Chrislam?

[ebia]

Uh oh! Seriously, Christianity and Islam cannot be fused into one faith.
Isaiah 9:6 says


This goes to our Lord Jesus who is and was to come. I mean, look here,

John 1:1...


followed by John 1:14...


which is somehow linked with:


and Matthew 1:20


and then proven by:

Isaiah 7:14


Which clearly means that God spoke through the prophets through His Spirit which He then sent to the womb of Mary in order to become man and thus... giving the Lord access and speaking to people as a man (I think I intentionally put a trope here). However, the Moslems rejected the fact from the above that Christ is the Lord in flesh and that includes his Sonship of God. This is not nice at all. You cannot have two contradictory religions fused as one or else, it would be a breeding ground of heresies and false teachings which

Galatians 1:8
NAB's


or NIV's

and then what, Paul is even angry!
Galatians 5:12


Good job false teachers for making him angry with the power of the above. Ahem... This "merging" is highly irritating guys, I really do not like this at all.

Nobody seems to be suggesting any kind of merging or syncretism. The made-up word is clearly designed to suggest such, but the instances actually pointed to are nothing of the sort but are rather exercises in dialog, education and building mutual understanding.

 

[S.ilvio]

Nobody seems to be suggesting any kind of merging or syncretism. The made-up word is clearly designed to suggest such, but the instances actually pointed to are nothing of the sort but are rather exercises in dialog, education and building mutual understanding.

Thats my reading of it...

 

[isshinwhat]

Beliefs/Worship

Chrislam uses both the Bible and Qur’an and sees them both as holy texts. During the worship service, verses are read from both the Bible and the Qur'an. According to Ebenezer Edohasim, a man who worshipped with the Chrislamic people, there was no friction between the two religions and both texts were accepted by the congregation as true. The people of the congregation are also free to shout out to Allah or God in worship. The Chrislamic people believe that Muhammad, Moses, and Jesus were all great prophets and we need to love them all.[2] Worship services include singing of Christian and Islamic hymns to praise God and attract his presence.[3] During the times of Christmas, Easter, Ramadan, and other Christian and Islamic religions celebrations, both are accepted and celebrated without judgment or hostility. Inside their place of worship there is an altar similar to those built by Abraham where the worshippers pray and seek the face of God. There are prayers going on here most of the day.[3] Like other religions they believe in evangelism and try to convert new members every day. In the Oke-Tude organization of Chrislam there are three different sessions or services that take place on Sunday. The first is a Muslim session, then there is a Christian session, and finally there is a joint session that Saka leads. During this he stresses the similarities between Christianity and Islamic beliefs.[2] In the other organization of Ifeoluwa, they worship on Saturday because when they worshipped on Sunday the congregation claimed that Tela Tella was showing favoritism since Christians worship on Sundays and Muslims worship on Fridays. The worship sessions on Saturday are held three times a day. Tela Tella believes in both the Qur’an and the Bible but says they are incomplete, and that is why he is writing his own book called the “Ifeoluwa Book”.[2] In Ifeoluwa there is an to annual pilgrimage to The Mount of Authority, where the people pray for three days, and other annual festivals put on by Tela Tella. Tella also leads the singing of hymns during the Saturday service. Tella claims that these hymns were revealed to him by angels Gabriel and Michael.[2]

Chrislam is syncretism.

 

[ebia]

Chrislam is syncretism.

That's not what the stuff in the OPosts talk about.

What's the source for this?

 

[isshinwhat]

That's not what the stuff in the OPosts talk about.

What's the source for this?

The OP mentions Chrislam starting in Africa, thus it is what the first post of the thread is referring to. I know a Yoruba priest and a few Nigerians who will talk openly about the syncretism that occurs in their countries. The Christians lament the situation, but the Yoruba priest, who is a former Christian, sees it as a good thing.

In Africa, Islam and Christianity are growing - and blending / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

February 13, 2009 ~ Chrislam | Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly | PBS

Chrislam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (yeah, I know, it's wikipedia, but it's early so give me a break).

 

[Tigg]

Spoken like a true north American Protestant.

LinuxUser thanks for all your posts here.

Ummm...just asking. Are Anglicans Protestant? Being Protestant is not a dirty word but curious over your crit of Linuxuser. Google here I come.

 

[benedictaoo]

Islam is an evil doctrine oposed to the Son of God.

All the more reason we should have open dialogue with them.

I do not know how else you are going to show them the error of their ways...

You can go the convert or burn in hell route but that is just about effective as beheading with a sword is...

So you tell me how we go about evangelizing Islam?

 

[benedictaoo]

LinuxUser thanks for all your posts here.

Ummm...just asking. Are Anglicans Protestant? Being Protestant is not a dirty word but curious over your crit of Linuxuser. Google here I come.

She is referring to the "Conservative right" here in America. Its really not all that compatible with Catholicism.

You know, the extremist Calvinism views who would burn witches at the stakes.

 

[benedictaoo]

So to put this into perspective... the Catholic Church has always, always taught that there can be found seeds of truth and a lot of useful good things found in just about every religion.

That does not mean these religions are valid but just that there can be some useful things we can learn...

Next, people here are speaking past each other and are not on the same page.

One is referring to what the pope and cardinals are saying and that is time to stop treating Muslim (the actual people, not the ideology) like they are a disease and begin to mend some fences in order to share *the* faith with them.

Others are talking about blending the Mass with the Qur'an and joining Christianity with Islam and making one religion out of it, a new one...

I personally do not advocate that and like, who here really wants that?

The point that Islams ideology or any false religions ideology can not be blended in with mainstream Christianity is well taken and no one disagrees.

But we can and should find what is good and useful and build a dialogue from it- like them seriously being against abortion and them having umpteen kids like Catholics do or are supposed to.

The only thing that has been challenged here is the Muslim hate.

whether we want to believe it or not, becuase we are westerners, Americans, we have be raised to think the Arabs are evil and that's just not right.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Others are talking about blending the Mass with the Qur'an and joining Christianity with Islam and making one religion out of it, a new one...

I personally do not advocate that and like, who here really wants that?

The only thing that has been challenged here is the Muslim hate.

Agree with this ^^^

 

[benelchi]

Unfortunately, this is a very prevalent movement within Christianity and involves some very well known Christian ministries. Wycliffe currently has about a half dozen or more translation projects aimed at speakers in Muslim countries where they are removing the term "Son of God" from the Scriptures used in outreach to the Muslim's. This is done because the Qaran states that God has no son, and the Muslim's find the idea of God having a son offensive.

These bibles are being used by C5 Messianic Muslim churches that teach that believe that Mohammad was the most supreme prophet and the Qaran the most holy of books, while they also accept these new translations as inspired Scripture, most reject a belief in Christ's divinity.

In the Christian Mission's field, Islamic Missions as been categorized using the C1-C6 contextualization scale.

C1 - English speaking congregations that worship in a western style.
C2 - Native langauge speaking congregations that worship in a western style.
C3 - Native langauge speaking congregations that have adopted the music style and worship style of their culture.
C4 - Native langauge speaking congregations that have adopted many of the Islamic aspects of worship i.e. eating Hillel, praying prostrate, etc.. and yet holding to orthodox Christian beliefs.
C5 - Native langauge speaking congregations that see themselves as Muslims, worship in the Islamic services with their Islamic brothers and sisters, affirm the authority and superiority of the Qaran, affirm Mohammad as the supreme prophet, and affirm Jesus as a prophet (and some versions of the bible as Scripture).
C6 - Muslim's who secretly also hold a belief in Jesus but do not share that belief with anyone.

In Islamic Missions there is what as known as the C4/C5 controversy i.e. most Christian mission organizations recognize that the theology of C5 congregations is incompatible with Christianity. Some however, are now putting all of their effort into C5 ministries, and some organizations (like Wycliffe) are divided on this issue with some strongly advocating C5 and others opposing it. Many Wycliffe missionaries are still oblivious to this movement within their own organization.

 

[ebia]

The OP mentions Chrislam starting in Africa, thus it is what the first post of the thread is referring to.

It mentions Africa, but the thinks it links to are all about dialog, education and building understanding - which happens in Africa.

 

[Lady Bug]

If both Christianity and Islam lead to the same God then I guess it doesn't matter whether or not you're a Christian or a Muslim. The paths to God are different but all's well that ends well.

 

[Michie]

If both Christianity and Islam lead to the same God then I guess it doesn't matter whether or not you're a Christian or a Muslim. The paths to God are different but all's well that ends well.

Jesus said differently.

 

[ebia]

Unfortunately, this is a very prevalent movement within Christianity and involves some very well known Christian ministries. Wycliffe currently has about a half dozen or more translation projects aimed at speakers in Muslim countries where they are removing the term "Son of God" from the Scriptures used in outreach to the Muslim's. This is done because the Qaran states that God has no son, and the Muslim's find the idea of God having a son offensive.

These bibles are being used by C5 Messianic Muslim churches that teach that believe that Mohammad was the most supreme prophet and the Qaran the most holy of books, while they also accept these new translations as inspired Scripture, most reject a belief in Christ's divinity.

In the Christian Mission's field, Islamic Missions as been categorized using the C1-C6 contextualization scale.

C1 - English speaking congregations that worship in a western style.
C2 - Native langauge speaking congregations that worship in a western style.
C3 - Native langauge speaking congregations that have adopted the music style and worship style of their culture.
C4 - Native langauge speaking congregations that have adopted many of the Islamic aspects of worship i.e. eating Hillel, praying prostrate, etc.. and yet holding to orthodox Christian beliefs.
C5 - Native langauge speaking congregations that see themselves as Muslims, worship in the Islamic services with their Islamic brothers and sisters, affirm the authority and superiority of the Qaran, affirm Mohammad as the supreme prophet, and affirm Jesus as a prophet (and some versions of the bible as Scripture).
C6 - Muslim's who secretly also hold a belief in Jesus but do not share that belief with anyone.

In Islamic Missions there is what as known as the C4/C5 controversy i.e. most Christian mission organizations recognize that the theology of C5 congregations is incompatible with Christianity. Some however, are now putting all of their effort into C5 ministries, and some organizations (like Wycliffe) are divided on this issue with some strongly advocating C5 and others opposing it. Many Wycliffe missionaries are still oblivious to this movement within their own organization.

http://www.wycliffe.net/Missiology/BibleTranslationandMission/tabid/94/Default.aspx?id=2213

 

[Memento Mori]

If both Christianity and Islam lead to the same God then I guess it doesn't matter whether or not you're a Christian or a Muslim. The paths to God are different but all's well that ends well.

A better way of looking at it: both the Jews and the Samaritans worshiped the God of Abraham, but only the Jews were appointed by Him and only the Jews worshiped Him in the full and proper sense.

 

[isshinwhat]

It mentions Africa, but the thinks it links to are all about dialog, education and building understanding - which happens in Africa.

She mentioned Chrislam in the OP. You said no one mentioned syncretism, and that is what Chrislam is. She is worried that some of the ecumenism can and has gone to far and provided links to that. She is not against dialogue, education, and building understanding. I do not know how much clearer I can make it.

 

[isshinwhat]

A better way of looking at it: both the Jews and the Samaritans worshiped the God of Abraham, but only the Jews were appointed by Him and only the Jews worshiped Him in the full and proper sense.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7576809-20/#post58223994

 

[isshinwhat]

Bible Translation and Mission

In many Muslim contexts, the term used for “Son of God” communicates none of the richness, depth of relationship and identity of Christ that we, because of our background and contexts, may perceive in the English term. In fact, the translated term often used in Muslim contexts indicates something blasphemous to Muslims and Christians alike. It communicates that God had sexual relations with Mary. And, without an understanding of the Trinity, it also communicates that there is more than one God. “Son of God” is a term of vital importance and needs to be communicated clearly and with care so that it is understood in its true meaning.

Then explain it... It's not like Christianity is a Western religion that is foreign to their perceptions.

Translation teams work to find terms that communicate accurately and fully. Terms used for “Son of God” may translate back into English as “Beloved Son who comes from of God,” “spiritual Son of God,” “God’s beloved Messiah,” “God’s one-and-only,” “God’s cherished one,” etc. In English, they may not convey quite the same meaning as the English term “Son of God” does to us in our particular context with our existing understanding of Biblical teaching. But the actual translations in the languages of the people are not in English, nor in our contexts. So we who are not mother-tongue speakers, or at least linguists trained in any of these languages, cannot determine from our language and context what specific words best communicate the true meaning in someone else’s language and context. All such translations are carefully tested by the team and consultants with the local language community to ensure that they communicate as fully as possible the intended meaning. And when used, these translations also always include explanatory notes that include the term “Son of God.”

Lord have mercy...

 

[Michie]