Christian, Jewish groups sue Trump admin. over move to allow immigration raids in churches

[Clare73]

what about preaching the word of God?

I'm not getting the point of your question.

But preaching isn't the only way to present the word of God.

 

[Clare73]

Yeah well Matthew 25:31-46 comes to mind.

Keeping in mind that regards the "brothers" of the Son of Man (Mt 25:31), the King; i.e., Christians (Mt 25:40).

 

[BNR32FAN]

Keeping in mind that regards the "brothers" of the Son of Man (Mt 25:31), the King; i.e., Christians (Mt 25:40).

Oh so we should assume these people who are being taken out of CHURCH are not our brethren?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

24 hours? Are you kidding me? Then why were thousands of people camping on the Mexican side of the boarder for months if they were approved in 24 hours? You can’t hide that fact. And if that’s all they had to do then why are you saying they came here illegally, IF THEY WERE ALLOWED TO ENTER JUST BY APPLYING ON AN APP AND WAITING 24 HOURS?!! Do you see how ridiculous your argument sounds? Apply some common sense!!

Probably because they didn't have cell phones nor did they apply for asylum as a result.

Fact is, under the Biden presidency, they did everything they could to open the border to all who came.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Probably because they didn't have cell phones nor did they apply for asylum as a result.

Fact is, under the Biden presidency, they did everything they could to open the border to all who came.

Make up your mind. One minute Biden allowed them to enter, the next minute they came over illegally. You can’t even get your lies straight.

 

[FireDragon76]

Which brings us right back to the original question, do secular laws override God’s laws?

No, they don't. However, in the Lutheran or Reformed tradition, we generally should abide by all laws, or the consequences thereof, knowing that we cannot be guiltless before God either through our action or inaction, and we need to err on the side of love of neighbor. Corrie ten Boom, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and Martin Luther King, Jr. come to mind as obvious examples of Christian conscientious objection and resistance against unjust laws.

 

[Tuur]

What is someone who harbors an illegal immigrant actually aiding them in? Helping them to get a job so they can actually afford to apply for a green card? And maybe give them a place to stay and something to eat until they can get on their feet? You can’t compare entering the country illegally with stealing, they’re not the same crime. And to answer your question, no you don’t help them steal food YOU GIVE THEM FOOD WHICH YOU WOULD CONSIDER AIDING AND ABETTING.

I think the proper term is harboring a fugitive. What was Dr. Samuel Mudd charged with? Let's see...Mudd was found guilty of aiding and abetting the conspiracy to kill Lincoln. Mudd had treated Booth, but that turns out not to be the basis of the charges. Rather, it was in aiding Booth to escape and not alerting authorities of his presence.

Literally closer to home is a family I knew who's ancestors harbored Jessie James and Jim Cummins (before Jessie and Jim had a falling out). Jessie would always give the youngest member of the family a silver dollar to look after the horses. Note that some looked favorably on the James-Younger gang. Would the verses on having compassion mean that this family was required to provide hospitality to the Jessie and Jim? Did it matter than the family didn't consider the James-Younger gang to be a bad sort?

Closer in time in a minister I knew who was taking someone to a dry-out facility and was asked to buy some liquor, the stated purpose being to pour on the person's clothes so they would accept him. Not a big deal in some denominations, but a big one with the Baptists. Did the minister do wrong by refusing? Did it matter that the facility took this person, anyway?

You've stated that illegally entering the US isn't the same as bank robbery, and that's true. But is it sufficient for us to think that a person isn't "that bad" or "that's not as bad as bank robbery?" As stated above, some had a good opinion of the Jessie-Younger gang, but were they right in their opinion?

This gets into serious territory for Christians and not just for this particular issue. What things near and dear to our heats aren't backed by scripture at all, and are even condemned? And yes, I'm talking about all of us Christians. That's why looking at specific verses, including their context, is important.

 

[Tuur]

Violation of civil code is not a crime. Crime has a specific meaning. What you are describing is more like a parking ticket. People that get a parking ticket are not criminals. Neither are people that don't have a green card.

Undocumented Immigrants Are Not Criminals | U.S. Immigration Law Counsel

At US-ILC, we listen, we care, we deliver: Let our 89 years of combined experience help you navigate the complexities of immigration law. In this p.

us-ilc.com

Firedragon76, your cite addresses expired visas. Entering the US with a visa is legal entry. My cite of the US code is illegal entry. That is indeed a crime, with penalties prescribed by law. You compared illegal entry to a parking ticket, but can you do two years in prison for a parking ticket? Those who have expired visas are deported for that offense.

In other words, we're dealing with two different things: Illegal entry (my cite) and expired visas (your cite). Below is a cite that covers both:

https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/...n-a-crime-improper-entry-v-unlawful-presence/

 

[BNR32FAN]

You've stated that illegally entering the US isn't the same as bank robbery, and that's true. But is it sufficient for us to think that a person isn't "that bad" or "that's not as bad as bank robbery?" As stated above, some had a good opinion of the Jessie-Younger gang, but were they right in their opinion?

You’re comparing known murderers to people who we have no knowledge of them doing anything harmful to anyone. Are you suggesting that we should assume they’ve harmed people until we learn that they haven’t? We should presume they’re guilty and refuse people in need until proven otherwise? I mean if that’s the case then we shouldn’t help anyone in need whether they be an immigrant or a US citizen because maybe they might’ve broken a law that we don’t know about.

 

[Tuur]

You’re comparing known murderers to people who we have no knowledge of them doing anything harmful to anyone. Are you suggesting that we should assume they’ve harmed people until we learn that they haven’t? We should presume they’re guilty and refuse people in need until proven otherwise?

If you knowingly harbor those who have entered the US illegally, it matters not one whit whether they are murders or bank robbers. You have knowingly harbored someone who has broken US law. The question that still has gone unanswered is whether such is a command of God.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Make up your mind. One minute Biden allowed them to enter, the next minute they came over illegally. You can’t even get your lies straight.

What Biden did is make illegal entry legal, which was his open border goal. They were still technically illegal immigrants. Biden only
made them legal with TPS Visas to make his record on illegal immigrants entering the country go down.

 

[BNR32FAN]

What Biden did is make illegal entry legal, which was his open border goal.

First of all when something that is illegal, like say the consumption of alcohol for example, is made legal then it’s no longer illegal to do it. Second you never answered my question, why were thousands of people camped on the Mexican side of the boarder for months if they were allowed to enter the US?

You’re able to see thru the lies of the democrats but refuse to admit the lies of republicans.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

First of all when something that is illegal, like say the consumption of alcohol for example, is made legal then it’s no longer illegal to do it. Second you never answered my question, why were thousands of people camped on the Mexican side of the boarder for months if they were allowed to enter the US?

You’re able to see thru the lies of the democrats but refuse to admit the lies of republicans.

I answered that question but you refuse to acknowledge it.

The app that immigrants could access from the Mexico side of the border, made application for
TPS easy. The APP was only made available recently by the Biden administration, to make it
look like illegal immigration had been reduced. It wasn't. The illegals were merely made legal
through an EO, not by Congress.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If you knowingly harbor those who have entered the US illegally, it matters not one whit whether they are murders or bank robbers. You have knowingly harbored someone who has broken US law. The question that still has gone unanswered is whether such is a command of God.

Having compassion for people who are in need isn’t a commandment from God? Are you serious?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I answered that question but you refuse to acknowledge it.

The app that immigrants could access from the Mexico side of the border, made application for
TPS easy. The APP was only made available recently by the Biden administration, to make it
look like illegal immigration had been reduced. It wasn't. The illegals were merely made legal
through an EO, not by Congress.

You also said that they were approved within 24 hours and yet at no time were there hundreds or thousands of people being allowed to walk across the boarder. You also said that they were paying the cartels thousands of dollars to bring them across the boarder which doesn’t make any sense at all if this app actually existed. Those people were camped there for months because they were waiting to be processed by USCIS. If they were approved in 24 hours then thousands of people would’ve been walking across the boarder thru American boarder patrol checkpoints every day. That never happened. That’s why the only videos you can find are them camped on the Mexican side of the boarder but never any videos of thousands or even hundreds of people crossing at the checkpoints. And if they had they would’ve been entering legally. So nothing you’re saying makes sense because you’re parroting the lies you’ve been told by Trump’s administration. You’re not applying any logic or common sense to what actually took place.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

You also said that they were approved within 24 hours and yet at no time were there hundreds or thousands of people being allowed to walk across the boarder. You also said that they were paying the cartels thousands of dollars to bring them across the boarder which doesn’t make any sense at all if this app actually existed. Those people were camped there for months because they were waiting to be processed by USCIS. If they were approved in 24 hours then thousands of people would’ve been walking across the boarder thru American boarder patrol checkpoints every day. That never happened. That’s why the only videos you can find are them camped on the Mexican side of the boarder but never any videos of thousands or even hundreds of people crossing at the checkpoints. And if they had they would’ve been entering legally. So nothing you’re saying makes sense because you’re parroting the lies you’ve been told by Trump’s administration. You’re not applying any logic or common sense to what actually took place.

They could then enter through legal entry points with their TPS Visa. I didn't say anything about cartels.

Why are you in denial over this?

 

[BNR32FAN]

They could then enter through legal entry points with their TPS Visa. I didn't say anything about cartels.

Why are you in denial over this?

I apologize I confused another person’s post with your’s. I’m not in denial, don’t you see that both parties are liars? They both distort the facts to promote their agenda and the only way we can know what’s true and what isn’t is thru observation and applying logic and reason. It doesn’t make any sense for people to be camped out on the boarder for months waiting to cross if they’re allowed to cross just 24 hours after applying. And if they could get approved within 24 hours of applying why would anyone cross illegally? Why do we see caravans coming to the boarder but not caravans crossing the boarder at checkpoints? I’m not in denial, I’m applying common sense. It doesn’t make any sense that people wanting to come into America would cross illegally when they can get approved to enter legally in 24 hours. It also doesn’t make any sense for people to be camped at the boarder for months if they’re getting approved to enter within 24 hours.

 

[Clare73]

Oh so we should assume these people who are being taken out of CHURCH are not our brethren?

Whether they are brethren or not does not alter the authority of our laws over immigration and our obligation, as well as that of our brethren, to obey those laws.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

This happened in July of 2024 as Biden did everything to ensure Trump's illegal immigration policy would fail,
if he got elected. Trump got elected and illegal immigration at the southern border dropped
drastically.

Exclusive | Biden admin set to launch app so migrants can bypass in-person ICE check-ins: ‘Sh-t show’

“The thing has no enforcement around it and will have zero consequences when they don’t check in,” a source said. “Totally half baked and massively undercuts enforcement.&#8…

nypost.com