choosing abstinence??

[CroCop]

Nothing now, I just think its irritating when people try to diverge the discusion where there is no discussion. Its my opinion and its the reason I dont agree with pastors/priests not being able to marry, who knows what is going through someones mind when they have been deprived of sex for years and years, regardless of whatever they signed. Can we get back on subject.

Buddy, you gotta realize that when you make a comment that downs an entire group of people, and off the subject in the first place (to which I'm responding to YOU, this is a public forum afterall, you know) its not going to bode well at all. You made the original comment so now deal with it. If your too afraid or don't like someone ripping apart your biased notion, then don't post it. Your opinion or not, what you stated is not fact.

You dont know what goes on in the mind of a priest, so your statement is based on what YOU think is going on, which is not fact but speculation on your part. But just to say, the reason why priests are not to marry is because the church and the body of believers is the priest's family. The obligation of the priest is to tend to his parisheners and be the sheppard of the sheep. His dedication is to the Lord, just as Christ's dedication was to the Father and the Father alone. Did Christ need a wife, or his apostles? Their focus was solely on spirtual things and they walked by the spirit all the time, which is the same way priests live and that is by the spirit. To disagree is one thing, but to paint the brush that all priests who are "deprived" from sex and in "most cases leads to rape" is absolute foolish nonsense.

 

[Luther073082]

Wow don't fight guys.

I do belive that God wants me to get married and I certainly hope so. But I don't think God provides a spouse for everyone at the same time. Life isn't fair in that way you know? Some of us meet our spouses in school and get married at 19, I know someone who did that. For me God has not saw fit to provide that for me yet either.

I have looked up people on E-harmony.com and I met a good friend on there but thats all we've turned into. There is someone who I know in RL that I do like and I'm hoping she feels the same way. Even if she probably isn't a virgin. (But hey I havn't asked and she could surprise me)

I think rppearso that you've just kind of sounded to a lot of people like you just think fornication is sort of an ehh oh well it happens thing when a lot of us who are celibate think its a bigger sin. I have a hard time with it because a selfish part of me and the part of me where my foolish ego is contained want my future wife to be a virgin also. I mean not only do I not like the idea of having a wife thats already had sex but my ego and culture also makes me scared of being less experienced so I think thats driving a few people's opinions here but you shouldn't view it as an "ah oh well thing" The bible is pretty clear that fornication is a sin and its just not flexible and it doesn't matter if you get married at 19 or 39.

Personally I think being celibate til marriage is something that I'm partially doing for God but also doing to not take part in a growing problem of STD's and single parent families. Kind of like you can't blame a teatoddler for drunk driving, you can't blame a virgin for single parent famlies and STD's.

I just think guys we need to try and be more careful and more diplomatic about this. For those people that are waiting try not to get offended and be careful how you say thing to people who didn't wait because its easy to come off in a holier then thou approach when we should really recognize that we are all imperfect and this is just another aspect of their imperfections. Sort of a do not judge lest you be judged type thing.

For those who didn't you need to be careful about what you say too because as a virgin its easy for me to feel judged or looked down upon because so many people do it that you almost expect it anymore. And when fellow christians do it you don't know who you can trust and who you can't. There is just so much social stigma attached to being a virgin along with sinful lust and fears such as being less experienced then your partner (for guys especially) and the fear that we may die by accident or natural causes without ever enjoying sex. So with all that riding on us I just know for me its very easy to become defensive about the whole thing.

Edit: and for my 2 cents I think most priests are good people, a few bad apples shouldn't influence anyone into thinking the whole lot or even the majority are bad. I'm a Lutheran so I think not getting married and being celibate their whole lives is in no way necessary but I have to respect their devotion to what they think is Godly just as I would respect a nun's devotion to what she think's is Godly. And from my experience he is right that a priest's whole life reloves around their flock. I live near a Catholic church and the priest has his house attached to the church and I saw him out there mowing the church's lawn and taking care of the plants and the grounds around the church. My church has a volunteer who does that for us and the congregation picks up a lot of duties around the church because we don't belive in our pastor's entire lives revolving around their flock (we think it should be important to them but their family comes first) but you can just tell that this priest his whole life revolves around that church and his flock. And that really is his family.

 

[rppearso]

Wow don't fight guys.

I do belive that God wants me to get married and I certainly hope so. But I don't think God provides a spouse for everyone at the same time. Life isn't fair in that way you know? Some of us meet our spouses in school and get married at 19, I know someone who did that. For me God has not saw fit to provide that for me yet either.

I have looked up people on E-harmony.com and I met a good friend on there but thats all we've turned into. There is someone who I know in RL that I do like and I'm hoping she feels the same way. Even if she probably isn't a virgin. (But hey I havn't asked and she could surprise me)

I think rppearso that you've just kind of sounded to a lot of people like you just think fornication is sort of an ehh oh well it happens thing when a lot of us who are celibate think its a bigger sin. I have a hard time with it because a selfish part of me and the part of me where my foolish ego is contained want my future wife to be a virgin also. I mean not only do I not like the idea of having a wife thats already had sex but my ego and culture also makes me scared of being less experienced so I think thats driving a few people's opinions here but you shouldn't view it as an "ah oh well thing" The bible is pretty clear that fornication is a sin and its just not flexible and it doesn't matter if you get married at 19 or 39.

Personally I think being celibate til marriage is something that I'm partially doing for God but also doing to not take part in a growing problem of STD's and single parent families. Kind of like you can't blame a teatoddler for drunk driving, you can't blame a virgin for single parent famlies and STD's.

I just think guys we need to try and be more careful and more diplomatic about this. For those people that are waiting try not to get offended and be careful how you say thing to people who didn't wait because its easy to come off in a holier then thou approach when we should really recognize that we are all imperfect and this is just another aspect of their imperfections. Sort of a do not judge lest you be judged type thing.

For those who didn't you need to be careful about what you say too because as a virgin its easy for me to feel judged or looked down upon because so many people do it that you almost expect it anymore. And when fellow christians do it you don't know who you can trust and who you can't. There is just so much social stigma attached to being a virgin along with sinful lust and fears such as being less experienced then your partner (for guys especially) and the fear that we may die by accident or natural causes without ever enjoying sex. So with all that riding on us I just know for me its very easy to become defensive about the whole thing.

Edit: and for my 2 cents I think most priests are good people, a few bad apples shouldn't influence anyone into thinking the whole lot or even the majority are bad. I'm a Lutheran so I think not getting married and being celibate their whole lives is in no way necessary but I have to respect their devotion to what they think is Godly just as I would respect a nun's devotion to what she think's is Godly. And from my experience he is right that a priest's whole life reloves around their flock. I live near a Catholic church and the priest has his house attached to the church and I saw him out there mowing the church's lawn and taking care of the plants and the grounds around the church. My church has a volunteer who does that for us and the congregation picks up a lot of duties around the church because we don't belive in our pastor's entire lives revolving around their flock (we think it should be important to them but their family comes first) but you can just tell that this priest his whole life revolves around that church and his flock. And that really is his family.

Our pastor lives in a house that is about 20ft from the church and he does all thoes same things only he does it with a wife, he is no less good at his job because he is married but he does not have to constantly deal with the lust battle day in and day out, I think that would be a distraction for a catholic priest.

And no one is fighting some guy came on here and picked out a single line item from a disortation I wrote and decided to make an offhand remark that was not related to the topic, because he felt offended oh well

Correct me if im wrong I agree God will provide you with a wife but you have to make it happen, it takes alot of work and you have to make it a high priority, having female friends is not a bad thing but you have to be careful where you are spending your time, every hour of a day is precious and while friendships are good that friendship should not rob your time of finding a mate. I dated a fair amount before I met my wife, and if a woman was like oh well I like you but I just want to be friends I would just say sure friends are good but I would not invest any time and naturally that friendship would die but in the end I would gain a wife and that is far more important than any friendship especially a friendship with a woman that you wanted an intimate relationship with and she just wants to be friends. So I guess it comes down to priorities. Sorry I try to avoid high level non productive phylosophical speechs because they seldom produce real world results.

As far as not thinking fornication is a big deal, I dont think it is anymore of a big deal than any other sin, if you put a particular sin up on a pedastal you will become paranoid of it and it will result in inaction, I believe in failing and trying until you get it right, if you are of the fortunate few that marry another virgin as a virgin kudos, anyways I sound like a broken record, your going to do what you want to do and I hope it works out for you, just remember God is not going to do it for you, you have to put the effort in and he will bless you. I think if someone makes fun of you for being a virgin then dont spend time with them (your own parents being another issue, but I mentioned before that you can turn that situation positive by asking you mom to hook you up with someone instead of hiring a hooker), most women will be very sensitive towards your performance, you have to give thoes worries to God and move forward, if you fall get back up and try again.

I am carefull about what I say in regards to truth but I dont sugar coat. Im human so I can be wrong but if I see a clear solution and its an area where I have been I will offer my advice even if I dont think you will like it, its because I dont believe in political correctness or lieing to preserve someones feelings.

 

[Forever trying]

Our pastor lives in a house that is about 20ft from the church and he does all thoes same things only he does it with a wife, he is no less good at his job because he is married but he does not have to constantly deal with the lust battle day in and day out, I think that would be a distraction for a catholic priest.

And no one is fighting some guy came on here and picked out a single line item from a disortation I wrote and decided to make an offhand remark that was not related to the topic, because he felt offended oh well
.

I'm sorry, but I read the comment you made, and it was ripping into a denominations beliefs/dogma and the people who serve it's purpose (and a pretty generalised comment at that).

If you don't want to feel attacked or victimised, how about using some brains and discretion in the remarks you make. I'm sure the Pentecostals in here wouldn't like me to make an offhand (and off the topic) remark about the fact we hear of increasing numbers of Pentecostal preachers coming up on sex charges, or how many of them seem to be making quite a large amount of money from their "humble" work, not to mention some of the dodgey ways they seem to be drawing in the money.

If you type down something offensive about another (Christian) group, then of course you're going to get ripped into. So don't go thinking you can claim the high ground.

 

[Luther073082]

Our pastor lives in a house that is about 20ft from the church and he does all thoes same things only he does it with a wife, he is no less good at his job because he is married but he does not have to constantly deal with the lust battle day in and day out, I think that would be a distraction for a catholic priest.

You are assuming he can't avoid situations where it doesn't become a distraction. I'm celibate too and it isn't a distraction from doing what I have to do. You also have to remember that no matter if you are having sex or not its still a temptation. I just don't think that the fact that your pastor has a regluar release makes him less suseptable. Consider the popularity of pornography, prostitution, adultry etc. Lots of these are men and women who have a regular partner but still can't avoid getting something on the side.

Correct me if im wrong I agree God will provide you with a wife but you have to make it happen, it takes alot of work and you have to make it a high priority, having female friends is not a bad thing but you have to be careful where you are spending your time, every hour of a day is precious and while friendships are good that friendship should not rob your time of finding a mate. I dated a fair amount before I met my wife, and if a woman was like oh well I like you but I just want to be friends I would just say sure friends are good but I would not invest any time and naturally that friendship would die but in the end I would gain a wife and that is far more important than any friendship especially a friendship with a woman that you wanted an intimate relationship with and she just wants to be friends. So I guess it comes down to priorities. Sorry I try to avoid high level non productive phylosophical speechs because they seldom produce real world results.

I don't have any female friends that I want an intimate relationship with. My female friends are like my guy friends they are friends cause they are fun people that I like to be around. My best female friend is my former dance partner when we competed in ballroom dance in college. We where basically on a sports team of two people for 3 years so we're pretty close because of that. The only difference is that I treat them different because they are women and women have different personalities.

As far as not thinking fornication is a big deal, I dont think it is anymore of a big deal than any other sin, if you put a particular sin up on a pedastal you will become paranoid of it and it will result in inaction, I believe in failing and trying until you get it right, if you are of the fortunate few that marry another virgin as a virgin kudos, anyways I sound like a broken record, your going to do what you want to do and I hope it works out for you, just remember God is not going to do it for you, you have to put the effort in and he will bless you. I think if someone makes fun of you for being a virgin then dont spend time with them (your own parents being another issue, but I mentioned before that you can turn that situation positive by asking you mom to hook you up with someone instead of hiring a hooker), most women will be very sensitive towards your performance, you have to give thoes worries to God and move forward, if you fall get back up and try again.

First of all I wouldn't want my mom to hook me up if you paid me. Her personality is not one where I would want her to find someone cause she would like her, and I would despise her.

And besides my mom doesn't know anyone under the age of 40 that isn't related to me anyways.

With fornication I think its not only something God calls for and represents what is considered by modern society to be extreme self control to avoid it. And I think it also represents the highest ideals or romance in western culture. To be sexually active with only one person in your entire life unless she dies young? And doing so at the risk that you may never meet that person and bucking society and the world so much that they will make fun of you for it.

I also think that there are a lot of real world implications that go with sex. Children, STD's both cause a lot of pain in this world and being celibate makes you avoid both unwanted children and STD's. I personally feel sorry for each and every child of a single parent household. I grew up with my dad and mom and I'll tell you I couldn't imagine living in a single parent household.

Lastly like I said, I am on E-harmony and match.com is the most worthless waste of money ever. (No one responds to you cause 90% of the people on there arn't capable of replying to messages and of course they don't tell you that and you can't limit your search to only people who can respond to messages) I think your assuming that I don't make it a priority. And also I will remind you that most people I know met their spouses and signifcant others by accident and not in some grand search for a spouse. The modern matchmaking activities where created for people who didn't meet their spouse in high school or college. (Or immediatly after)

I am carefull about what I say in regards to truth but I dont sugar coat. Im human so I can be wrong but if I see a clear solution and its an area where I have been I will offer my advice even if I dont think you will like it, its because I dont believe in political correctness or lieing to preserve someones feelings.

Well I apprechiate it but I think your being a bit counter productive in some ways. I mean just consider the attitude of everyone else on here. They are all more or less of the attitude of wait if you havn't yet and if you have stop doing it. And they are trying to encourage eachother to do something rare in modern western socity. However your attitude is more lazzie faire which is more or less reduced to "Meh if you fornicate God will forgive you." We know that but if I go do something with that attitude then is that loving God or taking advantage of God's grace?

 

[rppearso]

You are assuming he can't avoid situations where it doesn't become a distraction. I'm celibate too and it isn't a distraction from doing what I have to do. You also have to remember that no matter if you are having sex or not its still a temptation. I just don't think that the fact that your pastor has a regluar release makes him less suseptable. Consider the popularity of pornography, prostitution, adultry etc. Lots of these are men and women who have a regular partner but still can't avoid getting something on the side.


I don't have any female friends that I want an intimate relationship with. My female friends are like my guy friends they are friends cause they are fun people that I like to be around. My best female friend is my former dance partner when we competed in ballroom dance in college. We where basically on a sports team of two people for 3 years so we're pretty close because of that. The only difference is that I treat them different because they are women and women have different personalities.



First of all I wouldn't want my mom to hook me up if you paid me. Her personality is not one where I would want her to find someone cause she would like her, and I would despise her.

And besides my mom doesn't know anyone under the age of 40 that isn't related to me anyways.

With fornication I think its not only something God calls for and represents what is considered by modern society to be extreme self control to avoid it. And I think it also represents the highest ideals or romance in western culture. To be sexually active with only one person in your entire life unless she dies young? And doing so at the risk that you may never meet that person and bucking society and the world so much that they will make fun of you for it.

I also think that there are a lot of real world implications that go with sex. Children, STD's both cause a lot of pain in this world and being celibate makes you avoid both unwanted children and STD's. I personally feel sorry for each and every child of a single parent household. I grew up with my dad and mom and I'll tell you I couldn't imagine living in a single parent household.

Lastly like I said, I am on E-harmony and match.com is the most worthless waste of money ever. (No one responds to you cause 90% of the people on there arn't capable of replying to messages and of course they don't tell you that and you can't limit your search to only people who can respond to messages) I think your assuming that I don't make it a priority. And also I will remind you that most people I know met their spouses and signifcant others by accident and not in some grand search for a spouse. The modern matchmaking activities where created for people who didn't meet their spouse in high school or college. (Or immediatly after)



Well I apprechiate it but I think your being a bit counter productive in some ways. I mean just consider the attitude of everyone else on here. They are all more or less of the attitude of wait if you havn't yet and if you have stop doing it. And they are trying to encourage eachother to do something rare in modern western socity. However your attitude is more lazzie faire which is more or less reduced to "Meh if you fornicate God will forgive you." We know that but if I go do something with that attitude then is that loving God or taking advantage of God's grace?

The last paragraph is a twist of what I actually said. What appears to be lasi fair to some is me stripping away the melodrama of a situation to get to the root problem so it can more easily be solved, I do not support foolish behavior (which is the same thing as going against God) but I also do not put a melodramatic spin on things because it adds no value. and it sounds like you really dont want a spouse rather your just going to wait for the "accident" to happen, and thats ok to each there own (so what if match.com is worthless, keep looking around until you find something that works for you), so in the mean time dont complain about it. As far as the parents thing stop contacting them if it bothers you, I havent spoken with my father in 3 years because his new wife is a smuck (misspelling on purpose), when a person is evil and unwilling to change you have to guard yourself from that less you become like them. You are only taking advantage of Gods grace if you think its ok and you make it a regular habit, and nowhere in my posts did I say that, so please keep things in context. You started this tread to get help so stop twisting my words

The ones who pipe up are being counterproductive because I have to scroll past there idiot posts to read something that relates to the topic at hand, I dont agree with all of the catholic dogma (sex scandles aside) so what thats life, if your offended maybe you should get therepy for your delicate phyci, which really is not even the topic of this tread, it was a single line item. BTW how can I feel like im getting "ripped into" its an internet forum, after I finish typing this im going to finish my ice coffee and go to mexican food with my wife, if you want to experence getting ripped into go to army basic as an E-4 sometime, if I ever saw my drill sgt again I would feel like a concentration camp survivor forgiving there guards, drills are the most sadistic twisted people I know, to be able to abuse people and then 2 min later go through the mcdonalds line and smile and converse LIKE a normal human being (which they are not)

 

[Kol]

if you want to experence getting ripped into go to army basic as an E-4 sometime, if I ever saw my drill sgt again I would feel like a concentration camp survivor forgiving there guards, drills are the most sadistic twisted people I know, to be able to abuse people and then 2 min later go through the mcdonalds line and smile and converse LIKE a normal human being (which they are not)

I think Drill Sgts are perfectly normal people. They have a job to do and they do it. Boot camp is all a mind game. Their crazed persona is all a part of it.

Bottom line is tho, if you've had sex with anyone but your spouse, then you are an adulterer. Yes, sin is sin, but I can't put...say, murder on the same line as lying. Adultery isn't something to be taken lightly. It cheapens you and greives the Spirit. If you've given up because it's too hard or "made a mistake", then you're wrong.

The blood of Christ is not a licence to sin.

 

[rppearso]

I think Drill Sgts are perfectly normal people. They have a job to do and they do it. Boot camp is all a mind game. Their crazed persona is all a part of it.

Bottom line is tho, if you've had sex with anyone but your spouse, then you are an adulterer. Yes, sin is sin, but I can't put...say, murder on the same line as lying. Adultery isn't something to be taken lightly. It cheapens you and greives the Spirit. If you've given up because it's too hard or "made a mistake", then you're wrong.

The blood of Christ is not a licence to sin.

Nazi concentration camp gaurds had a job to do to and they smiled and conversed when they were with there cohoerts, so that must mean its ok, thats what you basicly just said.

And we do the twist, and twist and twist around lalalala. You should of stoped at sin is sin because thats a fact, instead of trying to pass off your opinion as gospel. Just because sin on this earth has different worldly consequences does not make one less than the other in the eyes of God, it sounds like you are trying to minimize your own sin because its not sexual in nature and thoes that have had sexual sin in there "past" "are" "adulterers" (notice the word past and are should not go together). Do you by any chance work for the liberal media. Christ came because we mess up as humans (and live stock was running out and people were resorting to doves and then just some grain when there sin had killed off all there live stock lol (this is a joke by the way so no one plucks out this line item comment to spawn a whole new "I cant cope with reality thread"), that probably is not to far from the truth these days), you take that fact for granted when you think your sin is ok to repeat because of Christ, not because you mess up. You should also be careful with "was" and "are" because it makes you sound holier than thou and your pride swells in your posts.

Im just being real, if someone wants to take offence thats there call and its not going to hurt my feelings. If you can prove something I say is wrong (and not just something you disagree with for whatever personal reasons you have) I will admit it, but im not going to compromise truth to spare someones feelings.

 

[Kol]

...as long as we keep it real.

 

[Gam3rG1rl4Chr1st]

Wow. That's all I gotta say about the previous posts. I'd like to take a few verses from the Bible......so we can see what the Bible has to say about this subject. I particularly like 1 Corinthians, because Paul has some good thoughts on the subject of sexual sin and marriage and abstinance etc. I'm going to quote the New Living Translation Bible because it's easiest for me to understand.

First the bad news: 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says:

"Don't you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, abusers, and swindlers-none of these will have a share in the Kingdom of God. "

But if we go on to verse 11:

"There was a time when some of you were just like that, but now your sins have been washed away, and you have been set apart for God. You have been made right with God because of what the Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of our God have done for you."

Yes, all sins are equal in the sight of God. But not all sins have as many repurcussions as sexual sin. Here are some more of Paul's words:

1 Corinthians 6:18-20

"Run away from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body. Or don't you know that your body is the tmple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself, for God bought you with a high price. So you must honor God with your body."

Paul then goes on to talk about marriage and abstaining from premarital sex. 1 Corinthians 7:1-2 pretty much sums up Paul's view on the subject.

"Now about the questions you asked in your letter. Yes, it is good to live a celibate life. But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband."

Now, some might say that this verse implies that everyone should have a spouse. (and that includes Catholic priests) This, however, is not true. Hear more of Paul's words.

1 Corinthians 7:7
I wish everyone could get along without marrying, just as I do. But we are not all the same. God gives some the gift of marriage, and to others he gives the gift of singleness.

And then he talks about it again in 1 Corinthians 7:32-34

In everything you do, I want you to be free from the concerns of this life. An unmarried man can spend his time doing the Lord's work and thinking how to please him. But a married man can't do that so well. He has to think about his earthly responsibilities and how to please his wife. His interests are divided. In the same way, a woman who is no longer married or has never been married can be more devoted to the Lord in body and in spirit, while the married woman must be concerned about her earthly responsibilities and how to please her husband.

Paul then goes on to sum up what he is basically saying. 1 Corinthians 7:35-38

I am saying this for your benefit, not to place restrictions on you. I want you to do whatever will help you serve the Lord best, with as few restrictions as possible. But if a man thinks he ought to marry his fiancee because he has trouble controlling his passions and time is passing, it is all right; it is not a sin. Let them marry. But if he has decided firmly not to marry and there is no urgency and he can control his passion, he does well not to marry. So the person who marries does well, and the person who doesn't marry does even better.

There are four key things that Paul says in this chapter of 1 Corinthians that pretty much sums up God's view on this subject.

1. Do not commit sexual sin by lusting or by having relations with another person before marriage.

2. If you want to marry, that's fine. That's a good thing to do because by doing it, you are glorifying the Lord in your marriage. Stay faithful to your husband or wife.

3. If you decide not to get married and can live without lusting and can control yourself, then that's fine. You can better commit yourself to God that way.

4. If you have sinned......you can be forgiven!

Paul himself was single and he was celibate. Did he struggle with that sometimes? Probably. He said himself that the world is full of sexual sin. But he also said that because we have confessed our sins, then we are forgiven. However, just because we are forgiven doesn't mean that we should purposefully continue in our sin. I say "purposefully" because that implies that we thought about it beforehand and decided to do it anyways. If we slip up and sin, that's expected. God never expected us to be perfect. BUT! We should never deliberately go out and sin. Christ's blood is not a green light to go out and sin. That's not what Christ's sacrifice was about. /rant over. hehehe.

 

[Kol]

Really though, *in my opinion*, celibacy until purity is what separates the boys from the men. Sex is something we're all tempted with. It's the ultimate physical pleasure, and as such the perfect last battle between our spiritual selves and our corrupted earth selves.

"Go forth now, and conquer the frontiers of thy self."
-Ultima: Quest of the Avatar

Lol, this journey against sin is the only true, worthy purpose to life. Oh how many fall dead along the way! So to all of you here who have not dropped dead, I salute you.

It's not that I have a holier-than-thou attitude, tho you can read me however you wish. People tend to assume that anyway...I more consider myself a student of great men than one aspiring to "greatness" myself. I'm not sure I would consider myself completely successful in this anyway. But what I'm saying is that sex drive provides the greatest opportunity to fight against ourselves, and that fight is what I'm so adoring.

Luther, I have so much respect for you. It makes me very proud to know that there are people like you in this world. Idk...Godbless.

 

[shadistarr]

This has been a very enlightening thread to read. Luther stay strong bro, and don't give into the idea that you're parents aren't proud of you. Even if they don't understand your lifestyle, they love you. I recently discovered I may have a similar issue with my mom. Just keep following the Lord and He will Bless you.

As for the original poster. Stay strong in the Lord and lean not on you're own understanding! God will bless you for your decision to pursue Him over your desires.

 

[rppearso]

Really though, *in my opinion*, celibacy until purity is what separates the boys from the men. Sex is something we're all tempted with. It's the ultimate physical pleasure, and as such the perfect last battle between our spiritual selves and our corrupted earth selves.

"Go forth now, and conquer the frontiers of thy self."
-Ultima: Quest of the Avatar

Lol, this journey against sin is the only true, worthy purpose to life. Oh how many fall dead along the way! So to all of you here who have not dropped dead, I salute you.

It's not that I have a holier-than-thou attitude, tho you can read me however you wish. People tend to assume that anyway...I more consider myself a student of great men than one aspiring to "greatness" myself. I'm not sure I would consider myself completely successful in this anyway. But what I'm saying is that sex drive provides the greatest opportunity to fight against ourselves, and that fight is what I'm so adoring.

Luther, I have so much respect for you. It makes me very proud to know that there are people like you in this world. Idk...Godbless.

I think thats fine if you want to remain celibate, but you do think you are holier than thou, its not just my perception it should clue you in that im not the first one who said it. Hey guess what, you have fallen dead along the way as well becasue you are not Christ. Sex is the ultimate physical pleasure that God invented and intended for us to enjoy with our spouse, not to remain celebate so you can lord it over people. Maybe you have a mental disorder (not because you want to remain pure but becasue you tout it like your a super hero).

And the OP does not want to remain celebate he wants to get married so I was offering suggestions towards that path, if he wants to be celebate his whole life he can not get married (or fornicate), I could not do that I would eventually fornicate so it is better for me to marry.

 

[Kol]

???

A super-hero with a mental disorder?


It's not that I'm holier or better. It's that you want to make it a C or B- if someone has become an adulterer. So it should "clue me in" that others tend to say I put myself on a pedestal? Misperceptions, however often repeated, don't make something true.

GamingGirl gave some excellent scriptures. Why have you not responded to her?

I think thats fine if you want to remain celibate,

I don't want to.

but you do think you are holier than thou, its not just my perception it should clue you in that im not the first one who said it.

I *really* don't think I'm in any position to be better or holier than anyone. If I made out a list of all my sins, you'd know that I'm not in any position for that line of thinking. But I shall not confess my sins to you.

Hey guess what,

What?

you have fallen dead along the way as well becasue you are not Christ.

Okay, but I'd pretty much already figured that one out. Still, I suppose it never hurts to point out the obvious.

Sex is the ultimate physical pleasure that God invented and intended for us to enjoy with our spouse, not to remain celebate so you can lord it over people.

I'm lost...who has stated anything to the contrary? No one's trying to king themselves with celibacy, except maybe Paul in those verses GamingGirl mentioned.

Maybe you have a mental disorder (not because you want to remain pure but becasue you tout it like your a super hero).

That's just being mean and you know it. There is no reason to suggest I "have a mental disorder". That's out of line, childish, and petty. If you are any kind of mature, sensible man, you should be ashamed.

I demand an apology.

And the OP does not want to remain celebate he wants to get married so I was offering suggestions towards that path, if he wants to be celebate his whole life he can not get married (or fornicate), I could not do that I would eventually fornicate so it is better for me to marry.

I don't know where celibacy was mentioned as a desired choice for anyone here...???

Anyway, dude, chill. You're making a fool of yourself. Now, apologize for suggesting I have a mental disorder, let me apologize to you if I've said anything out of line myself (if I have, I'm sorry for it), and just relax. I believe the OP and everyone else here understands your point of view on the matter.

 

[Kol]

Here's something written by one of my heroes, the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius:

----------

Body, soul, and mind-the body for sensations, the soul for the impulse to act, the mind for guiding principles. Yet even the cattle in the field feel sensations; even wild beasts, perverts, a Phalaris, or a Nero are attached to the puppet strings of impulse; even men who deny the existence of God, betray their country, and engage in shameful practices behind closed doors possess minds to guide them.

Having all this in common with the likes of these, there remains only one distinguishing mark of the good man; his love and delight in the thread of his own destiny and his refusal to soil or upset with an orgy of sensations the divine spirit dwelling within him, where a serene peace reigns and God is obeyed and no untrue words are spoken and no unjust deeds performed. Even if everyone else questions his ability to live so simply, modestly, and happily, he doesn't let their doubts disturb him or divert him from the road leading to his life's destination, which he intends to reach pure and peaceful and prepared to take his leave in unforced allegiance to his fate.

----------

Living your life in love and respect of your true nature is the only way really worth living. I believe that by doing this, you are obeying the commands-their purposes coincide. Loving God above all others and loving all others as yourself *is* being true to your own spirit.

:: I love Marcus Aurelius.

http://www.amazon.com/Emperors-Handbook-New-Translation-Meditations/dp/0743233832

 

[Gam3rG1rl4Chr1st]

I don't intend to remain celibate all my life either. I want to get married and become "one" with my husband as God intended. But I'm not going to have sex before marriage. That doesn't mean I think I'm holier than anyone else. I mean gosh....as it's been said, all sins are equal in God's eyes, right? It just means that in this aspect of life I'm going to follow God's Word on the subject.

And that's really what this thread is about anyways. Not about being a celibate person and never have sex ever. I believe (and please correct me OP if I'm wrong) that the OP was asking our opinions on having sex before marriage. And I am going to say that there are second chances. Just because someone was sexually active before marriage doesn't mean they are "worse" people. But it is a sin and if they recognize that and repent and then do their darndest not to sin in that way again (as you would with any sin, regardless if it's sexual in nature or not), then that's always a good thing, isn't it? And really there's no reason for any of us to start insulting people. Some of the comments I've read are pretty uncalled for. But anyways. I'm tired, it's 3:40 AM. I have no idea why I'm still up so I'm going to bed. rofl.

 

[soulsearching1]

Just adding my $0.02 here. I did not grow up Christian. I'm not a virgin. I've been in a relationship with a guy that I truly loved and honestly, I am not really all that ashamed of having had sex with him. I get why God says it's wrong and I don't plan on having sex again until marriage. (Sometimes I'm shocked to hear those words come out of my mouth) My last boyfriend was a Christian, and I was not when we started dating. He was not a virgin either, as he had not stayed in the faith from about junior high until age 25 (he's 29). I don't want to sound ignorant, but since he never brought up the whole "we shouldn't have sex before marriage", I didn't think that all Christians necessarily followed this rule to the letter- I know at least one or two Christians who are not virgins. Anyway, we had sex because he didn't tell me where his boundaries were - he could have stopped me, could have told me the truth. I would have been more than happy to discuss it with him. But he didn't. And then later on, when he was having a guilty conscience, he asked me to if I would consider stopping. I turned it over in my head for 3 days and finally decided that because I loved him, I would stop. After that, nothing really changed for him- he would try to put the moves on me, and I would try to fend him off. Then he'd pull a guilt-trip, saying things like "don't you love me anymore" or "don't you find me attractive". He made me feel like crap- like it was my fault that he didn't have enough self-control.

That being said, I think that if you decided to STOP having sex, that you and your SO need to be very clear as where each of you stand. Guys tend to be very bad at this, so be clear with each other.

My biggest fear is that I hope that whomever I marry does not hold it against me. I'm going to tell them the truth, or at least they'd be able to figure it out, once I say "I didn't become a Christian until I was almost 26".

 

[zerbetron]

All right, let me start first by saying that Im a new Christian too. Only about 6 months in. And I'll be quite honest...sex was deffinitely something I struggled with in the past.

I'm not proud of it....in fact sometimes when I think back on all the stupid things I've done to myself and allowed others to do to me it makes me sick. But I have commited my life to Christ, and so that in itself means I desire change.

We are all sinners, we all fall short of God's will for us. But that is what makes us human. Its our repentence, and our DESIRE for change, to be better...that makes us Christians.

In response to the point of this thread. Sex is something we will ALL struggle with. I'm currently engaged, my fiance is a non-believer, and when I came to God, I told him the sex had to stop.

Let me just clarify he was LESS than thrilled. We live together in an apartment, we share a bed, we share financial responsibilties...in fact we are married except for a piece of paper from my state that says so. These were all his arguements as to WHY having sex was ok. He went on to say that we've been intimate a thousand times over, we've been seeing eachother exclusively for years. He argued that we love eachother, and that God intended for us to express that love physically.

But its clear. You are supposed to wait until marriage. I'm not a virgin...and I'll never be able to give the gift of my pure body to my husband. That makes me really sad. But it makes me happy to know that by my decesion to wait until marriage, that God will bless that union.

Its not an easy choice, the right ones seldom are. But if we can 'die to self' and conquer our desires, than we are living up the standard that GOD sets for us. Of course its easy to bring faith down to a level we are comfortable with. In my short journey with God I've found people only believe as much of the bible as they follow.

heres a good analogy.

You know how when you have a really REALLY tough exam, and to study you tale off and when you take it, you ace it....you know how amazing that feels.

Its the same with celibacy, ESPECIALLY for those who are not virgins. God forgives us. And when we abstain from those things we desire....its like acing that exam. It truly does bring joy. Because you know in your heart you are STRONGER than your desires. You know nothing can steal your faith, not even your body. And you know that you right with the Lord. The joy in life is not in what comes easy, its in what we earn through blood, sweat and tears. The joy in life are the rules. They put us on a higher playing feild.

I've stubbled, I've messed up, and I'll continue to do so. I'll never be perfect no matter how hard I try. But thats whats so great about being a Christian. If we really try, God forgives us for our mistakes, and he ALWAYS picks us up when we fall. And next time we take that test...it might not be so hard.

<3
z

 

[Luther073082]

Thanks for your encouragement everyone, it is very helpful I think if we can encourage eachother in this.

I hope I can remain celibate as God has called me to do. I however don't make any guarentees on anything other then I will try.

Another bother that really bugs me is the idea of possibly marrying someone who hasn't been celibate their whole lives. But I think thats just some sort of selfish ego thing about being the only man she's been with that I'm trying hard now to leave behind. And I think part of it is a fear of having less experience then my wife.

Really I don't think it should matter, would I or should I love a person any less just because she has a history. God calls men to love our wives like Jesus loved the church. The church has a long history of persecution, crusades, torture etc, would that make Jesus love the church any less? I assume and belive that it would not. In a slightly related note would we love our family less for their sins? Most of my cousins fornicated and they grew up in the church, and yet I did not grow up in the church and did not fornicate. Although I'm saddened by their hypocracy I still love them all the same.

So I think I should spend some time asking God to help me leave not only my ego but also my fears behind. Self control is something he has thus far given me and I pray that he continues to do so, but my fears still haunt me. Fear of death before fully enjoying my body, fear of shame and rejection, fear of ridicule, and fear of not being good enough. My ego still tries to lord over me as well. May I learn to throw them away with yesterday's trash.

 

[rppearso]

"celibacy until purity is what separates the boys from the men"

So you are saying people who have had premarital sex are boys, but not liers thiefs or cheaters.

"Lol, this journey against sin is the only true, worthy purpose to life. Oh how many fall dead along the way! So to all of you here who have not dropped dead, I salute you."

So either you are saluting Christ and no one else, or you are implying "sexual sin" is the only sin you drop dead from, which is incorrect because all sin is equal.

And this is what makes you sound holier than thou.

I will not appologize to you, because suggesting a mental disorder where there is evidence of the disorder is not an insult, its just calling a spade a spade.

"A super-hero with a mental disorder?"

People who think there superman or spider man have mental disorders. You think that because your a virgin it makes you into the likeness of a superhero, and people who think there super heros are mental.