Child abuse

[katautumn]

I guess it really depends on how you look at it. I don't tell others how to raise their children and I don't expect anyone here to tell me what I should consider abuse and what I should not. There is a difference between one quick swat on the bottom (which I consider as the last resort and never with anything other than a hand through clothes) and taking a strap to a child. There is a difference between a little tap on the hand when your child is over there trying to stick a fork into an electrical outlet and repeatedly beating a child's backside with a hairbrush leaving whelps and bruises.

 

[katautumn]

did you read the links I posted about that other school? that was a private school too and while people thought that the school was find and was only using "corporal punishment" the kids were actually getting raped, tortured, beaten, molested, etc.

No, I didn't read the links. My computer was running too slow and the page wouldn't load. Here is my question, were the parents privy to this sexual abuse and torture? If not, then I don't see how they can be held responsible for what happened at the school. Now, if they did know and consented to it or simply turned a blind eye to their children, that is abuse.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

I guess it really depends on how you look at it. I don't tell others how to raise their children

But you do. You'd have a big problem if you knew that your neighbour beat his children with a cane.

and I don't expect anyone here to tell me what I should consider abuse and what I should not.

No? Then you think you have no right to tell me that I should consider it abuse if I whip my child with a belt?

There is a difference between one quick swat on the bottom (which I consider as the last resort and never with anything other than a hand through clothes) and taking a strap to a child.

Of course there's a difference. There's a difference between taking a strap to a child and beating him with a stick, too. So what? They're all physical abuse...some are just worse than others.

There is a difference between a little tap on the hand when your child is over there trying to stick a fork into an electrical outlet and repeatedly beating a child's backside with a hairbrush leaving whelps and bruises.

See above. Of course there is. So what?

 

[sethad]

No, I didn't read the links. My computer was running too slow and the page wouldn't load. Here is my question, were the parents privy to this sexual abuse and torture? If not, then I don't see how they can be held responsible for what happened at the school. Now, if they did know and consented to it or simply turned a blind eye to their children, that is abuse.

I'm not sure how many parents didnt know about it, one of the articles said that one of the victims tried to tell his parents but they wouldnt believe him and kept sending him back anyway.

but its more about the school, not the parents. same with the case that you cited...if the school was using corporate punishment and doing much more then that its abuse. and I dont blame the kids getting taken away because in cases like that, you just never know.

 

[Harlan Norris]

If you knew of a family where the children are emotionally and physically abused on a regular basis, but which is otherwise a happy home, would you do anything about this?

Is it the case that sometimes doing the 'right thing' is not actually the best thing to do?

Well that depends,If they are being molested by one or both parents or beaten rather than spanked.I'd have to say yes,definately call child protective services and get those kids out of there.It's a judgement call no doubt about it.Anything stronger than time out looks like child abuse to most these days.However a spanking applied when needed is just as important as a hug when needed.

 

[sethad]

Well that depends,If they are being molested by one or both parents or beaten rather than spanked.I'd have to say yes,definately call child protective services and get those kids out of there.It's a judgement call no doubt about it.Anything stronger than time out looks like child abuse to most these days.However a spanking applied when needed is just as important as a hug when needed.

and she mentioned emotional abuse as well. as i said before abuse is abuse whether it be physical abuse, emotional abuse, or sexual abuse. if anyone so much as suspects abuse they should report it.

I often wonder how many people when I was a kid suspected abuse but then though "nah...he probably isnt being abused and I dont want to do anything to hurt the family"

 

[katautumn]

But you do. You'd have a big problem if you knew that your neighbour beat his children with a cane.

That's not telling someone how to raise their children. It's not appropriate to strike any living thing with a cane - child, animal or adult. I would do the same thing if I saw my neighbor hit their dog with an object. I would report it. That doesn't mean I'm telling someone how to raise their child. There are laws. It is not against the law to spank a child with your hand on their bottom. There are laws against striking animals, children, or adults with a cane. In that situation I would report it because I could not live with myself if someone were to be seriously injured or even worse killed at the hands of their abuser.

No? Then you think you have no right to tell me that I should consider it abuse if I whip my child with a belt?

Whipping a child with an object is abuse. That is not my personal opinion. That is the simple truth.

Of course there's a difference. There's a difference between taking a strap to a child and beating him with a stick, too. So what? They're all physical abuse...some are just worse than others.

So what do you not consider abuse? How do you feel parents should raise their children, children who do not learn right from wrong until someone instructs them? I knew a woman who considered abuse to ever tell a child "no" because that causes them to have negative emotions. Instead, she would try and reason with her three year old when he tried to drink Windex from the bottle. I'm not saying he should have been spanked, but would it be abuse to firmly tell that child "no no!" when he reached for the Windex?

I'm not sure how many parents didnt know about it, one of the articles said that one of the victims tried to tell his parents but they wouldnt believe him and kept sending him back anyway.

but its more about the school, not the parents. same with the case that you cited...if the school was using corporate punishment and doing much more then that its abuse. and I dont blame the kids getting taken away because in cases like that, you just never know.

If those parents did know this was going on and simply ignored it then they are neglecting their child's safety and did deserve to be punished by the authorities.

But I don't think if something bad happens to a child at school and the parents have absolutely no idea the child should be taken from the home. I mean, corporal punishment is not allowed in public schools. Does that mean if my child was being molested by a teacher in a public school and showed no outward signs of it I am abusing my child because I am simply not aware?

 

[sethad]

If those parents did know this was going on and simply ignored it then they are neglecting their child's safety and did deserve to be punished by the authorities.

But I don't think if something bad happens to a child at school and the parents have absolutely no idea the child should be taken from the home. I mean, corporal punishment is not allowed in public schools. Does that mean if my child was being molested by a teacher in a public school and showed no outward signs of it I am abusing my child because I am simply not aware?

Of course not, when your child is at school the school is responsible for your child's safety. so then the school might be up to question if they had hired a known pedophile. however if they had no reason to suspect the abuse either, thats another thing.

 

[praying]

If you knew of a family where the children are emotionally and physically abused on a regular basis, but which is otherwise a happy home, would you do anything about this?

Is it the case that sometimes doing the 'right thing' is not actually the best thing to do?

How can a home be happy if the children are being abused? The two do not compute for me.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

That's not telling someone how to raise their children.

Of course it is. You're just relying on someone else to do the enforcing for you.

It's not appropriate to strike any living thing with a cane - child, animal or adult. I would do the same thing if I saw my neighbor hit their dog with an object.

And then you'd be telling them how to keep their dog.

I would report it. That doesn't mean I'm telling someone how to raise their child.

Of course it does. That's EXACTLY what your'e doing.

There are laws. It is not against the law to spank a child with your hand on their bottom. There are laws against striking animals, children, or adults with a cane.

So what? That has nothing to do with the issue.

In that situation I would report it because I could not live with myself if someone were to be seriously injured or even worse killed at the hands of their abuser.

Which, again, has nothing to do with the issue.

Whipping a child with an object is abuse. That is not my personal opinion. That is the simple truth.

Spanking a child is abuse. That is the simple truth.

And, as an aside, whether or not whipping a child with an object is abuse, it is still your opinion.

So what do you not consider abuse?

Using physical punishment on a child is physically abusive.

How do you feel parents should raise their children, children who do not learn right from wrong until someone instructs them?

ALL children do not learn right from wrong until someone instructs them.

I knew a woman who considered abuse to ever tell a child "no" because that causes them to have negative emotions. Instead, she would try and reason with her three year old when he tried to drink Windex from the bottle. I'm not saying he should have been spanked, but would it be abuse to firmly tell that child "no no!" when he reached for the Windex?

Once again, irrelevant. We're not talking about reasoning with children, or talking to them. We're talking about physically striking them. That's abusive.

 

[KinderBee]

If you knew of a family where the children are emotionally and physically abused on a regular basis, but which is otherwise a happy home, would you do anything about this?

Is it the case that sometimes doing the 'right thing' is not actually the best thing to do?

I would get involved if I knew for a fact that the children were being abused. If I saw a pretty bad bruise on the child I would try to find out more information before I assume it's because of abuse. Emotional Abuse is just as painful but is harder to detect.

 

[Gracchus]

If I strike an adult, except in self-defense, it is battery, an offense under the law. So, why should it be OK to strike a child?

 

[sethad]

I'm gonna say this again:

Because I notice that so many people hesitate to report anything. I wonder how many people when I was a kid wondered if I was being abused then didnt report it thinking "oh...I'm probably wrong and I dont want to risk hurting the family. what if there isnt any abuse? its probably just my imagination"

if one person, just ONE had actually reported anything then I would have gotten out of that hell-hole alot sooner

 

[mark53]

There is enough violence in our society now. If to get people to "do as they are told" we have to resort to hitting the other person(s), what are we coming to! It must then be okay to hit one's spouse (see another thread which is out of control!), a pastor / elder hitting their members, bosses hitting their workers, sports coaches and players hitting each other, police hitting offenders, etc. The trouble IS, this IS happening in all of these areas and THIS IS WRONG!

 

[ebia]

Whipping a child with an object is abuse. That is not my personal opinion. That is the simple truth.

This is one of those irregular verbs, isn't it:
He is incorrect.
You have an opinion.
I know the truth.

 

[sethad]

and this is the point where the thread derails and moves onto pointless bickering and picking apart posts...

 

[seebs]

If you knew of a family where the children are emotionally and physically abused on a regular basis, but which is otherwise a happy home, would you do anything about this?

Is it the case that sometimes doing the 'right thing' is not actually the best thing to do?

Well, yeah, I'd do something. You say "otherwise" a happy home? "Apart from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

 

[Skydancing]

How can a home be happy if kids are being abused, not possible? One has a duty to report the abusers to the relevant authorities, no ifs or buts about it!

 

[Cat59]

If you knew of a family where the children are emotionally and physically abused on a regular basis, but which is otherwise a happy home, would you do anything about this?

Is it the case that sometimes doing the 'right thing' is not actually the best thing to do?

I face this dilemma all the time, where I can see children at risk from the situation they are in but also have the knowledge of where they might end up if I intervene. But I think the more serious consequences that come with a decision or lack of it, the more seriously it needs to be considered in possession of all the facts, including what the children themselves are actually saying. Hence I think there is an obligation on people to, at the very least, discuss this in an anonymised form with a professional. In the UK, the NSPCC have hotlines you can ring and without giving details, tell someone what's going on and they can advise you what, in their opinion, is best to do.
Because, as many others have said, no child is truly happy who is being abused. And if they appear happy, it is because their perception of what is good, pleasurable and right to accept is being grossly peverted.
Cat

 

[Skydancing]

I have heard of a family in the UK where the children were being abused because the father, a pastor, believed in the injuction, 'spare the rod and spoil the child', he beat his daughters on a regular basis. (That is illegal in the UK) The church sacked him, and when the kids' school complained about the bruises the kids had, he removed them from school to home school them. I believe the social services were alerted, and hopefully they have been removed from this monster's grasp.