Christian Right And Republican Politics

[redleghunter]

I think that the religious right has erased liberals' respect for their particular religious expressions or denominations, but most of us still have faith. Our faith may be more spiritual than religious. It may be more adventurous than traditional.

We believe in Matthew 7:15-16: 15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?"

Their support of Trump, even to the point of saying that "God has ordained him," goes against everything we know about God's goodness. The religious right is generally very rules-driven, and they are elevating someone who is pretty much the poster child for the seven deadly sins. It has pretty much robbed us of any faith we have in them.

I am grateful for the good things evangelical churches do in our community--even if they try to preach along with the help. I am angry at their efforts to end government programs that assist the needy.

We tried helping the poor without government programs, labor unions, etc. for 5,000 years----and we saw where that got us. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.

Evangelicals give far more than their liberal counterparts and adopt children at a higher rate.

 

[Fantine]

Evangelicals give far more than their liberal counterparts and adopt children at a higher rate.

For that they can be commended. Do you think.that what worked (If you can call it that with wars and slavery) in a society with a million people can work adequately with 7 billion?
If everyone tithed would it equal what is collected in taxes? How many contributions never get past the church?
Pope Francis said that both government and private funds are needed to achieve social justice, and I agree.

 

[redleghunter]

For that they can be commended. Do you think.that what worked (If you can call it that with wars and slavery) in a society with a million people can work adequately with 7 billion?
If everyone tithed would it equal what is collected in taxes? How many contributions never get past the church?
Pope Francis said that both government and private funds are needed to achieve social justice, and I agree.

Just think of all those hospitals Christians built and ran over the centuries.

 

[redleghunter]

If everyone tithed would it equal what is collected in taxes?

What’s interesting about tithing is that was to keep the Israelite theocratic government afloat and pay for the required temple sacrifices. What remains and is affirmed in the NT is the free will offerings. Paul goes into some detail on this in 2 Corinthians chapters 8 and 9.

Paying our taxes would be what Jesus told us to render to Caesar also confirmed by Paul in Romans 13.

So if government, especially one of the people, want the tax money to go to a social safety net, then that is truly the business of the people.

 

[Fantine]

Just think of all those hospitals Christians built and ran over the centuries.

There are still Christian hospitals supported by insurance and taxes who would have to shut their doors without them. One hospital, St. Vincent in New York City, did have to close its doors because of too many uninsured.

 

[bekkilyn]

So if government, especially one of the people, want the tax money to go to a social safety net, then that is truly the business of the people.

Here's the thing. Our particular form of government is composed of the people, who elect representatives to take care of their interests and the interests of the country. Christians, even if only nominally, compose a large number of these "we the people" who make up our government, and yet....and this is what really burns me up on some occasions and completely baffles me on others...it is primarily CHRISTIANS who are OPPOSED to social safety nets, conserving our environment (that earth that God made us stewards of), and overall not standing up for social justice, and all sorts of other things that a decent, moral society should provide for its people.

Yes, it's nice that churches support food pantries (almost accidentally typed "panties" here), and some missions and the like, but it's nowhere near enough. Our government system is the only network widespread enough to be able to put a dent in some of these issues that are the most widespread all throughout our country.

People who are followers of the WAY of Jesus Christ need to be supporting policies that actually help the most needy rather than doing everything they can to act in opposition to everything good, and supporting policies that oppress and severely harm the weakest of our citizenry. We are supposed to be ambassadors of God's Kingdom and show by our actions what God's Kingdom is like, but the impression that "Christians" in general are giving to the world is very anti-Christ, and I find myself regularly gobsmacked by it all, even though I guess it's been going on practically all my life, so I shouldn't really be surprised by any of it anymore.

 

[redleghunter]

Yes, it's nice that churches support food pantries (almost accidentally typed "panties" here), and some missions and the like, but it's nowhere near enough. Our government system is the only network widespread enough to be able to put a dent in some of these issues that are the most widespread all throughout our country.

Churches are doing more than food pantries and collecting clothes. If this is what your church is only doing with your donations then surely I would complain.

 

[hedrick]

Evangelicals give far more than their liberal counterparts and adopt children at a higher rate.

Please note that the studies showing this are based on IRS records. Money given to churches count as charity.

 

[bekkilyn]

Churches are doing more than food pantries and collecting clothes. If this is what your church is only doing with your donations then surely I would complain.

I wondering what you were going to come up with to completely miss the point.

 

[redleghunter]

Please note that the studies showing this are based on IRS records. Money given to churches count as charity.

Why does that matter?

 

[redleghunter]

I wondering what you were going to come up with to completely miss the point.

Hit the point head on. People should examine exactly what their church ministries involve.

 

[hedrick]

Why does that matter?

Because it includes costs of maintaining churches. I contribute to that myself, and consider it worthwhile. But you wouldn’t expect non Christians to do that. That means if you compare groups with different fractions of Christians the nature of their contributions is different. In terms of things that directly help people, as alternative to government programs, the comparisons don’t tell you which group is contributing more.

When you control for religious participation, by the way, you find that the difference is more between Christians and non Christians than conservatives and liberals. (Actually it may be religious and non-religious.) https://www.democraticaudit.com/201...ot-because-they-oppose-income-redistribution/

 

[Speedwell]

Because it includes costs of maintaining churches. I contribute to that myself, and consider it worthwhile. But you wouldn’t expect non Christians to do that. That means if you compare groups with different fractions of Christians the nature of their contributions is different. In terms of things that directly help people, as alternative to government programs, the comparisons don’t tell you which group is contributing more.

When you control for religious participation, by the way, you find that the difference is more between Christians and non Christians than conservatives and liberals. https://www.democraticaudit.com/201...ot-because-they-oppose-income-redistribution/

But Conservatives don't tend to think of Liberals as Christians.

 

[bekkilyn]

Hit the point head on. People should examine exactly what their church ministries involve.

Now I'm not sure whether you're missing the point yet again, or if you are intentionally deflecting from it.

 

[redleghunter]

Because it includes costs of maintaining churches. I contribute to that myself, and consider it worthwhile. But you wouldn’t expect non Christians to do that. That means if you compare groups with different fractions of Christians the nature of their contributions is different. In terms of things that directly help people, as alternative to government programs, the comparisons don’t tell you which group is contributing more.

When you control for religious participation, by the way, you find that the difference is more between Christians and non Christians than conservatives and liberals. (Actually it may be religious and non-religious.) https://www.democraticaudit.com/201...ot-because-they-oppose-income-redistribution/

Your church does not break down how money is distributed? Does not your church have options for you to donate your money to a specific ministry?

My church it is the elders who keep the lights on and pays the rent and most salaries.

 

[redleghunter]

Now I'm not sure whether you're missing the point yet again, or if you are intentionally deflecting from it.

One should examine the books of their church to see what they are actually spending the free will offerings on.

 

[redleghunter]

I think there's a general problem with liberals and religion, and that given that liberals aren't interested, it's no surprise that Christianity tends to be conservative.

Interesting observation

 

[bekkilyn]

One should examine the books of their church to see what they are actually spending the free will offerings on.

This response is about as far away from my point as it could possibly get. Perhaps you have my post confused with someone else's post because mine had nothing to do with church offerings and how they are spent.

 

[redleghunter]

We can see how well cities which have been run by liberal governments do in handling the money given to them by the local taxes, state taxes and federal lump sum monies. They don’t do a good job. People are out on the streets with feces on sidewalks, used needles and the liberal solution is to hand out more needles and have facilities where they can shoot up.

And the tent cities just grow and more money is thrown at failed programs.

Is the solution to throw more money at failure or find different ways to spend the money and get the people off the streets? Does not seem the liberal solution is working. All these cities seem to do is change certain words to not demean they people on the street and forbid high pressure hoses from removing fecal matter because it might remind some of the police using hoses in the 60s against protesters.

I’m all for having tax money going to get people who are addicted to drugs and alcohol and with need of psychiatric care off the streets and into facilities where they can actually overcome and become productive members of society.

The liberal solution is a “living wage” which will just be spent on more drugs and more living out on the streets.

 

[redleghunter]

This response is about as far away from my point as it could possibly get. Perhaps you have my post confused with someone else's post because mine had nothing to do with church offerings and how they are spent.

Well if your point that church donations build roads and community centers, no that’s not the purpose.

What you need to look at is how much the aggregate of churches in a community contribute to the overall city or county efforts to help homelessness, feeding, clothing, families in crisis et. al.

At our last quarterly church partners meeting, the treasurer showed that from our church alone $80K in services helped city programs or defrayed the cost of city programs. My church is very small and one of thousands in the county.

It is one reason local governments support tax exemption for churches even though my church chooses not to be tax exempt.

So our churches won’t build bridges and roads and large community buildings. But without their ministries to the people of the community, a lot would not get done.