Christian conversions

Andrewn

Well-Known Member
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Jul 4, 2019
5,802
4,309
-
✟681,411.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Same for similar events in other religions, for example how Lord Krishna upon his death ascended into his transcendent abode (8-9 century BCE). It’s somewhat reminiscent of Jesus’s resurrection.
The Bhagavata Purana in Book 11, chapter 31 states that after his death, Krishna returned to his transcendent abode directly because of his yogic concentration. The date of composition is probably between the eighth and the tenth century CE.

It is more likely that the name "Krishna" itself is derived from "Christ."
 
  • Like
Reactions: James_Lai
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,094
6,097
North Carolina
✟276,450.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Yes, I understand the historic background and modern more globalized world with increased migration mostly from the Muslim to the Christian world and not in the opposite direction.

Again, I just look from the outside and I can’t help and compare. Conversions, proselytism, okay. Well, in my place of work no Christian ever even wanted to talk about their faith (assuming at least one of them might be). I think all Muslims at one point at work made it known to me that they’re Muslim and kind of investigated my stand there. During work trips Muslim workers shared about their faith almost daily, for example, when refusing alcohol or gelatine candy. It was some part of conversation out there with them, because it’s a huge and sincere part of their life. Also, all Muslim employees know each other and sometimes share Muslim activities in their private life.

So it’s more than just one or two episodes you can point your finger at, it’s manifesting on so many levels constantly.
I was preached to by Toronto Muslim cab drivers so many times, it’s almost an expected experience for me, but not once by a Christian one ever
(I could only guess by an icon or cross on the dash and somewhat by the name).
Precisely as it should be. . .

"Religion" is about pitching, selling and recruiting, and whatever works to increase the numbers.
Christianity is not a sales pitch, advertising campaign nor recruiting program.
It is the work of the Holy Spirit. . .and the mature Christian looks for signs of the Holy Spirit at work in an individual before bringing it up, because if the Holy Spirit is not at work there, it is a waste of time.
The icon or cross is a perfect invitation for the one in whom the Holy Spirit is actually at work and who would likely be moved to inquire.
Christianity is not just another "religion." It's not like any other "religion" at all.
 
Upvote 0

FutureAndAHope

Just me
Site Supporter
Aug 30, 2008
6,361
2,911
Australia
Visit site
✟734,719.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Your thoughts about the below??

One striking difference I find between Christian and Muslim practice is conversions… (Or reverting as Muslims like to say, who consider all infants to be originally born Muslim).

In a protestant Christian church, when there are public conversions (or at least confessing/declaration of conversions), it’s a low-key event. Yes there could be clapping and some happy exclamations, but it all basically culminates with presenting a lootbag of books to the new believers. In some cases, there would be an Alfa course to attend afterwards. Or if you leave and never come back, chances are, you’re forgotten. In Orthodox or Catholic church, I’ve never witnessed a public conversion, only baptisms which are done postfactum. So I have no idea how it’s supposed to happen, probably simply a mental decision in private. Or perhaps the baptisms are the conversions for them. I know there’s some studying involved before you can join the faith, such as “The Law of God” course in the EO churches. For protestants, they love to lead new believers in a short “sinner’s prayer”… But not always. Some only require accepting the fundamental truths of the Gospel by faith.

Well, Muslim public conversions, on the other hand, are always a big deal. Probably the biggest of all… The whole mosque would rhythmically repeat in unison “Takbir - Allahu Akbar!” The conversion would be highly emotional, with the convert crying 9 out of 10 times during the Shahada, even if it’s a rugged man…The imam could be sobbing too, as do half of the mosque…

Then the whole mosque would want to congratulate, hug and kiss the man/woman…. (well, pre-2020). They would be so eager to tell you, “Oh brother, I envy you because today you are pure, cleansed of all your previous sin, in a better standing than all of us here who have been sinning, you have a clean slate”. The people really impress this thought upon you. They would welcome the new Muslim to their homes, invite for lunches, throw parties, shower with gifts (even poor people), provide advice on following the Din and growing in the Iman, joke about a new Muslim name for you, suggest how to dress etc… Genuine and cute. Overall, they immediately surround you with a robust network of support as a closed-knit community. They’re especially extatic if you’re not from a traditionally Muslim nation, firmly believing one day Islam would be accepted world over… A big deal for them… I experienced that, though honestly I never really accepted Islam in its entirety, all I wanted was to try it out. I did have some sincerity.

So…. this tells me that Islam is practiced way more deeply and sincerely than Christianity…. Christians can sit on pews and check their emails on smartphones during service…. You can’t imagine a Muslim reach for their phone during a Juma salaat…. Islam is an all-encompassing mindset and way of life to many Muslims, but Christianity is often a nominal Sunday activity for Christians…

In Muslim countries, it’s Islam or mostly Islam that directs the public and private life. In Christian or post-Christian countries it’s just an add-on of convenience to otherwise secular life, an add-on that’s mostly kept private.

Muslims want to know your religion first second they meet you, and learning you’re part of the umma, they turn on the “you’re one of us” mode on high gear, kinly opening up to you… Or, the “let me tell you what you’re missing” mode if you’re not. Christians can work with you side-by-side for 10 years and you’d never even once suspect they’re a Christian….

Of course, how apostasy is treated in these two religions today is a whole different subject :) An ignorant kafir or an ex-Muslim kafir, well, not the same thing… no more ir-Rahman ir-Raheem!

It matters not who appears more sincere the fact is the Muslim faith is aggressive and violent at its heart. It tries to wrap this aggression in law, by that I mean its punishments are carried out in a judicial way. But its punishments are still harsh and unreasonable.

Quran 5:38 As to the thief, male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power.

Sahih International (Quran 4:34): Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

Pickthall (Quran 4:34): Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

7.623 Narrated Anas bin Malik: [initial text]…. When this news reached the Prophet he sent in their pursuit (and they were caught and brought). The Prophet ordered that their eyes be branded with heated iron bars and their hands be cut off, and they were left at Al−Harra till they died in that state. - Abram, Simon. Islamic Hadith . Kindle Edition.

Jesus (the Christian head) on the other hand was a lot softer on people. The primary reason why a church seems less reverent is they have less to fear.

Matthew 5:43-44 You have heard people say, "Love your neighbors and hate your enemies." But I tell you to love your enemies and pray for anyone who mistreats you.

Mark 12:30-31 And you are to have love for the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength. The second is this, Have love for your neighbour as for yourself. There is no other law greater than these.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Andrewn
Upvote 0

James_Lai

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2021
1,100
265
38
Ontario
✟24,480.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
The Bhagavata Purana in Book 11, chapter 31 states that after his death, Krishna returned to his transcendent abode directly because of his yogic concentration. The date of composition is probably between the eighth and the tenth century CE.

It is more likely that the name "Krishna" itself is derived from "Christ."

Could very well be! Or vice versa, as many Hindus are convinced Jesus travelled to India in his “hidden years” not accounted for by the canonical gospels between ages 12 and 30… 18 years is a long time.

My point was, there are many examples in the history of religions, including Judaism and Christianity themselves. Some Judaists believed Moses became a deity and was “resurrected” in the sense of obtaining an energetic body. Or even Romulus one of the founders of Rome in paganism, same thing.

To say it’s a uniquely Christian teaching is just isn’t true. Though I know it was made a huge “selling point” for Christian missionaries and evangelists… “Our Lord’s grave is empty! How about your prophet, huh?”

I recall the conversations I had playing in a sandbox as a preschooler:
“- My dad has a handgun and knows Karate Do! How about your dad?
- Well, my dad has a rifle and knows karate do and judo and works for the police! Beat that!!
- But my dad can break your dad’s rifle and yours can’t possible break the pistol!!!”

I don’t think establishing superiority of your faith in any way is a good winning strategy long-term… You can attract some, but you’ll push away even more… It’s best to come from a loving and humble place I think…
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0