do not have a bronze age God. We have an eternal God who was, who is and who shall remain.

Please refrain from blasphemy in the future. It only makes you look ridiculous, and demonstrates how much you really do not understand.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Fortunately, we do not have a bronze age God. We have an eternal God who was, who is and who shall remain.

Assuming a rational universe with consistant laws of nature, does not require the belief in any gods.

Please refrain from blasphemy in the future. It only makes you look ridiculous, and demonstrates how much you really do not understand.

How is it blasphemous?
The religion factually originated in the bronze age. By all accounts, that makes it a bronze age religion.

Are facts blasphemous?

 

[AV1611VET]

Well I asked him once, and he said he doesn't go to church.

Who? dad or Francis Collins?

 

[AV1611VET]

The religion factually originated in the bronze age. By all accounts, that makes it a bronze age religion.

Which came first? God or bronze?

 

[KWCrazy]

Assuming a rational universe with consistant laws of nature, does not require the belief in any gods.

By what magical process did this universe come about?
By what magical process did life come about?
You can't answer these questions because science cannot account for the origination of anything. Origination is, in fact, logically impossible. Yet, we are here. Science tells us that everything evolved from one cell billions of years ago, and yet despite extreme attempts to force the evolution of a mere fruit fly the only logical conclusion is that it doesn't happen.

How is it blasphemous?

You are showing irreverence to God.
You are allowed to doubt, but it is against the rules to talk disparaging against God on this website.

The religion factually originated in the bronze age.

Citation needed, because that statement is a lie.
God's relationship with man began when man began. In fact, some of the earliest known records reference God. God walked and spoke with Adam. Atheism didn't exist before the 5th century BC. It began in ancient Greece.

Are facts blasphemous?

You don't have facts, you have claims based on an erroneous view of history. Man did not create God, God created man. Wise men still seek Him and still find Him. God has never been very far from man. It is man who has separated himself from God.

 

[VirOptimus]

By what magical process did this universe come about?
By what magical process did life come about?

Its the religious who belive in magic, atheists tend not to (but Im sure there are exceptions).

Science on the other hand is trying to find the scientic answers on both the beginning of the universe and abiogenesis.

Religion tend to have magical answers to theese questions however.

You can't answer these questions because science cannot account for the origination of anything. Origination is, in fact, logically impossible. Yet, we are here. Science tells us that everything evolved from one cell billions of years ago, and yet despite extreme attempts to force the evolution of a mere fruit fly the only logical conclusion is that it doesn't happen.

Its not logically impossible. Logic does in fact not work that way. Just because you dont understand does not make it "logically impossible".

You are showing irreverence to God.
You are allowed to doubt, but it is against the rules to talk disparaging against God on this website.

Citation needed, because that statement is a lie.
God's relationship with man began when man began. In fact, some of the earliest known records reference God. God walked and spoke with Adam. Atheism didn't exist before the 5th century BC. It began in ancient Greece.

You don't have facts, you have claims based on an erroneous view of history. Man did not create God, God created man. Wise men still seek Him and still find Him. God has never been very far from man. It is man who has separated himself from God.

If you want to preach Im sure there are other places on this very forum you can do that. This, however, is the science part where science is supposed to be debated.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

By what magical process did this universe come about?

I don't know, but why would it be "magical"?

By what magical process did life come about?

I don't know, but why would it be "magical"?

You can't answer these questions because science cannot account for the origination of anything.

lol.
That doesn't even deserve another response.

Origination is, in fact, logically impossible.

Really? Then it should be no problem for you to explain the "logic" which leads to that conclusion.

Yet, we are here. Science tells us that everything evolved from one cell billions of years ago, and yet despite extreme attempts to force the evolution of a mere fruit fly the only logical conclusion is that it doesn't happen.

Ignorance on how evolution works, or strawmanning it, is not an argument against it.

You are showing irreverence to God.

What does that mean?

You are allowed to doubt, but it is against the rules to talk disparaging against God on this website.

I don't feel like I did that.

Citation needed, because that statement is a lie.

No, it's not.

The bronze age stretches from around 3300 BC till about 1000 BC.
Abrahamic religion (Judaism, specifically) was born during that period.

God's relationship with man began when man began

That's what the religion itself says. I'm talking about the actual evidence of reality.

In fact, some of the earliest known records reference God.

The oldest written human records date to a time long before abrahamic religion existed. Any gods they mention, is not the god of abraham. That only came much later.

God walked and spoke with Adam.

That's again the religion, not the evidence of reality.

Atheism didn't exist before the 5th century BC. It began in ancient Greece.

If you like to think so. I don't see how it's relevant.

You don't have facts, you have claims based on an erroneous view of history.

You confuse religious beliefs with real-world evidence history.
It's a fact that abrahamic religion was born during the bronze age.

Man did not create God, God created man. Wise men still seek Him and still find Him. God has never been very far from man. It is man who has separated himself from God.

Again talking about the claims of the religion itself.

 

[AV1611VET]

Its the religious who belive in magic, atheists tend not to (but Im sure there are exceptions).

God doesn't do magic.

Exodus 8:18 And the magicians did so with their enchantments to bring forth lice, but they could not: so there were lice upon man, and upon beast.
Exodus 8:19 Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

 

[Radrook]

God doesn't do magic.

Exodus 8:18 And the magicians did so with their enchantments to bring forth lice, but they could not: so there were lice upon man, and upon beast.
Exodus 8:19 Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

Funny how they refuse to call their godless abiogenesis, billion happy improbable accidents which eventually turns fish into people via godless evolution magic isn't it?

 

[AV1611VET]

Funny how they refuse to call their godless abiogenesis, billion happy improbable accidents which eventually turns fish into people via godless evolution magic isn't it?

Yup.

They throw that word around like it means something.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Funny how they refuse to call their godless abiogenesis, billion happy improbable accidents which eventually turns fish into people via godless evolution magic isn't it?

Magic is the suspension or violation of natural law.
Off course, I mean "the real thing". Not Penn en Teller style magic.

Ignoring the rather silly strawmen in your statement (again), how do natural processes like biological evolution, suspend or violate natural law?

Which natural law specifically is suspended or violated by biological evolution?

Please explain.... inquiring minds want to know.

 

[KWCrazy]

Its the religious who belive in magic, atheists tend not to (but Im sure there are exceptions).
Science on the other hand is trying to find the scientic answers on both the beginning of the universe and abiogenesis.

I'm trying to find the scientific explanation for a man walking on water and calming a storm.
The fact is, and I repeat, science cannot account for origination.
Saying that they are looking for an answer does not change the fact that science cannot account for origination.
We know that God created the world and all living things.
You say, no, it wasn't God, but you have no other answers that fit with natural law. So you have nothing.

Its not logically impossible. Logic does in fact not work that way. Just because you dont understand does not make it "logically impossible".

I DON'T UNDERSTAND?
1. Matter/energy cannot be created.
2. Matter is in a constant state of increasing entropy so it's not eternal.
3. In the absence of anything, nothing will ever happen. Never.
There are NO scientifically valid theories of origination. String theory, quantum theory; all can be debunked with a 7th grade text book.
Logic accepts absolutes when they exist.
Logic understands that you can travel east around the earth forever and never be heading west.
Logic understands that things cannot auto-create themselves.

This, however, is the science part where science is supposed to be debated.

It's a creation/evolution debate. Please tell me the science required for God to create the world in six days. Please tell me how God formed man from the dust of the earth. There is nothing scientific about a supernatural creation. The question is whether our origination was natural or supernatural. It it was supernatural, it is illogical to expect to find a natural solution.

 

[AV1611VET]

Magic is the suspension or violation of natural law.

No, it isn't.

Off course, I mean "the real thing".

Then let's use the 'real thing.'

Real magic [allegedly] is the use of hidden ... not suspended ... natural forces; and is the Latin word for "sorcery."

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The fact is, and I repeat, science cannot account for origination

You can repeat it all you like.
How about some explanation for why you think that is the case?

3. In the absence of anything, nothing will ever happen. Never.

1. How do you know?
2. Who says there ever was an "absence of anything"?

There are NO scientifically valid theories of origination. String theory, quantum theory; all can be debunked with a 7th grade text book.

Without quantum theory, you wouldn't even be able to post this nonsense on the interwebs using whatever device you are using.

Logic understands that things cannot auto-create themselves

Logic, much like "common sense", is only helpfull insofar as your knowledge allows it to be.

There was a time where it was "logical" that the sun orbitted the earth. After all, the earth feels rather stationary while we can literally see the sun "come up" at one side, move across the sky and "set" at the other side.

There was a time where it was "logical" that time was a constant.
Etc.

In short: you do not know what is "logical", in advance. You don't know that which is still unknown.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No, it isn't.

Yes, it is.

Then let's use the 'real thing.'

Real magic [allegedly] is the use of hidden ... not suspended ... natural forces; and is the Latin word for "sorcery."

If they are "hidden", how would anyone know about it?
This would make it indistinguishable from exactly what I said: the suspension or violation of natural law.

 

[AV1611VET]

In short: you do not know what is "logical", in advance.

Do you know what is "theological"?