Chinese Magi ???

[The Righterzpen]

Could some of the Magi who came looking for Christ at His birth; have been from China?

(I'll get to this question in a minute - first though):

I came across a blog post the other day that contained a very interesting piece of historical information. (Which I will link the blog post at the end here.) The subject of the post was the darkening of the sun and moon at the crucifixion and one of the commenters posted a historical text of an observation Chinese astronomers had made. Chinese astronomers (who are believed to be much more diligent at accurately recording astronomical events - or at least according to the standards of modern scientists) had recorded what they'd called a "double eclipse"; wherein both the sun and the moon had been obscured.

They had recoded this event to have happened between 5 PM and 8 PM their time. Which based on time zone differences, would have been between noon and 3 PM in Jerusalem. They had recorded that the sun was darkened (which was assumed to have been from an eclipse) but they could not find the moon. So they recorded the moon as being in eclipse also, but had no explanation for this event based on where the sun and moon "should have" (or had) been in the sky.

Now several modern people (scientists / historians / whomever) have tried to figure out where this event would fit historically (trying to pinpoint western ancient history with eastern ancient history). They have this phenomena having happened somewhere in the proximity of 31 A.D. Yet they base this assumption on what they could "peg" of predicable solar eclipses.

The problem though is that the darkening of the sun at the crucifixion could not have been caused by a solar eclipse because the Passover always falls on a full moon. If the moon's orbit around the earth was on the same plane as the earth's orbit around the sun; then we'd have two "new moons" a month. So based on the positions of the three "planetary" bodies in space, it would have been impossible for the moon to have caused a solar eclipse during the crucifixion.

So taking that into consideration; we can understand that we would not be confined to a year where a predictable solar eclipse would have happened. The year of the crucifixion was 33 AD. We know this because that is the only year of any possible candidates where Passover fell from a Thursday into Friday.

Historically too, there are other sources that mention these things. (One being a Roman historian (Tertullian) who did state this darkness of the sun was recorded in official Roman records.) Of course these records have not survived to today; yet are referenced by other church historians in the following couple of centuries.

Now we could get into prophecy and eschatology with verses such as: "immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun darkened ...." concerning the darkening of the sun and the moon at the crucifixion; but that would be the subject of a whole other thread. This thread is about Chinese magi.

Now the record of this astronomical event is part of a larger document that speaks of a "king", "sin" and "death". The general interpretation of this document is usually connected with the dynasty that was ruling in China at the time. Now I can't read Chinese, so I'm only relying on other's translation. So what the document is saying about this "king", "sin" and "death"; I have no knowledgable context of Chinese history to compare it to. (I'm not expert in ancient Chinese history.)

Yet if the Chinese astronomers (or whomever wrote this document to begin with) connected this astronomical event to the "death" of a "king", which had something to do with "sin"; how would they have known about the crucifixion? Unless..... there were magi from China (or at lest of close enough proximity that the Chinese would have learned this information) who'd come some nearly 40 years earlier looking for the Messiah.

Now personally, I would not doubt that there may have been some magi who'd come from as far as China. The Biblical text speaks of both some who "come from the east" as well as other's who "saw his star in the east" (meaning those travelers would have been coming from Europe, Africa or both). So here we have multiple groups of travelers from diverse lands all converging on Jerusalem at the same time looking for the King.

Darkness at Noon » Undivided Looking

 

[Joyous Song]

Unfortunately, even f all you say is true Chinese astronomers would have still needed a reason to travel to Bethlehem. They were also not the only ancient astronomers and the magi come from the religion of Zoroaster, who taught and live long ago in Medea and Persia. The Rabbis say He was Balaam which means Foreigner. The Korites of Iran are the followers of his religion today and was the main faith of most Muslim before Mohamid.

Balaam made a series of prophecies including one of the Star that would rise when the Messiah was to come. Then after teaching Balak to get his woman to marry Judah so as to destroy Israel he headed home. We Believe those prophecies went with him and it was these prophecies that sent those magi (which means priest) were often the same group that watch and recorded star events. These would also have access to those Jewish prophecies so as to make the one to one correlation.

Still its not strange HaShem would have Chinese astrologers see Christ's death in the heavens, whether they understood it then or not, just as Ireland has a story that a Druid priest told a Irish king, A righteous man of G-d was being murdered at that moment and the king got so angry he had a stroke and died!

I believe these stories were seeds for the Gospel, that would come into full fruit when the body we sent out.

 

[Rachel20]

Balaam made a series of prophecies including one of the Star that would rise when the Messiah was to come. ... We Believe those prophecies went with him and it was these prophecies that sent those magi

Or perhaps they originated with Daniel instructing the magi in Babylon with him. Daniel was given the exact date of the Lords appearance as King in Jerusalem (by Gabriel), and he was given the title Rab-mag in Daniel 5:11 (chief of the magi)

 

[Joyous Song]

Or perhaps they originated with Daniel instructing the magi in Babylon with him. Daniel was given the exact date of the Lords appearance as King in Jerusalem (by Gabriel), and he was given the title Rab-mag in Daniel 5:11 (chief of the magi)

or maybe both. Zoraster brought them info to watch the stars and Daniel to watch for the Moshiach. Isn't that cool?

 

[FireDragon76]

Magoi in Greek culture referred to Persian priests.

 

[dwb001]

Magoi in Greek culture referred to Persian priests.

But there are so many other factors that point to the wise guys not being from Persia.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Well, I think it's interesting that we know there was more than one set of "magi". The term "magos" is translated in Acts 13:6 as "sorcerer". And just like "cherubim" had different application from Babylonian to Persian to Greek to Egyptian; I'm sure "magi" did too.

Now I'm going off memory here in depictions of "cherubim"; but historically it is said that the curtain in the temple (post Babylonian captivity) had "Babylonian style" lion / human winged figures on it. Now allegedly the Greek version of this was the phenix and the Egyptian version was the sphinx. I don't remember off the top of my head what the Persian version was? But all these cultures had their own translation of this concept of "cherubim". (Victorian (origin in Renaissance) "cherubs" are chubby little winged children you see on tombs of babies. LOL)

Also, interestingly! Archeology has concluded that the Chinese got their ability to make life sized statues from the Greeks. (Thus the terra-cotta army statues; which I believe were constructed about 200 B.C) So we know there was cultural exchange that spanned that large of an area. (From the Middle East to east Asia.) Which certainly also could have (and probably did) include religious information from Babylonian / Persian sources; which if this traveled that far east; conceivably could have traveled similar distance west; thus we have the story about the Druid priest and the Irish king.

just as Ireland has a story that a Druid priest told a Irish king, A righteous man of G-d was being murdered at that moment and the king got so angry he had a stroke and died!

This would be consistent with the notion of the gospel going into all the world. (Every kindred, tribe, tongue and nation.) Add to this that there is some evidence that the Mayans too may have recognized a "comet event" (what appeared to be a comet) "coming from the earth". (The Romans and Josephus also recorded this event. Josephus called it "the sword of the Lord" but sated it had happened during the siege of Jerusalem. The Romans had only recorded that this "comet type event" had occurred in the "era of the dawning of Jesus whom some call Christ".

That event, historically I think was the ascension. We see the "cloud" / "pillar of fire" motif back in Exodus too. There was the presence of God between the Israelites and the Egyptian army that one group saw as "a cloud" and the other saw as "a pillar of fire". Well the apostles describe Jesus ascending in a cloud. (What did the rest of the world see? A pillar of fire? Thus the description of what appears to be a "comet coming from the earth".

Interestingly the Mayans associated this "comet event" to another far more ancient historical event where the planets in the solar system got all "out of alignment; which wreaked havoc with the tides / oceans / water on the earth (.e. Noah's flood).

Now genetics has been able to trace the origin of the Native American populations from where the European / Asian plates meet and later far eastern Asian ancestry. At last of the ones who migrated into the Americas from Siberia. There's evidence that there was most likely humans who were in the American continents before that. (Most likely from the days of Pelag post flood.)

Now interestedly we also have some sparse evidence of Minoans (sp?) who were famous mariners from southern Europe actually getting to North America B.C. We know later the Vikings did; and so did subsequent Scandinavian sailors. So could there have also been "Native American Magi" too? Theoretically that's possible. And that would "jive" with the Biblical idea of the redemption plan is for all the peoples of the earth.

But as far as any "hard archeological evidence" of "how far whom may have come from where" when Christ was born; we'll probably never find. But if it is actually historically true that "magi" did represent "every kindred, tribe, tongue and nation" That would be quite fascinating!