Christian only forums? Really?

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Of course, i never said preaching the word was wrong. I would agree with you if it were not for political debates. They are not about preaching the kingdom. They are about an earthly nation rather than the kingdom of heaven.

The whole point about interacting with unbelievers is that we need to represent Christ to them. The scripture says that if we lift up Christ, He will draw all men unto Him. It is the way we lift Him up that is the issue. The big problem about using a scripture-based approach is that most unbelievers don't believe the Bible, so one is flummoxed. Therefore one has to look for other ways to persuade unbelievers to accept and believe the gospel.

One way is acts of kindness to show that we care for people, like paying a bus fare for a mother with six children when she hasn't got enough to pay the fare herself; welcoming a new arrival to the neighborhood with an apple pie; offering your cell phone to a broken down motorist. These can be very effective ways of practically showing the love of Christ to unbelievers. I have offered healing prayer to unbelievers and have never been turned down. In fact they have thanked me for the blessing.

In the same way, when we discuss issues with unbelievers on the forum we need to be aware of the fruit of the Spirit - love, joy, peace, gentleness, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, patience, and self control. The scripture says that it is the kindness of God that leads people to repentance, not beating them over the head with a Biblical stick. And it is not withdrawing from them into our own religious cocoon. I think that if we did more talking to unbelievers on the basis of the fruit of the Spirit, many more would be prepared to listen, even if they decide not to take us up on our message and offer of salvation for them.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That's actually a pretty good example, I've noticed over the years Pentecostals have very little interest in debate. I was in an Assemblies of God Church for about a year and we covered the subject of tongues in a matter of minutes. They are not much for theology either, even though they have a Wesleyan tradition at the core of their beliefs. In that particular persuasion the exercise of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are inextricably linked to bearing the fruit of the Spirit. It's a way of thinking and a way of life that is not conducive to a divisive and contentious spirit.

Grace and peace,
Mark

After 12 years in the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement I had learned all that I could learn from them. I became bored with hearing the same doctrines over and over again. So I started reading Puritan literature. I got hold of William Gurnall's "Christian in Complete Armour" and devoured it. It is such a large and comprehensive book that after 30 years I haven't yet finished it. It goes far deeper into the basics of Christian faith than any Pentecostal preacher I have ever heard. Yet many of my Charismatic friends looked sideways at me and determined that I had got off the track by having a foundation in Puritan Calvinist theology. Actually, in between churches, I had Spurgeon's Expository Sermons (about 15 volumes), and he became my "pastor" for quite a while. But I still retain my Pentecostal theology because, as I said in another post, there is a difference between the theology and the practice in many places. The last Pentecostal (AOG) service I went to, the pastor got us all to stand up and he went around whispering, "Jesus is here", expecting people to start shaking and falling down. When he got to me, I refused to do either. He tried but failed. I found it embarrassing. Then I saw a lady writhing around on the floor moaning. I told that pastor that she needed deliverance. I don't think he agreed and that in his view she might be doing that in the Spirit. I felt that I was in a spooky spiritual environment and decided not to visit that church again. I felt relieved to get back to my "down to earth" Presbyterian church!

 

[mark kennedy]

After 12 years in the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement I had learned all that I could learn from them. I became bored with hearing the same doctrines over and over again. So I started reading Puritan literature. I got hold of William Gurnall's "Christian in Complete Armour" and devoured it. It is such a large and comprehensive book that after 30 years I haven't yet finished it. It goes far deeper into the basics of Christian faith than any Pentecostal preacher I have ever heard. Yet many of my Charismatic friends looked sideways at me and determined that I had got off the track by having a foundation in Puritan Calvinist theology. Actually, in between churches, I had Spurgeon's Expository Sermons (about 15 volumes), and he became my "pastor" for quite a while. But I still retain my Pentecostal theology because, as I said in another post, there is a difference between the theology and the practice in many places. The last Pentecostal (AOG) service I went to, the pastor got us all to stand up and he went around whispering, "Jesus is here", expecting people to start shaking and falling down. When he got to me, I refused to do either. He tried but failed. I found it embarrassing. Then I saw a lady writhing around on the floor moaning. I told that pastor that she needed deliverance. I don't think he agreed and that in his view she might be doing that in the Spirit. I felt that I was in a spooky spiritual environment and decided not to visit that church again. I felt relieved to get back to my "down to earth" Presbyterian church!

Puritans had some prolific writers and I think Spurgeon is an excellent choice. I studied with the Nazarenes out in Colorado, my experience was just the opposite. I've found my intolerance for liberal theology is getting more stubborn. I learned a ton of stuff but having to put extensive textual criticism in every paper was laborious and made it difficult to actually focus on the message. As a child a neighbor took me and his kids to a service out in the boonies somewhere, the church was nestled in a graveyard and rather picturesque. Then the service started picking up momentum and that was the first time I saw a revivalist worship service in full swing. At one point the preacher was running across the top of the pews and a woman was doing laps around the worship area.

However, I did a presentation on the COGIC churches, I was pretty impressed with their history. C.H.Mason was the son of former slaves, his father died of yellow fever. His mother fearing she would lose him once to sickness sent him to church, a cousin was the Preacher in another county. He was baptized and testified that he came out of the water healed. He would be one of the key people leading the Azuza Street revival and co-founder of the Pentecostal movement. They always preached there was no difference between black and white and practiced that for at least fifteen years. At Hot Springs Arkansas the white Pentecostals tragically left the COGIC church to found the Assemblies of God. In 1915 these churches had the answer to the civil rights issues of the 60s but caved to societal pressures. C.H.Mason attended, showing up with a singing group called the Saints Industrial and blessed them saying, may the waters bring forth abundantly, and they did.

I feel my Calvinist brethren, in the modern world have withdrew into ivory towers, while our Pentecostal brothers have been much more diligent in the harvest. There is still some very good evangelical ministry out there, the opportunities for Biblical exposition and exegetical study has never been more plentiful or neglected.

 

[W2L]

The scripture says that if we lift up Christ, He will draw all men unto Him

Its hard to lift up Christ while arguing politics, and even religion at times.

 

[mark kennedy]

Its hard to lift up Christ while arguing politics, and even religion at times.

When you actually see the panorama of redemptive history and experience the power of the age to come, the petty partisan wrangling of politics seem trite in comparison. Theology is a useful tool, and a serious exercise in systematic thought related to faith and doctrine. Just don't confuse politics and religion as being the same thing because religion is either from the inside out or it's pretentious.

 

[W2L]

When you actually see the panorama of redemptive history and experience the power of the age to come, the petty partisan wrangling of politics seem trite in comparison. Theology is a useful tool, and a serious exercise in systematic thought related to faith and doctrine. Just don't confuse politics and religion as being the same thing because religion is either from the inside out or it's pretentious.

Why would i confuse religion with politics?

 

[mark kennedy]

Why would i confuse religion with politics?

I didn't say you would, I said you can't.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

That advice doesn't mean much....

Especially when there are many different denominations giving the same advice but in disagreement with each other with their different theologies.

If everyone claims to be guided by the *same* Spirit, how come many beliefs are contradictory?

Contradicting interpretations isn't just a simple case of misinterpretation but at least one party is hearing from a false spirit. A spirit that must have come from the enemy.

The statement stands in that any truth that comes to a person must come from the Spirit of God.
The world, the flesh, and the devil are obstacles but God will allow the sheep to hear the truth.
Truth is not given to everyone in a way that results in salvation.

 

[Divide]

Okay for one, athiests are not defined as enemies of God. You say you don't want to disrespect me But you come here waving red flags over me. Then you assume that I have never had the holy Spirit guide my understanding of the Bible. I get the feeling I'm not going to like it here.

You may have at one time, but you've given up your faith in God so that's pretty cut and dried, dont'cha think? If you have no faith in God then why are you even here? Are you looking to restore your faith?
Why is it a big deal for you to get into the private area? What's your intention there? To drag people down with you?

That's the most curious thing to me. Atheists like to hang out on Christian forums. Why is that?
I know one thing for sure. If there really was no God, then there'd be no atheists. Good luck to you.

 

[Divide]

And how much touch do you give to that that is unclean? Those thoughts you have.... About certain things. Do you entertain them? Or do you swiftly rebuke them with great success? And how long will this battle go on? When will you find peace from such wicked temptations? When you die? Was it really worth doing battle your whole life only to find out that it was in vein?

Sure you could shut the door and close all the curtains. Let in only the saints. Create a mental bubble that will shield you from outside influence. While us sinners and unbelievers and unclean people have this world, you will have given it all up for a land over the rainbow. And when you are looking at the rest of us burning in hell, I'm sure you will smile in satisfaction knowing that you were right all along.

It is we who move mountains. We shape this world. We build it to reflect our advancements as a human race. And if God will come and destroy all our hard work, at least we can say we tried. We will look at him with contempt and question why he made us so great a species living in a tidepool if he never intended for us to go out and explore the ocean.

Ok so it sounds like you want in the private areas so that you can show people where they're wrong and show them your truths. In short, to convert them and take them away from their faith...and that's why their private. Bye.

 

[erealmz]

You may have at one time, but you've given up your faith in God so that's pretty cut and dried, dont'cha think? If you have no faith in God then why are you even here? Are you looking to restore your faith?
Why is it a big deal for you to get into the private area? What's your intention there? To drag people down with you?

That's the most curious thing to me. Atheists like to hang out on Christian forums. Why is that?
I know one thing for sure. If there really was no God, then there'd be no atheists. Good luck to you.

Well it certainly isn't for people like you. And on the contrary, if there were no God, or rather no religion claiming his existence, then we'd all be athiests.

 

[Sea Horse]

At first I was kind of upset about this. Then I figured Christians want a place to talk amongst themselves without interference from non believers. It makes sense. However, upon browsing the Christian only forums, I noticed there seems to be non-Christians in there as well. Or at the very least, those who struggle with the faith.

There are some very good discussions going on in those forums. But since I'm an athiest, I'm not allowed to participate. I have a lot to say and I know I could help people find answers to many of the questions they have. But you probably think that my intentions are to troll and spread propaganda.

As an ex-believer, I've studied the Bible and the Christian faith a great deal. And when I'm discussing such issues with people, I still use the Bible to quote scriptures.

I have nothing against Christians. Unless they are on the streets preaching about hell. Those are the only ones I will approach and argue with. Besides that, I do not push my views on anyone. I just love deep conversation. It's one of the reasons I joined this website. But if I'm going to be secluded from certain areas just because I don't hold the same beliefs as you, then my time here will probably be very short.

I'm not asking to be given special privileges. I'm sure your site wide rules are very effective in maintaining order in this place. Besides, if the only thing keeping me out of those forums were my spiritual orientation, I'm sure I could just make a new account and claim to be a Christian just to gain access. But I'm not going to do that. I stand where I stand and if this is the treatment I get for doing such, then it only serves to intensify my reasons to remain on that stance.

I will continue to browse the forums looking for good conversations. And if I find that the most interesting discussions are happening in places that I can not access, then as stated, I will not be a part of this website for much longer.

Maybe become Christian then you can discuss with us , most of us are tired of atheistic nonsense tho . Hey there is some other Atheist who is questioning science you can watch him .

 

[Goatee]

Well it certainly isn't for people like you. And on the contrary, if there were no God, or rather no religion claiming his existence, then we'd all be athiests.

True but believing in God is about faith. It's so deep in ones heart my friend. You just know there is God!

Look at me! A gigantic sinner! I have asked God for guidance, forgiveness etc etc. Still, my life is a complete and utter mess. Does that mean I will turn away from my love of God? NO!

I am glad you are on these forums. We are all friends here even if we have different beliefs

 

[erealmz]

True but believing in God is about faith. It's so deep in ones heart my friend. You just know there is God!

Look at me! A gigantic sinner! I have asked God for guidance, forgiveness etc etc. Still, my life is a complete and utter mess. Does that mean I will turn away from my love of God? NO!

I am glad you are on these forums. We are all friends here even if we have different beliefs

Thank you. I appreciate that.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Sometimes I want to apologize to atheists for the myriad ways in which Christians try to evangelize. I think their hearts are probably in the right place, but the attempts sometimes make me cringe.

Not to say I have perfect answers. Honestly, I find it's better to KNOW people, find what their real issues are. Often as not, it's certain inconsistencies or misplaced expectations failed that have led to their conclusions. The Christian landscape is a mess, but even that I think is mostly due to good intentions that nevertheless set them at odds with their brothers and sisters.

But when I find what seems to be a sincere human person who simply doesn't happen to believe in God, I am most concerned about the efforts turned in their direction.

I do apologize, erealmz, on behalf of any of us who might unintentionally offend. Please understand it usually at least comes from concern, if we may be a bit clumsy at times. Myself included. I hope you will bear with us. And I hope it is ultimately truth which you seek.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Trust me, I have a spiritual understanding of the Bible. Why would you some otherwise?

Without the Spirit of God, you cannot have a Spiritual understanding of the bible...such understanding comes from God alone;
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Not everyone is going to welcome truth...the same truth will judge them on the last day;
46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[quatona]

I know one thing for sure. If there really was no God, then there'd be no atheists.

That makes no sense at all.

 

[Catherineanne]

And how much touch do you give to that that is unclean? Those thoughts you have.... About certain things. Do you entertain them? Or do you swiftly rebuke them with great success? And how long will this battle go on? When will you find peace from such wicked temptations? When you die? Was it really worth doing battle your whole life only to find out that it was in vein?

Sure you could shut the door and close all the curtains. Let in only the saints. Create a mental bubble that will shield you from outside influence. While us sinners and unbelievers and unclean people have this world, you will have given it all up for a land over the rainbow. And when you are looking at the rest of us burning in hell, I'm sure you will smile in satisfaction knowing that you were right all along.

It is we who move mountains. We shape this world. We build it to reflect our advancements as a human race. And if God will come and destroy all our hard work, at least we can say we tried. We will look at him with contempt and question why he made us so great a species living in a tidepool if he never intended for us to go out and explore the ocean.

You are arguing against your own concept of God.

Ironic, that.

 

[Catherineanne]

Okay for one, athiests are not defined as enemies of God. You say you don't want to disrespect me But you come here waving red flags over me. Then you assume that I have never had the holy Spirit guide my understanding of the Bible. I get the feeling I'm not going to like it here.

If you denied that my best friend existed and tried to convince me that she did not exist either, yes, that would make you my friend's enemy. And mine. You are entitled to speak of what is real for you. You are most certainly NOT entitled to deny my reality.

Far too many atheists are far too evangelical.

The red flag is there; waving away.

 

[Catherineanne]

No one actually. I still go to church. I love the environment and I love the people. I just don't believe in the doctrines anymore. It's nothing against God. I'm not mad at him. I just can't prove that he exists so decided to not live my life as if he did.

Can you prove that you exist?

<<<<gets popcorn>>>>