Check in thread (6)

[Pepperoni]

. . . my face is to scary to be seen in public . . .

Like Kay, I disagree.

If mine can, than anyone's can . . .

 

[cristianna]

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[WashedClean]

Hi Guys,

Thank you all for your concern...Just a quick note to let you know that my Dad is still intubated. They don't feel he's ready to come off the ventilator yet because his esophagus is still a little swollen. I think it will be a few more days and then by the end of the week they will try again. They did tell my Mom that he's breathing partially on his own already. I guess they are slowly weaning him, which sounds good to me. Besides getting him off the ventilator, they are really concerned about pneumonia, so they've been taking chest X-Rays daily. So far he doesn't have fluid in his lungs, praise God! He has been having a low fever off and on, which is somewhat of a concern. Thanks for your continued prayers.

My sister is laying low while her son figures things out. I think she's afraid to ask any questions because she'll be sucked back in. Please just pray that he will get straightened out and find his way to God.

Cristianna - to answer your question above, the answer is no, I don't think you have to maintain a relationship with this person. As long as you have forgiven them, I think it's wise to keep a distance between you and them, especially if they have not repented or changed. Perhaps you can have a surface relationship for now just to keep the door open and let God use you. But scripturally I can't think of anything that says we have to open our selves up to future abuse or pain. I know about the "turn the other cheek" verse, but if the person has not changed, I think we have to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves.

Just my humble $.02. Hope it helps a little.

Love,

Jill

Wayne - I'm actually doing pretty well right now! Thank you for asking.

 

[rainbowpromises]

If you forgive someone should, or are you required, to have a "relationship" with them? That would be the bottomline of the question.

Adding more detail I would probably word it like this: I forigve this family member. I can honestly say there is no anger, bitterness, or anything of the like. But I am also able to see much of them has not changed, so I'm really not to willing to give them more than an inch to come back into my life and turn it upside down.

I know what you mean. A lot of people who are not living the pain or who never lived what you lived, tend to confuse trust and forgiveness. You can forgive someone without trusting them. Especially when they don't show change in their life.

 

[free4all]

Thanks for the update, Jill. Slow progress is better than no progress. And I'm glad you are doing okay.

If you forgive someone should, or are you required, to have a "relationship" with them? That would be the bottomline of the question.

I agree with what Jill and Annette have said: no. Trust and forgiveness ARE two separate issues. As far as scripture references, I'm sure something in Proverbs deals with this, but no specific verses come to mind other than general verses about using wisdom. If I run across any applicable verses, I'll mention them, but right now I'm on my lunch break and rushing.

The bottom line is I think it is wise to not continue exposing ourselves to the harmful actions of others, especially if the other person is aware of how they are harming others, and that person is unrepentant. Bad conduct has consequences... A surface or distant relationship may be fine, depending on the circumstances, but IMO you should set the relational boundaries, not the other person.

 

[Pepperoni]

I know what you mean. A lot of people who are not living the pain or who never lived what you lived, tend to confuse trust and forgiveness. You can forgive someone without trusting them. Especially when they don't show change in their life.

I agree with what Jill and Annette have said: no. Trust and forgiveness ARE two separate issues. As far as scripture references, I'm sure something in Proverbs deals with this, but no specific verses come to mind other than general verses about using wisdom. If I run across any applicable verses, I'll mention them, but right now I'm on my lunch break and rushing.

The bottom line is I think it is wise to not continue exposing ourselves to the harmful actions of others, especially if the other person is aware of how they are harming others, and that person is unrepentant. Bad conduct has consequences... A surface or distant relationship may be fine, depending on the circumstances, but IMO you should set the relational boundaries, not the other person.

I agree as well. I couldn't have said it any better than you guys have. I think it's perfectly fine to forgive someone--in fact, we're commanded to do that. But we're not required, scripturally, to have a relationship with them. At least not that I've ever found. I would go so far as to say that, in some cases, a relationship could be detrimental to one's spiritual growth.


On a lighter note, we have received some much-needed rain in these parts. The downside is my husband might actually have to start mowing again.

The negative side to the rain, from my end, is that the humidity does terrible things to this girl's hair. It either goes completely flat, or completely unmanageable, or a combination of the two!

 

[cristianna]

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[cristianna]

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[cory533]

Thank you for your responses everyone!



This pretty much sums up exactly how I feel, but I have repeatedly questioned my take on it. It also took quite some time to realize forgiveness doesn't mean their actions were acceptible or "okay".

And of course, I couldn't find any scriptural support going either way. The only thing remotely close to what I could find was (...I'm so horrible at repeating scripture...) when someone came across evil, they ran the other way. And I do believe there were a handful who did this.

Being nit-picky, to classify an individual as evil I have mixed feelings on. Lost, misguided, unsaved, etc I'm okay with.

there is several scriptural suports for staying away if the other person will damage your walk. Fleeing from evil is recomended. keeping yourself from temptation is another recomended thing if being around this person will tempt you if only to let em have it in an unGodly way then stay away. If however you are asking this because you are being told by the Spirit to suck it up and reach out to this person that would take precidence. But just because you are thinking about it does not necissarily mean you should assume it is the Spirit talking. pray about it the answer will come.
so, could I possibly straddle the fence a little more?

 

[hugnluvable]

Christiana. You can forgive someone and not want to hang round with them as much. When a relationship has been damaged its not up to you to fix it! When it's been damaged because you've been really hurt by it it's not up to you to fix it! It is up to you however to forgive it and if there is any way God wants to use you to fix it you follow Him. But God never gives us things we really can't handle... if you really can't handle maintaining a relationship with this person then thats fine. And if that person finds it hard well thats the consequence of their actions and they will soooo have to rethink things if they expect any change! I pray that they rethink things and change for the better - and that this whole situation is used so that they get to know the Lord.

Erica
xxx

 

[cristianna]

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[hugnluvable]

C - maybe that letter will be a way for your hubby to see your faith in action and how much Jesus' values mean to you? I don't know, but a conversation about it with your hubby could be quite beneficial.

Did your Dad's actions affect your husband as well? Cus if that is the case then your husband needs to tackle the forgiveness thing too. And if anything your Dad did didn't even touch your hubby then it will be even harder for your husband to forgive because he doesnt even think he needs to! And the anger he has for the whole thing is holding him back from the person God has made him to be. Seems to me that the bitterness is kinda choking your husband about it more than you - YOU NEED PROTECTION in any decision about this one Christianna

Love, hugs and prayers
Erica
xxx

 

[free4all]

Cristianna,

Okay, now I realize a little more of your situation. While not identical in nature, I too broke off contact with my Mom for a couple years because of things she had done. I felt prompted to write a letter last year, but I never did. I planned to address her wrongdoing and her lack of repentance, and I also planned to continue limiting her involvement in our lives as I had been doing. I was able to put all that behind me a few weeks ago ONLY because I saw she was being held accountable for her actions, and because we as a family made decisions that prevented her from continuing her abuse toward other family members. Had I not seen that she was feeling the consequences of her actions, I don't know that I would have forgiven her. I had a need to see her feel some consequences. Call it vengeance if you want, but I call it seeing God's principles in action.

So I say all that to say I understand some of what you are going through. My opinion on your husband's reaction to you dealing with this is that it is primarily between you and your father. A mate should not interfere with how we believe we should deal with such a huge family issue, even though it may affect the mate also. I confer no right to my wife to dictate how I should deal with my Mom--dw knows few details, and understands even less than what she thinks she knows. I think dealing with forgiveness and even some reconciliation, no matter how limited, is a personal issue between you and your father. I know some will say you and your husband should agree on everything... but I think we are commanded to forgive, without the prerequisite of our mate agreeing to it.

And as far as limiting or preventing contact, I absolutely agree that is okay. If you don't want his influence around your children, that is your call and your husband's call. I specifically limited my Mom's contact with my family, and I absolutely believe that was the right decision. That was not a result of bitterness, but it was to limit the negative influence of my Mom on my family.

If my Mom dies now, I have peace about our relationship. If I had written an air-clearing letter to her and then she died, I believe I would have more peace than if I had not written. Had I written last year when I felt prompted, it might have been beneficial to me. I guess I'll never know. What I'm saying is if you are feeling prompted to write, even just a short note, I believe there may be value in that. I should have responded to my promptings, but I didn't want to deal with it. So instead I lived with the bitterness and anger for another year.

I've said enough, and it's not been concise or smooth. But the bottom line is I do think it's appropriate at times to limit or totally prevent someone's influence in our lives, yet if we feel prompted to address an issue or attempt forgiveness, it will be to our benefit to proceed in that direction.

 

[cristianna]

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[Redheadedstepchild]

I've been thinking about your situation. The thing about forgivness...it seems like it's something we do for another person, but in a way it's for ourselves. If I'm injured eventually I have to to heal. Not forgiving the person who hurt me is like picking at a scab - I'm holding on to a piece of the injury and can't move on...and I'm susceptable to having to relive those past hurts.
I'm not sure if that makes sense or not, but maybe your husband would understand better if you explained it in those terms??? I would also stress that forgivness does not mean that the things your father did are acceptable or that they would be tolerated in the future. Anyway, I'm praying for you.

Jill, wanted you to know that I'm praying for you and your family too. BTW, I finished the book and loved it! TY again.

 

[free4all]

Cristianna,

I've been thinking about your situation today. The following thought keeps coming to me: What better way to illustrate God's forgiveness of us, than us forgiving someone who most would consider unforgivable? (And then there's the verse that says if we don't forgive others, neither will God forgive us.)

If you wait for dh to agree to forgive, it may never happen. I'm not trying to disrespect dh, but many in the world who do not know God (and sometimes those of us who do know God) have a very difficult time forgiving others. DH may consider your father's actions to be unforgivable, until dh receives Christ's forgiveness himself.

Nowhere does the Bible indicate we need to seek the permission of anyone to forgive others. I absolutely believe you are on the right track.

I hope you don't delay as I did. Life is fragile, and no one is guaranteed even one more day. The people who were killed in the Minnesota bridge collapse did not expect to die that day, yet their life was over in seconds once the bridge collapsed.

I think it will be a tremendous witness to your Dad to do as you have suggested. Although your dh may not like it, it will be a great opportunity to witness to him also (regardless of his reaction, it will make an impact). And I believe carrying out your plans will bring you much peace.

I urge you to follow through before it is too late, or before you talk yourself out of it. I urge you to set your sights on obeying the promptings, and let nothing deter you from carrying them out.

 

[cristianna]

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[free4all]

Thanks Wayne!

I'd write more, but my children are acting like a bunch of wild animals right now. Needless to say trying to keep focused on one simple thought is proving disastrous!

Haha, thank God for kids!

I'm praying God will open the hearts of your Dad and your dh through your actions. I pray you will not let the fear of conflict, or the speculation of how your Dad might react, to deter you even one day.

This is a tremendous opportunity for you to witness to two very important men in your life, by one act of forgiveness on your part. You may never have this opportunity again. I pray you seize it quickly while it is here.

 

[Pepperoni]

As some of you are aware I have a very turbulent history with my father. I think it's been about ten years since we've spoken or seen each other. And lately I've felt prompted to write a letter. Just honestly, I cannot envision myself writing more than five sentences or so because even though God has empowered me to forigve, I'm not willing to let him back into my life.

With that said, I wasn't sure if I was wrong for not letting him back in (which would be clearly worded). . . .

I sympathize with your situation.

I'm not so good with drawing on personal experiences like most of you are here. I admire that, because it is a skill I am lacking. It's just not my strength; in fact, many times it's downright intimidating. Now if people want to argue . . . I mean discuss . . . the interpretations of the First Amendment, or whether or not gay marriage or a universal health care plan is a good idea (or even allowable under the Constitution), I can do that. But I often draw a blank when it comes to personal issues . . . well, because that's the way I am. So I hope this comes out (somewhat) clearly.

I've had issues with both of my parents, but for different reasons.

It was a well-known fact that my father hadn't wanted children. Supposedly he was "tricked" into it, and, knowing my mother, that is entirely possible. I was terrified of him all throughout my childhood, and well into adulthood. Verbally and physically abusive, angry . . . I never did anything right in his eyes and knew I never would. I was smart enough to know that his issues weren't my fault, yet I also knew I was powerless to do anything to change his attitude towards me. I was a young child unable to stand up to him, and I had no choice but to tolerate it. I made many plans to run away throughout the years, very elaborate plans I might add, but they never came to fruition. Fear of what he might to do to me if he ever found me was enough to hold me back.

I always felt my mother was on my side. She didn't turn on me until I was in my late teens. I think it was anger at the fact that her only daughter didn't turn out to be a carbon copy of her. Very controlling and manipulative, she thought she was the standard by which all females were measured, and I clearly did not measure up. As an adult, whenever I didn't do exactly as she wanted, the verbal abuse and namecalling ensued. She resorted to deceit and trickery in an attempt(s) (successful attempts I might add) to get her own way and make sure I was "screwed over" and taught a lesson. In many ways I didn't care, but in other ways this was much worse than what I went through as a child. Or maybe I just dealt with things better as a child.

At any rate, it wasn't until very recently (roughly 3 - 4 years ago . . . maybe not even that long) that I made the decision to put it all behind me. Coming to terms with it happened when I became a parent, but it wasn't resolved until recently. I made it no longer my problem. I completely gave it over to the Lord. I told Him that it was His problem now, He could deal with her however He saw fit. I was done with it.

Like I said, it was a decision. I didn't feel the need to elicit any sort of apology or confrontation or even a discussion. I couldn't now if I wanted to. My father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's about 5 1/2 years ago and I seriously doubt he knows who I am. Most of the time he doesn't know who he is. My mother . . . has her own version of the past and it bears no resemblance to mine. Any discussion with her would be fruitless. We are pleasant with each other, friendly even at times, but we will never be close.

I made the decision to forgive anyway, and I did it completely for myself. For me, it served no purpose to carry it around. I wasn't going to let either of them run (and ruin) my life that way. It wasn't worth it.

It didn't happen overnight. For some people it does. For me it was a process. Attending church helped, talking to others helped, watching Dr. Phil helped . I don't even think about it so much anymore. Once in a while something will happen that will remind me of an instance . . . and I'll think about how far I've come and what I've learned from it, and marvel at the fact that I even lived through it.

I even turned out to be a pretty normal person . . . okay, scratch that. Seriously though, I'm not even sure I would change the past if I had the opportunity, which of course I don't. It's done, it can't be changed; all I can do is learn from it and grow from it. It's made me who I am today (and that's not such a bad thing . . . sometimes ).

P.S. I've got kids bugging me too. I've always said I'm going to change my name someday and not give it out.

 

[Jenniewren]

Onto something funnier. I thought all day yesterday was Wednesday. It's a bummer to wake up and realize it's Wednesday... all over again!

Christianna, I love wednesdays. It's my favourite weekday!

I'd write more, but my children are acting like a bunch of wild animals right now

I'm thinking of donating mine to the zoo.

Still praying for your family Jill xx

Christianna, I agree with everything the others have said. I think RHSC has made a very good point. unforgivness in our hearts can eat away at us causing bitterness often causing innocent people around to suffer. I know that has been true in my life.
Pepper, your situation sounds a little bit like mine. My mother had three sons and then a daughter who died and then years later me. She obviously had all these expectations of what a daughter should and could be. I was never good enough. She was (and still is) emotionally abusive, manipulative. She is needy and clingy one minute. cold and hard the next. She liked to get attention. One way was to exagerate symptoms of an illness I might have to get me nedicated and gain sympathy for the poor child and what a dedicated mother she must be to lavish such care on a sickly child. It was only when I nearly died from an overdose of a cocktail of drugs described by differnt doctors it was stopped.
I am sorry I can't write more just now.