Christian Polygamy

[SwordmanJr]

Excellent reply, Swordsman.

''The Lord didn't consider it gross to have commanded a surviving brother to take his dead brother's wife as his own'' ~ and significantly, professing Christians fail to see that Jesus sanctioned Levirate marriage in Matt 22.

If Jesus specifically allows something how can people who call themselves Christian object to it???


Folks, like it or not, it is time to set aside much of church teaching and to awaken to the Bible's actual teaching. Polygyny IS biblically permissible. READ the Bible and you will see that this statement is correct.

Actually, it's the man-made religion of westernized social christianity that teaches what is contrary to the Bible as if it were fact. My dad taught me to read the Bible for what it says, and because of him, I've long since walked away from the blinders of pop-christianity to actually live and breath the word of God. I be delivered, which is part of what inspired me to compose this song and perform it for recording!
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Ffourwindsangels%2Fassaulting-the-gates-of-hell

 

[SwordmanJr]

Being freed from the conventions of mere religion, more people begin to experience the freedom of which Jesus spoke. But, there are many who like the confines of religion. It helps to keep them in line, or so they think. For many, the show must go on. I even put a cathedral pipe organ into this one to give it that religious feel (and yes, that is a REAL cathedral pipe organ, not synthesized).
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Ffourwindsangels%2Fshow-must-go-on

 

[SwordmanJr]

I love encouraging folks to free themselves to read God's word for what it says by DARING them to believe what 1 John 2:27 says. Doing so is a spiritual adventure! [I composed this song with 1 John 2:27 in mind. Every instrument is real.]
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Ffourwindsangels%2Fspiritual-adventure

 

[Hank77]

I love encouraging folks to free themselves to read God's word for what it says by DARING them to believe what 1 John 2:27 says. Doing so is a spiritual adventure! [I composed this song with 1 John 2:27 in mind. Every instrument is real.]
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Ffourwindsangels%2Fspiritual-adventure

This one is definitely my favorite. You are very gifted.

 

[SwordmanJr]

This one is definitely my favorite. You are very gifted.

Thank you, my friend. I really enjoy giving music for others to enjoy and uplift them. I can't paint with a brush, but I can paint pictures with music.

 

[SwordmanJr]

~ and significantly, professing Christians fail to see that Jesus sanctioned Levirate marriage in Matt 22.

I guess I don't know what that one is. I recall my dad talking about that, but I never did get the gist of it since I wasn't really much into his discussions along this line back then. Can you explain it in a little more detail?

 

[HonestTruth]

You are mistaken. You are misquoted scripture.

God allowed a man to take his dead brother's wife. Why do you extrapolate that to mean any other woman as wife also?

When you read scripture compare it with other scripture portions to know what the mind of the Lord is.

~ cite specifically which scripture was ''misquoted''

~ nowhere is Levirate marriage law restricted to the widow of only ONE brother

~ under Mosaic law polygyny was allowed {examples shown above} - Levirate marriage does not mean one must leave his own wife/wives in order to do his late brother(s) a favor. No numerical limitation was put into the law and Jesus had every opportunity to change or eliminate the Mosaic law but he refused. Therefore, contrary to conventional Christian denominational teaching this part of the Mosaic law remains.

 

[HonestTruth]

I guess I don't know what that one is. I recall my dad talking about that, but I never did get the gist of it since I wasn't really much into his discussions along this line back then. Can you explain it in a little more detail?

From wiki:


The Sadducees (sedûqîm) were one of the three main Jewish political and religious movements in the years between c.150 BCE and 70 CE. (The other movements were the Essenes and the Pharisees.) They had a conservative outlook and accepted only the written Law of Moses.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadducees


They were very aristocratic and scholarly.



Sadducees confronted Jesus in Matthew 22:23 et seq. In essence what they asked was, is Levirate marriage permissible? This because they were now learning that there would be an after life thanks to the salvation that Jesus was bringing and they wanted to know if souls in the next life would be bound in marriage.

Jesus said that multiple marriages were inconsequential in the next life meaning that he knew they would continue to happen. He could readily have taken the opportunity to end Levirate marriage but did not. Interestingly that at the end of that chapter Jesus invokes the name of King David who was a polygynist.

 

[dayhiker]

Swardman ... enjoyed your music.

 

[HonestTruth]

"Spiritual Adventure" ~ beautiful!

 

[dayhiker]

I just love it when God leads me on a spiritual adventure. Good stuff!

 

[SwordmanJr]

The years I was trapped in religion made me feel like this:
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Ffourwindsangels%2Fi-need-a-doctor-new-remix
I remastered this one from scratch because the song itself was too nice to remain a trashy rap song.

 

[SwordmanJr]

"Spiritual Adventure" ~ beautiful!

Thank you. So glad you and others are touched by God's creation - music.

 

[johnbastion]

~ cite specifically which scripture was ''misquoted''

~ nowhere is Levirate marriage law restricted to the widow of only ONE brother

~ under Mosaic law polygyny was allowed {examples shown above} - Levirate marriage does not mean one must leave his own wife/wives in order to do his late brother(s) a favor. No numerical limitation was put into the law and Jesus had every opportunity to change or eliminate the Mosaic law but he refused. Therefore, contrary to conventional Christian denominational teaching this part of the Mosaic law remains.

When the Lord Jesus answered the question, he was answering based on the Mosaic law, that a brother should take his dead brother's wife as his wife. Here, the law specifically says that she is not just any woman but his dead brother's wife. It is a duty that he fulfills to his dead brother. It is no way an encouragement to polygamy.
Where does the Mosaic law say that a man can take more more than one wife? Cite the verse?

Jesus said that Divorce was permitted because of the "hardness" of heart. The real design of marriage was just one man and one woman. As Jesus Himself quotes Genesis, "In the beginning God created.." in Matt 19.

After Jesus Christ established the New Covenant, He holds us to higher standard because the Spirit of God dwells in us, and He says, "unless your righteousness exceeds that of the pharisees, you will in no way enter the kingdom of God." which is to say that the new covenant that Jesus came to establish is higher than the old covenant. How much higher? As much as Jesus (Who is the builder of the house) is higher than Moses (who was a servant in the house).
For Christians, the standard is not the Mosaic law, but the original design God intended and what Jesus Christ established as the New Covenant.

A glimpse of that is seen when Paul mentions the qualifications for a deacon - "He should be the husband of one wife"...

 

[johnbastion]

What verse(s) prove this?



What does that have to do with polygyny? Where did the Lord ever draw that parallel?



You're trying to attach divorce to a martial form God directly involved Himself in the giving? By what authority? I'd really like to see this, because it looks to me like you're trying to makes use of the same eisegetical practices I've seen in a number of cults.

It's all there in Matt. 19.

*[[Mat 19:3-9/NASB]]* %v 3% Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?" %v 4% And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, %v 5% and said, `FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? %v 6% "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." %v 7% They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?" %v 8% He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. %v 9% "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

 

[johnbastion]

If you can show me where the word "allowed" can be derived from the Hebrew texts of the subject passages, then I'd very much like to see it.

Here it is:

*[[Mat 19:3-9/NASB]]* %v 3% Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?" %v 4% And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, %v 5% and said, `FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? %v 6% "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." %v 7% They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?" %v 8% He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. %v 9% "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

 

[johnbastion]

Bingo! Where were you when I was trying to explain this in another thread about how legal common law marriage in all 50 states would free pastors and churches from the legalities of the government and marriage.

I would advise you to read the story about Ruth. Naomi's brother-in-law already had a wife and children but he was suppose to marry Ruth to carry on his brother's family line and he refused.

Naomi's brother in Law? You mean Boaz?
Where does it say he was already married?

But that's besides the point. The point is that the Mosaic law said that you were to fulfill your duty to your dead brother by taking his wife. It is not an encouragement to marry "any woman" and have multiple wives.

Here's what the Lord said:

*[[Mat 19:3-9/NASB]]* %v 3% Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?" %v 4% And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, %v 5% and said, `FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? %v 6% "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." %v 7% They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?" %v 8% He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. %v 9% "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

This are the words of Jesus Christ Himself. He designed marriage. He says, the" two" shall become one flesh... Not 3,4,or more.
This is the original design.

 

[HonestTruth]

Where does the Mosaic law say that a man can take more more than one wife? Cite the verse?

Easiest question in the world to answer:



In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.

In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

In Deuteronomy 21:15 "If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons...."






I am very glad that you phrased your question in the matter you selected because it illustrates one very important fault in Christian teaching and its understanding of the Bible. And that is this:


Christians believe in teaching by commandment and fail to understand that, while the Bible does this to a considerable extent, it also teaches by example.


Let me illustrate this - true, the Bible does say 'thou shalt do ______ ' or it says "thou shalt NOT do ______ " --- these are what I call affirmative and negative commandments. But one thing that is often overlooked by Christians is the fact that the Bible also teaches via exemplary commandments.

For example, you have just seen the five examples above from Mosaic law. Note that in none of those cases does it say ''thou shalt have {insert number of} wives". What it does give is examples of how many or few wives one may have and how to treat them.



Bottom line is, that through the exemplary commandments of the Bible, under Mosaic law a man may have multiple wives. Furthermore, as Jesus said, "I did not come to destroy Mosaic law but to fulfill it" in Matt 5. Later in the New Testament we are told that women who follow the example of Sarah (wife of Abraham) are divinely blessed and called "Sarah's daughter". And what makes her example so great? In addition to calling her husband "Master" she selected mistresses and concubines for him. This according to both the Old and New Testament is the ideal wife.

Follow the Bible's exemplary commandments and life will be better for all.



AMEN.

 

[johnbastion]

Easiest question in the world to answer:



In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.

In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

In Deuteronomy 21:15 "If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons...."






I am very glad that you phrased your question in the matter you selected because it illustrates one very important fault in Christian teaching and its understanding of the Bible. And that is this:


Christians believe in teaching by commandment and fail to understand that, while the Bible does this to a considerable extent, it also teaches by example.


Let me illustrate this - true, the Bible does say 'thou shalt do ______ ' or it says "thou shalt NOT do ______ " --- these are what I call affirmative and negative commandments. But one thing that is often overlooked by Christians is the fact that the Bible also teaches via exemplary commandments.

For example, you have just seen the five examples above from Mosaic law. Note that in none of those cases does it say ''thou shalt have {insert number of} wives". What it does give is examples of how many or few wives one may have and how to treat them.



Bottom line is, that through the exemplary commandments of the Bible, under Mosaic law a man may have multiple wives. Furthermore, as Jesus said, "I did not come to destroy Mosaic law but to fulfill it" in Matt 5. Later in the New Testament we are told that women who follow the example of Sarah (wife of Abraham) are divinely blessed and called "Sarah's daughter". And what makes her example so great? In addition to calling her husband "Master" she selected mistresses and concubines for him. This according to both the Old and New Testament is the ideal wife.

Follow the Bible's exemplary commandments and life will be better for all.



AMEN.

I'm sorry. I'd take Jesus' words over the Mosaic law. The old covenant is out aside..abolished. According to Hebrews.

I think Jesus knew what He was talking about.

 

[HonestTruth]

A glimpse of that is seen when Paul mentions the qualifications for a deacon - "He should be the husband of one wife"...

A "deacon". Strong's Concordance also uses the Greek words for bishop and superintendent.

This restriction is not applied to ordinary church members.