Christian Forums Under New Management

[Lindon Tinuviel]

Please realize that my question to you was a rhetorical one- after all, we all need to answer only to God.

But I am here because I believe that Christianity is the foundation of this WEB site, and so I would hope that the Nicene creed, or a similar statement of faith, ideally uniquely tailored to this site, will be forthcoming.

You really believe that you can divide a group of people without both of those sides factioning into judgemental, disrespectful, even mocking behavior?

Perhaps a website isn't capable of quenching that thirst? Maybe that requires one-on-one human contact?

 

[Servant222]

Oh, I know what's happened in the past in terms of the bad and ugly- but I've also seen a lot of good too.

We don't know all the ways that God quenches spiritual thirst- but I do know that we, as Christians, have everything to gain and nothing to lose if people with open minds can come here to listen, learn, and share; especially if their experience is a good and respectful one.

If it requires one-on-one contact to introduce people to Jesus, then we might as well shut down every Christian radio and television program, and write-off everyone living in a remote location, or in an oppressive country where evangelism is not allowed.

I personally think that this site has the potential to reach more people around the world than any other ministry in the history of the world. So let's make sure that we make every effort to give them something that will really quench their thirst- and not the sugar-coated stuff they can get at believe-anything-and-feel-good dot com.

 

[Angel4Truth]

People can get their points across without mocking behavior. If one has a thirst for mocking others as a believer then I suggest a trip to the cross before hitting enter.

 

[Bananna]

Love God
Love your neighbor.

Setting rules that govern all equally is what is expected in an orderly society. Enforcing those rules can be difficult. Having a statement of purpose is helpful, but having a narrow statement of beliefs serves to make some people feel they are the only ones due respect.

Open and mutually respectful discussion is how Iron sharpens Iron.

JMO
bananna

 

[TheBear]

double post

 

[Bananna]

Yes calling anyones beliefs garbage shows a lack of respect. If we desire to minister, we must respect where people are at and understand where they are coming from. Calling other peoples beliefs garbage shows pride and arrogance in my opinion.

It is better to simply say we believe they are incorrect and share why we believe that in a loving manner.

bananna

 

[Crazy Liz]

Please realize that my question to you was a rhetorical one- after all, we all need to answer only to God.

But I am here because I believe that Christianity is the foundation of this WEB site, and so I would hope that the Nicene creed, or a similar statement of faith, ideally uniquely tailored to this site, will be forthcoming.

Webs are networks. They don't need foundations.

 

[Servant222]

People can get their points across without mocking behavior. If one has a thirst for mocking others as a believer then I suggest a trip to the cross before hitting enter.

Agreed completely.

A Christian must consider Biblical principles -"Love your neighbour"- before commenting.

But a Christian also has an obligation to be a lamp and make sure that their faith shines out to the world. Jesus certainly made it very clear what the truth was- there was no mincing of words, even when he was standing there in the synagogues of Galilee telling the Pharisees that they needed to think about what they believed.

So, yes, this WEB site should be welcoming to all- but it should also make it clear that the cross is in fact important; fundamentally important, to this site.

 

[TheBear]

Yes calling anyones beliefs garbage shows a lack of respect. If we desire to minister, we must respect where people are at and understand where they are coming from. Calling other peoples beliefs garbage shows pride and arrogance in my opinion.

It is better to simply say we believe they are incorrect and share why we believe that in a loving manner.

bananna

Lee? Is that you?

 

[TheBear]

To all staff and staff trainees, [edit] and regular members too.

Although I do appreciate your efforts here, my questions are to LeeD, the new site owner. I ask that you allow Lee to answer my questions to him, for himself. Thanks.

 

[WatersMoon110]

So, yes, this WEB site should be welcoming to all- but it should also make it clear that the cross is in fact important; fundamentally important, to this site.

Don't the rules against mocking Christ(ianity) and promoting Satanism, the Christian Graphics, and the very Christian nature of the majority of the forums on this WEB site already do that?

 

[Servant222]

Will mockery of non-Christians, non-Christian beliefs, and non-Christian gods be allowed? For example, I just came across this in another discussion....

"All religions save the Judeo-Christian religion are garbage, they can't be taken seriously."

Is that a breach of the rules, or is this respect thing a one-way street? Because if it is a one-way street, and you don't consider non-Christians worthy of equal respect, then this site will die on the vines. You'll have nothing but Christians posting. Soon afterwards, it will be divided even more, and you'll only have a narrowly defined group of Christians here, perhaps only those subscribing to your brand of Christianity. If that's what you want, let us know now, and be done with all the placating and patronizing.

I await your straight-forward answer.

If I could be allowed to give my opinion- absolutely not- nobody should be saying things like that.

But I think a lot of people, because of the rapid nature of Internet communication, and the inability to see a person's facial expressions and hear the tone of their voice, don't realize they are being offensive with comments like that.

So there has to be an efficient way of challenging comments like that before, like the proverbial rotten apple, they afflict the entire barrel.

On a thread some time ago, I suggested that everyone should be willing to re-visit a post and make an instant change if there is even the slightest indication from someone else that it is offensive.

I suggested that everyone that is willing to edit first if PM'ed by another member, and ask questions later, should indicate their willingness to do so by having a little iEdit icon, or something like that, prominently displayed in their title block.

 

[TheBear]

If I could be allowed to give my opinion- absolutely not- nobody should be saying things like that.

But I think a lot of people, because of the rapid nature of Internet communication, and the inability to see a person's facial expressions and hear the tone of their voice, don't realize they are being offensive with comments like that.

So there has to be an efficient way of challenging comments like that before, like the proverbial rotten apple, they afflict the entire barrel.

On a thread some time ago, I suggested that everyone should be willing to re-visit a post and make an instant change if there is even the slightest indication from someone else that it is offensive.

I suggested that everyone that is willing to edit first if PM'ed by another member, and ask questions later, should indicate their willingness to do so by having a little iEdit icon, or something like that, prominently displayed in their title block.

Lee? Is that you?

 

[Servant222]

To all staff and staff trainees, [edit] and regular members too.

Although I do appreciate your efforts here, my questions are to LeeD, the new site owner. I ask that you allow Lee to answer my questions to him, for himself. Thanks.

Then why didn't you just PM him?

 

[TheBear]

Then why didn't you just PM him?

The purpose of this thread, is to ask questions of Lee, the new site owner.

 

[TheBear]

Mockery of Christians, Christians beliefs, and the Christian God are not.

Will mockery of non-Christians, non-Christian beliefs, and non-Christian gods be allowed? For example, I just came across this in another discussion....

All religions save the Judeo-Christian religion are garbage, they can't be taken seriously.

Is that a breach of the rules, or is this respect thing a one-way street? Because if it is a one-way street, and you don't consider non-Christians worthy of equal respect, then this site will die on the vines. You'll have nothing but Christians posting. Soon afterwards, it will be divided even more, and you'll only have a narrowly defined group of Christians here, perhaps only those subscribing to your particular brand of Christianity. If that's what you want, let us know now, and be done with all the placating and patronizing.

I await your straight-forward answer, LeeD

 

[ravenscape]

Will mockery of non-Christians, non-Christian beliefs, and non-Christian gods be allowed? For example, I just came across this in another discussion....
Is that a breach of the rules, or is this respect thing a one-way street? Because if it is a one-way street, and you don't consider non-Christians worthy of equal respect, then this site will die on the vines. You'll have nothing but Christians posting. Soon afterwards, it will be divided even more, and you'll only have a narrowly defined group of Christians here, perhaps only those subscribing to your particular brand of Christianity. If that's what you want, let us know now, and be done with all the placating and patronizing.

I await your straight-forward answer, LeeD

I'm not answering your question, but I wanted to let you know that LeeD takes weekends off with his family. You seem interested in a quick answer from the right guy, but he probably won't see your post(s) until Monday at the earliest.

 

[TheBear]

I'm not answering your question, but I wanted to let you know that LeeD takes weekends off with his family.

That's fine by me. I'm in no hurry. I just want a definitive answer from Lee.

You seem interested in a quick answer from the right guy, but he probably won't see your post(s) until Monday at the earliest.

Like I said, I await Lee's answer - not impatiently await his answer.


Just thought I'd clarify that for you, and for everyone else who wants to reply to my questions to Lee.

Leave it alone, folks! My questions don't involve anyone but Lee, the new site owner, and the purpose of this thread. If I wanted your opinions on these matters, I'd ask you in another thread. Here, I'm asking LeeD.

 

[Lindon Tinuviel]

nm

 

[Amoranemix]

514][/b]The bottom line is that we need clear leadership. Lee seems to want to provide that. I am thrilled. No more experiments. The rats cannot find their way out of the maze.

The need for clear leadership and equating that to dictatorship seems to be a Christian thing.

515[/url]]Agreed. And for those who don't like the idea of that, what is the problem?

For those who don’t like the idea of clear leadership obviously clear leadership would be the problem. For most though it is dictatorship that is the problem.

526[/b]]If you see inconsistency in moderation in the forums you frequent, build a case and send it to a member of the Reconciliation Team. This team will review the request, do more research, and individually/as a team advise MNPhysicist and me of any inconsistencies...which will then be addressed.

So the procedures that must create the illusion that justice will be served are being put in place. Illusions have no place is a justice system.

529]No, see, this site is here for God. This site should only ever be about glorifying Him. Profit is inconsequential.

I doubt LeeD sees it that way. He probably tries to compromise between God and profit.

531[/url]]Like you I don't know the inner workings of the site of how it relates to income, but I do think that one of Erwins primary reasons for creating Foru.mess back in July was to make it sellable.

Erwin denied having plans to sell the forum.

534[/b]]There should be different standards for Christians and non-Christians.

The standards are different. We Christians actually have a higher standard to live be and should be held to that standard.

I disagree that Christians should be held to a higher standard and the rules hold non-Christians to higher standard.

539[/b]I just don't see how open reports work on a site this size in a practical way. Does anyone know of a site this large that does open reports? Honest question there. This is a large site with debate areas and divisive issues being discussed. Is there any other site of that nature this size that uses open reports.[1]

I am not saying what everyone does is right for everyone else. But usually if bunches of disconnected people do things the same way...it is because it works.[2]

[1] I don’t know one, but I am ill-informed. We may still have an opportunity, be it only to a small degree, to be unique.
[2] The reason lions eat wildebeest is because that works. That doesn’t mean that the wildebeest should support lions eating them.

542[/b]]This is a Christian site and needs to foremost meet the needs of the Body of Christ.

So power abuse and inequality serve the body of Christ. Cool. I’ll try remembering that for my debates with Christians.

543][/b]There will always be a bias problem, and not just with mods. The thing is, it might have been a problem in some sections and not others. But the open reports are, in my opinion, not helping by creating venom and greater ill will. That needs to be fixed.

Just as with the wiki process my advice is not to throw away the baby with the bathwater. Reducing the anonymity of the posters in the reports should diminish the problem.

552]I think you're right. I think the rules should be as simple as possible... in my opinion, the temporary ones posted by Lee in the OP are good, and the site doesn't really need more rules than that.

The idea that one can proficiently run a complex society with few simple rules is naïve. It would only work if the authorities consist of nothing but good people.

Stranger (post 559) has a point. Giving people special powers and access inflates their ego and makes them even worse sinners.

Thirst_for_knowledge : Broad rules really aren't good. We need rules that leave as little up to interpretation as possible.
Eldermike 560: That's impossible.
Geocajun : Exactly. If it were, God would have done in with the bible
Of course it is possible, by definition. What makes you think it is impossible ?

591]So now you are telling me at a Christian site I should have to pay for perks? That everyone is not to be treated equally? That money talks?
Does that really seem right to you?

To me it seems right that those who pay more get more.

592]Let's just wait and see where this goes - in my opinion of this site as of right now, it's at meltdown point. Almost any step is a better step than where we are right now.

While we are waiting we might as well be complaining. It’s not those who stay silent that are listened to. You weren’t waiting and seeing when you joined the anti-wiki crowd.

The worst case scenario is if he went totally secular with it & most of us would just need to take the high road out of here & find a Godly forum or whatever.

Second worst case scenario is it stays exactly the same as it is now (with alot of us ready to leave if this garbage keeps up).

Both are very unlikely and no one is in support of the second.

I know the frustrations here are very high & we're all at boiling points, but let's just give Lee some space without judging about him personally or his motives which we cannot know right now.

It’s not the motives but the new policy that I am judging.

601]It's a forum that can be run however LeeD Wants to run it.
It's his ball & he gets to decide the rules for playing with it, and who gets to play with it.

It is not because LeeD has the right to run his site badly that we should applaud that.

From Forum Specific Rules will no longer be used!

Staff and members should be encouraged to spend the next few days developing guidelines for the forums where they participate or moderate in. Remember, these are NOT rules, but can describe what topics should be discussed and in what fashion.

Who is going to do that, encouraging members to develop guidelines ? Sounds like wishful thinking to me. I have been wasting time with developing rules. Why should I waste more with developing guidelines ?

So far this has not happened. To date, I have conversed with ONE STAFF MEMBER - COUNT THAT, ONE - THAT HAS BEEN DECENT AND CORDIAL. The rest have either been totally unresponsive, or have been belligerent and argumentative.

My private conversations with staff so far (since I joined) were mediocre. The Review Committee reduced the average due to their lacking communication regarding appeals. The rest I would evaluate as mediocre to good.

Lindon Tinuviel 647 :The simplest solution I've found for making sure that Reports are handled in a fair and timely manner is to PM every Mod in charge of that Forum and explain the situation... in great detail. As often as you need to.
Angel4Truth : Floating you can always pm a staff member of the team the post is in. Please allow time for it to be taken care of also
That is impractical. Not everyone has a 4 digit PM box size.

Well, that is assuming that we are going to know that we have been reported.[1]

Now, I was rarely reported before 7-7-07, but I cannot remember if I received notice or not. Did we?[2]

[1]If the ruling is NV it is not important to know you are reported.
[2] I didn’t receive notice.

Will mockery of non-Christians, non-Christian beliefs, and non-Christian gods be tolerated?

I don’t think LeeD is any longer in the mood for answering members. Normally the mockery you mention falls under the no flaming rules. It did before. LeeD appears to want to appeal to an as broad a public as possible, as long as they accept dictatorship.

Great start, Lee! I approved of many of the changes of 777, but some, I felt, led to too much chaos. These changes seem to bring some order back to the site.

Taking away people’s freedom usually increases order. Taking away the people altogether increases order even more.

Is this the chat line or a serious discussion thread?

This is a chat thread until the police shows up who briefly turn it into a discussion thread and when they leave it becomes a chat thread again.

In the mean time LeeD has closed all the thread in the General wiki forum and in the wiki/rules discussion forum. I am changing my mind from thinking that LeeD followed the majority that it is the majority who sometimes follows LeeD. Changing my signature ‘Erwin listens to the members like God listens to his creatures.’ into ‘LeeD listens to the members like God listens to his creatures.’ may be appropriate after all.

I find it noteworthy that no one objects to the name being changed back to christianforums.