Christian couple in Pakistan killed over "blasphemy".

[RDKirk]

Oh..for today see my thread witch nearly beheaded in OK

What does a crazed drug addict believe, except that he needs more of his drug?

I asked stated to you in post #17 of that thread:

"So it appears to be your contention that he was a mentally stable person participating in a normal Christian act."

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

In more general terms, the kind of extremism that makes this possible is quite common in Pakistan. Which is a result of the Wahhabi-funded Madrasas which are all over the country, but particularly in poor areas, where the population are illiterate and have had no education to speak of, aside from what they received in the Madrasa (if you can even call that education).

I might sound like a broken record always blaming the Saudis for this kind of stuff, but their extreme brand of Islam, and the huge amounts of cash they put into exporting it wherever they can, is responsible for so many terrible things.

I have a copy of that record.

But if you can get personal enough with Muslims from other countries--Indonesia, Iran, India--they will tell you the same thing. It really is the Saudis (and emirates on the peninsula) and the Wahabism they have the money to spread around the world.

The US and other governments need to point out that specific fact, but the Saudis have their hands too deep into American and European pockets.

I'm going to have to disagree with you two here.

The majority of Pakistanis are barelwis (at least half, according to the lower "official guess" percentage). They, along with Shi'as, are the furthest thing from wahabis that you can think of. Barelwis and Shi'as often call other people wahabis (and/or CIA agents and/or puppets of the Zionists) as an insult if they do not like that person's creed or politics even if the people they call wahabis are pretty far from being wahabi (or spies or Zionists) to begin with. An example of this would be a group known as the deobandis who comprise a large percentage of the non-barelwi population of Pakistan and are most definitely not wahabis. But barelwis often call them that simply because deobandis don't have beliefs about the Prophet that are considered extreme to most other Muslims (e.g. barelwis believe things like the Prophet Muhammad is everywhere & can see everything & that Allaah gave him all the knowledge of this world and the future, that he's not actually dead in this world and is present with us. Some of the more hardcore barelwis actually stand up out of respect when his name is mentioned because they believe that he is in the room with him). Because the deobandis do not elevate the status of the Prophet to that basically of God's, they're deemed wahabis by barelwis.

It would be remiss to say Saudis have a large degree of control over Pakistan or the vast majority of Pakistanis or their religious education. Most Pakistanis, in rural villages or bustling cities, educated or not, are barelwis or deobandis. Not wahabis. And let's not even get started on Iran. They'd blame an ant biting them after they stepped on an ant hill on Saudi Arabia and/or wahabis.

Now, I do have some questions if you don't mind answering:

What are wahabi teachings (from their own books)? Are those teachings specific to them? Is there proof that Saudi Arabia follows them?

 

[RDKirk]

I'm going to have to disagree with you two here.

The majority of Pakistanis are barelwis (at least half, according to the lower "official guess" percentage). They, along with Shi'as, are the furthest thing from wahabis that you can think of. Barelwis and Shi'as often call other people wahabis (and/or CIA agents and/or puppets of the Zionists) as an insult if they do not like that person's creed or politics even if the people they call wahabis are pretty far from being wahabi (or spies or Zionists) to begin with. An example of this would be a group known as the deobandis who comprise a large percentage of the non-barelwi population of Pakistan and are most definitely not wahabis. But barelwis often call them that simply because deobandis don't have beliefs about the Prophet that are considered extreme to most other Muslims (e.g. barelwis believe things like the Prophet Muhammad is everywhere & can see everything & that Allaah gave him all the knowledge of this world and the future, that he's not actually dead in this world and is present with us. Some of the more hardcore barelwis actually stand up out of respect when his name is mentioned because they believe that he is in the room with him). Because the deobandis do not elevate the status of the Prophet to that basically of God's, they're deemed wahabis by barelwis.

It would be remiss to say Saudis have a large degree of control over Pakistan or the vast majority of Pakistanis or their religious education. Most Pakistanis, in rural villages or bustling cities, educated or not, are barelwis or deobandis. Not wahabis. And let's not even get started on Iran. They'd blame an ant biting them after they stepped on an ant hill on Saudi Arabia and/or wahabis.

Nobody said the Saudis control Pakistan. Deflection deflected.

Now, I do have some questions if you don't mind answering:

What are wahabi teachings (from their own books)? Are those teachings specific to them? Is there proof that Saudi Arabia follows them?

Do you want links? No, you don't, because this is not something unknown to Muslims. You can clearly find out for yourself and probably already know, but intend to dispute otherwise.

But if you are interested in learning, speak to a Shia or a Sufi, or even a Druze.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Nobody said the Saudis control Pakistan. Deflection deflected.

Perhaps it escaped your notice that I also mentioned religious education.

So Saudis do not control Pakistan, Pakistanis, or their religious education and barelwis comprise the majority of the pouplation (and the deobandis the majority of the remainder) and it is their teachings that are spread, but....?

Do you want links? No, you don't, because this is not something unknown to Muslims. You can clearly find out for yourself and probably already know, but intend to dispute otherwise.

But if you are interested in learning, speak to a Shia or a Sufi, or even a Druze.

You could've just said you don't know, then, instead of going on a rant about my intentions or knowledge.

 

[SuperCloud]

Muslimah, I'm curious does your knowledge or insight go beyond being a Muslimah and result in part from geography or travel?

Where are you located if you don't mind me asking?

How true is it that Muslim women are prohibited from marrying non-Muslim men, and would a Muslim woman such as yourself face lynching if she did so?

 

[RDKirk]

Perhaps it escaped your notice that I also mentioned religious education.

So Saudis do not control Pakistan, Pakistanis, or their religious education and barelwis comprise the majority of the pouplation (and the deobandis the majority of the remainder) and it is their teachings that are spread, but....?

Saudis do not "control" it, but they heavily fund schools and mosques that teach Wahabism all over the world. If you want Saudi financial support, you get Saudi Wahabism.

You could've just said you don't know, then, instead of going on a rant about my intentions or knowledge.

I do know, but I can also see that you need to hear it face-to-face from another Muslim, not from a Christian in a forum.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Religion poisons everything.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Muslimah, I'm curious does your knowledge or insight go beyond being a Muslimah and result in part from geography or travel?

It does go beyond being a Muslimah, but not due to geography or travel. What I said in that post should check out should you wish to research it.

Where are you located if you don't mind me asking?

The US.

How true is it that Muslim women are prohibited from marrying non-Muslim men, and would a Muslim woman such as yourself face lynching if she did so?

Muslim women are not allowed to marry non-Muslims under any condition. Muslim men are allowed to marry Christian or Jewish women in principle, though even this may be deemed impermissible by scholars if certain conditions aren't met (e.g. if there's a good chance any children would be raised on something other than Islaam). Even if the conditions are met, it is not something that is preferred.

Saudis do not "control" it, but they heavily fund schools and mosques that teach Wahabism all over the world. If you want Saudi financial support, you get Saudi Wahabism.

1.) No, you do not get "Saudi Wahabism" if you get Saudi financial support. Case in point: FOX News.

2.) Again, barelwis comprise the majority of the Pakistani population. The majority of the remainder are deobandis. It is mainly their teachings that are being spread throughout the country, not "Saudi Wahabism".

I do know, but I can also see that you need to hear it face-to-face from another Muslim, not from a Christian in a forum.

No, I need hard evidence. I'll take you up on your offer of links that show what wahabi teachings are from their own books and works (instead of people's personal opinions regarding them) since, despite you saying you know, you've failed to provide an answer with solid proof.

 

[mindlight]

Chechnyans have joined ISIS in Iraq.

The reason you will keep hearing about extremists in Pakistan is because, as I said, Pakistan is one of the wellsprings of Islamic fanaticism. It's like oranges from Florida or pineapples from Hawaii.

A good proportion of terrorism in the UK is generated by people from a Pakistani background. Also a lot of radicals travel too and fro and even study in Pakistan.

 

[mindlight]

It's very unlikely that they actually did desecrate a Quran. Usually these things simply get made up to discredit someone that the accuser has fallen out with.

And the local population, nearly always poor and uneducated, lap it up because of their ingrained bigotry against those whose beliefs are different to their own. "Typical sort of thing an unbeliever would do" etc.

In more general terms, the kind of extremism that makes this possible is quite common in Pakistan. Which is a result of the Wahhabi-funded Madrasas which are all over the country, but particularly in poor areas, where the population are illiterate and have had no education to speak of, aside from what they received in the Madrasa (if you can even call that education).

I might sound like a broken record always blaming the Saudis for this kind of stuff, but their extreme brand of Islam, and the huge amounts of cash they put into exporting it wherever they can, is responsible for so many terrible things.

Good post an example of the illiterate mob in action. But there is usually a rabble rouser.

I wonder to what extent tribalism and the isolation of these schools contribute to their twisted and extreme interpretations of Wahhabi teachings.

 

[Sammy-San]

I question in either case: Did the alledged crime even happen?

When you have Christians (or any other non-Muslim) in a society in which they know dishonoring the Koran is not only strictly illegal but also subject to extreme mob attack, is it really likely that they would burn the Koran or merely toss it into a wastebasket?

If people in Pakistan didnt believed tthat the Christians burned a Quran and they only used it as an excuse to attack them, then why does the evidence point towards the attacks being religious motivated in nature? Here's some proof. Imam of a local mosque incited murder of Christian couple, says police – The Express Tribune

Imam of a local mosque incited murder of Christian couple, says police

 

[RDKirk]

If people in Pakistan didnt believed tthat the Christians burned a Quran and they only used it as an excuse to attack them, then why does the evidence point towards the attacks being religious motivated in nature? Here's some proof. Imam of a local mosque incited murder of Christian couple, says police – The Express Tribune

Of course the attacks were religiously motivated. That doesn't mean their religious motivation had basis in anything those Christians actually did.

Do you remember the issue a few years ago of the Danish cartoonist who depicted Muhammad in a cartoon that resulted in a Pakistani Muslim murdering a nun in Pakistan in protest?

 

[Sammy-San]

Of course the attacks were religiously motivated. That doesn't mean their religious motivation had basis in anything those Christians actually did.

Do you remember the issue a few years ago of the Danish cartoonist who depicted Muhammad in a cartoon that resulted in a Pakistani Muslim murdering a nun in Pakistan in protest?

So if the blasphemy was just an excuse for what they did, what was the real reason they targeted the Christian couple?

 

[RDKirk]

So if the blasphemy was just an excuse for what they did, what was the real reason they targeted the Christian couple?

I'm going to repeat:

Do you remember the issue a few years ago of the Danish cartoonist who depicted Muhammad in a cartoon that resulted in a Pakistani Muslim murdering a nun in Pakistan in protest?

That murderer said that was his reason.

Now, what do you think was the "real" reason that nun was targeted?

 

[adrianmonk]

So if the blasphemy was just an excuse for what they did, what was the real reason they targeted the Christian couple?

In Pakistan ? This usually means someone wanted the property of the Christian couple. Accusing someone of blasphemy usually follows some land dispute if one of the parties is not a Muslim.

 

[DaisyDay]

Only some bones and hair were found at the site.

Why would there be hair found? Hair burns quicker than skin or flesh.

 

[Sammy-San]

I'm going to repeat:

Do you remember the issue a few years ago of the Danish cartoonist who depicted Muhammad in a cartoon that resulted in a Pakistani Muslim murdering a nun in Pakistan in protest?

That murderer said that was his reason.

Now, what do you think was the "real" reason that nun was targeted?

My guess-he didnt like Christians.

 

[Sammy-San]

In Pakistan ? This usually means someone wanted the property of the Christian couple. Accusing someone of blasphemy usually follows some land dispute if one of the parties is not a Muslim.

Do you think the mobs in Pakistan knew this, or they honestly believed the Christian couple was guilty of blasphemy? Im not asking about the person making the accusation-but the crazy extremists who responded.

 

[Glass*Soul]

In Pakistan ? This usually means someone wanted the property of the Christian couple. Accusing someone of blasphemy usually follows some land dispute if one of the parties is not a Muslim.

Ah. Like being accused of being a witch during the Salem witch trials.

 

[dgiharris]

Why would there be hair found? Hair burns quicker than skin or flesh.

whenever you have a fire, it is possible for ash to wrap around certain items and serve as insulation protecting that item. Typically happens on a small and fragmentary basis. Similarly, sometimes within a fire there are areas that are "cold spots", this can arise due to some areas being deprived of oxygen.

So, it is not unusual when burning big items that some pieces of the big item survive.