Cheap Grace

[James Is Back]

Cheap grace is soft or hard antinomianism. The Christian should love the Law, even if they cannot keep it perfectly. Despising good works is a sign that something has gone off-track.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer first used the term "Cheap grace". He was describing people who used the doctrine of grace to deny the call to discipleship in Christ, by effectively pulling the teeth out of the Law through religious self-justification. If you don't think its a serious matter, there are tens of millions of victims of the Nazi regime to testify to it.

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/bonhoeffer/general.htm

If you read the article on Bonhoeffer and what it says about his beliefs I would take what he said with a grain of salt.

 

[Lulav]

true...we are helping them to see.

See what?

 

[JustHisKid]

How many times have I heard some Christians complain that they are against "works salvation" by which they mean they don't want a Christian faith that demands anything of them??? I have news for them. Christ demands EVERYTHING of us. OUR VERY LIVES are to be a living sacrifice unto him. That said, how can you complain about God asking our obedience, our faithfulness, our good works? "For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works" Eph 2:10. Yes, we are saved by Grace, but not a cheap grace!

That is not what works-based salvation is. Works-based salvation is the belief that without "works", you will not be saved. This mindset creates two things, guilt and pride, neither of which are from the Lord. Christians produce fruit (works) because they are saved, not in order to be so.

 

[FireDragon76]

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/bonhoeffer/general.htm

I've read Bonhoeffer's Ethics and the depth of his theology is clearly going to be beyond some people.

 

[Meowzltov]

That is not what works-based salvation is. Works-based salvation is the belief that without "works", you will not be saved.

And yet James specifically tells us that faith without works is dead, that faith alone cannot save you.

 

[JustHisKid]

And yet James specifically tells us that faith without works is dead, that faith alone cannot save you.

And what James is talking about is that you can tell if faith is real or not by the works it produces. Works cannot save you. Faith alone is not faith. Real faith always produces good works naturally.

 

[JustHisKid]

And yet James specifically tells us that faith without works is dead, that faith alone cannot save you.

James
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

 

[JustHisKid]

And yet James specifically tells us that faith without works is dead, that faith alone cannot save you.

What works does your faith produce?

 

[Frogster]

See what?

I put a flashlight in the post......see Paul!

Acts 18:26 to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

 

[Frogster]

Why the need for such language? Do you consider all who don't agree with you as an enemy?

well..Paul did..

Philippians 3:18
For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ.

 

[Frogster]

And yet James specifically tells us that faith without works is dead, that faith alone cannot save you.

I explained James, you don"t tell us why he said in Acts 15, as he agreed with Peter, works don't save, look at Peter's theology AGAIN!

PETER>>>>, 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.

JAMES>>>>14 Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,

You just keep saying the same thing, but when confronted in a debate, you have no sound rebuttal. Thanks! frog.

 

[Frogster]

And yet James specifically tells us that faith without works is dead, that faith alone cannot save you.

I explained James, you don"t tell us why he said in Acts 15, as he agreed with Peter, works don't save, look at Peter's theology AGAIN!

PETER>>>>, 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.

JAMES>>>>14 Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,

You just keep saying the same thing, but when confronted in a debate, you have no sound rebuttal. Thanks! frog.

 

[Meowzltov]

Works cannot save you. Faith alone is not faith.

It's the word "alone" that is the enemy. Faith alone does not save, nor does works alone. Only a working faith is a valid response to God's grace.

 

[Meowzltov]

What works does your faith produce?

You're asking me to brag? It's unseemly.

 

[Meowzltov]

I explained James, you don"t tell us why he said in Acts 15, as he agreed with Peter, works don't save, look at Peter's theology AGAIN!

You can't use Acts 15 as an argument, because the Mosaic laws stayed in place for Jewish believers.

 

[JustHisKid]

You're asking me to brag? It's unseemly.

The question was rhetorical.

 

[Lulav]

well..Paul did..

Philippians 3:18
For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ.

So that is what you think of me? Good to know, in context

17 Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us. 18 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things.

 

[JustHisKid]

It's the word "alone" that is the enemy. Faith alone does not save, nor does works alone. Only a working faith is a valid response to God's grace.

Because a workless faith is dead, meaning it is not faith. Faith is very much alive. You will recognize those who have true faith by the fruit that is produced. The fruits of the spirit. You know what they are. The fruits of the spirit is the work faith produces.

 

[Frogster]

It's the word "alone" that is the enemy. Faith alone does not save, nor does works alone. Only a working faith is a valid response to God's grace.

no , please stop fusing law and grace! Paul never said that, and would totally disagree with you, read this verse please. I go
more too!

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[Frogster]

You can't use Acts 15 as an argument, because the Mosaic laws stayed in place for Jewish believers.

They may have been under law In Jerusalem, but the other churches that had Jews in them were not, as I have proved, and 70 AD ended all of that anyway.

Peter said the law was a yoke that his Jewish fathers could not bear, and "disciples" here is Jewish inclusive with Luke in Acts 15. Peter said "we". Who did he mean but Jews. even himself, as he was in the "WE"? Lets see my sis answer that one! Why did Peter say "we"?


Acts 15: Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
They may have been under law In Jerusalem, but the other churches that had Jews in them were not, as I have proved, and 70 AD ended all of that anyway.

Peter said the law was a yoke that his Jewish fathers could not bear, and "disciples" here is Jewish inclusive with Luke in Acts 15. Peter said "we". Who did he mean but Jews. even himself, as he was in the "WE"? Lets see my sis answer that one! Why did Peter say "we"?


Acts 15: Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?