Charles Darwin & Genesis 3:5

[Bradskii]

I think more mystically...there's the road to Damascus event that was a bit interesting.

A quiz show question last night asked 'what town was Paul coming from when he had his conversion?' My wife and I both said 'Damasus' at the same time. Curses, it was the road to Damascus. He was coming from Jerusalem.

 

[Astrid]

I think more mystically...there's the road to Damascus event that was a bit interesting.

What do you think about the snake bite story.

 

[SLP]

You mean this one?

O thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the war's desolation.
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Here is a link to a searchable version of the U.S. Constitution.
Here is one for the Bill of Rights.

Please show us wherein God, Jesus, Christianity, etc. can be found as guiding principles, beliefs, etc.

 

[AV1611VET]

Here is a link to a searchable version of the U.S. Constitution.
Here is one for the Bill of Rights.

Please show us wherein God, Jesus, Christianity, etc. can be found as guiding principles, beliefs, etc.

I'll pass, thanks.

I'm talking about national anthems, as well as flags that have crosses on them.

 

[Ophiolite]

I'm talking about national anthems, as well as flags that have crosses on them.

The Scottish flag has a cross on it, the Cross of St. Andrew. I'm interested in what conclusion you reach from this? I'm not clear what significance you are reading into it. (And, as you may well imagine, I suspect your conclusion may be flawed. You can set me right on that score by a concise and pertinent answer.)

 

[AV1611VET]

The Scottish flag has a cross on it, the Cross of St. Andrew. I'm interested in what conclusion you reach from this?

My conclusion?

Um ... the Scottish flag has a cross on it, the Cross of St. Andrew.

I'm not clear what significance you are reading into it. (And, as you may well imagine, I suspect your conclusion may be flawed. You can set me right on that score by a concise and pertinent answer.)

My point is that it's ironic to envision someone railing against the Bible at home, then going out somewhere and singing: GOD SAVE THE QUEEN.

It's equally ironic to envision someone driving past his nation's flag with a cross on it, on his way to an atheist convention.

And while "ironic" is a good term, "disrespectful" would be a better one.

 

[Ophiolite]

My conclusion?

Um ... the Scottish flag has a cross on it, the Cross of St. Andrew.My point is that it's ironic to envision someone railing against the Bible at home, then going out somewhere and singing: GOD SAVE THE QUEEN.

It's equally ironic to envision someone driving past his nation's flag with a cross on it, on his way to an atheist convention.

And while "ironic" is a good term, "disrespectful" would be a better one.

First, thank you for actually giving a comperhensive and seemingly honest answer for a change. It is a refreshing change from your usual approach.

Let me repeat your words, with the change you suggest of replacing "ironic" with "disrespectful":
My point is that it's disrespectful to envision someone railing against the Bible at home, then going out somewhere and singing: GOD SAVE THE QUEEN.

Disrespectful to whom? The Queen is a figurehead, the national anthem (of the United Kingdom, not the national anthem of Scotland) is a a jolly, rousing tune that, like many national anthems, allows one to express ones sense of patriotism, typically in company with others. The words are incidental, a fact reflected in the inability of most Brits to recall what the words are. (And of course some verses have been set aside, such as the one that includes the words "rebellious Scots to quell". ) Singing the UK national item neither represents admiration for the Queen, or belief in God, but simply - as noted - an affection for ones homeland.

It's equally disrespectful to envision someone driving past his nation's flag with a cross on it, on his way to an atheist convention.
In the 2011 census 53% of Scots identified themselves as Christians, down from 65% just ten years earlier. I would be astounded if the 2021 census did not show a figure below 50% and this is setting aside the fact that a proportion of those identifying as Christians are so in name only. In short, Scotland is no longer a Christian country, while the religious connotations of the flag have been subsumed in its value as a symbol of Scottish patriotism and, in some cases, of the desire for full independence. So there is no disrespect involved.

 

[Oneiric1975]

It's equally ironic to envision someone driving past his nation's flag with a cross on it, on his way to an atheist convention.

I don't see why that would be ironic. Most citizens of any given country don't have a lot of say on what is on the flag, per se. Why would random Joe Atheist be responsible for what was established many generations ago?

There are atheists today in the US who spend money that says "In God We Trust" on it!!! Imagine that! Why do they just not use money? That would be less ironic?

 

[Astrid]

First, thank you for actually giving a comperhensive and seemingly honest answer for a change. It is a refreshing change from your usual approach.

Let me repeat your words, with the change you suggest of replacing "ironic" with "disrespectful":
My point is that it's disrespectful to envision someone railing against the Bible at home, then going out somewhere and singing: GOD SAVE THE QUEEN.

Disrespectful to whom? The Queen is a figurehead, the national anthem (of the United Kingdom, not the national anthem of Scotland) is a a jolly, rousing tune that, like many national anthems, allows one to express ones sense of patriotism, typically in company with others. The words are incidental, a fact reflected in the inability of most Brits to recall what the words are. (And of course some verses have been set aside, such as the one that includes the words "rebellious Scots to quell". ) Singing the UK national item neither represents admiration for the Queen, or belief in God, but simply - as noted - an affection for ones homeland.

It's equally disrespectful to envision someone driving past his nation's flag with a cross on it, on his way to an atheist convention.
In the 2011 census 53% of Scots identified themselves as Christians, down from 65% just ten years earlier. I would be astounded if the 2021 census did not show a figure below 50% and this is setting aside the fact that a proportion of those identifying as Christians are so in name only. In short, Scotland is no longer a Christian country, while the religious connotations of the flag have been subsumed in its value as a symbol of Scottish patriotism and, in some cases, of the desire for full independence. So there is no disrespect involved.

When I was a child I sang, "God save the Queen".
Why not? Why not. It didnt mean anything. The
queen didn't seem like she needed to be rescued.
It's just a song.

 

[Astrid]

I don't see why that would be ironic. Most citizens of any given country don't have a lot of say on what is on the flag, per se. Why would random Joe Atheist be responsible for what was established many generations ago?

There are atheists today in the US who spend money that says "In God We Trust" on it!!! Imagine that! Why do they just not use money? That would be less ironic?

What a ridiculous topic.

 

[Oneiric1975]

When I was a child I sang, "God save the Queen".
Why not? Why not. It didnt mean anything. The
queen didn't seem like she needed to be rescued.
It's just a song.

But all you folks singing it raised it up to God who then ensured the queen was ok! QED

 

[Astrid]

But all you folks singing it raised it up to God who then ensured the queen was ok! QED

Wish she and the Empire would come back and save us.

 

[Bradskii]

But all you folks singing it raised it up to God who then ensured the queen was ok! QED

I think it depends on whether one actually has a choice. For my part, being born and raised in Wales, it was the Welsh national athem that was generally sung when the singing of an anthem was called for (the queen or God don't make an appearance). If it happened to be the British version I would stand politely but wouldn't sing it. I had no belief in God and no reason to support the monarchy. The Scots have their own by the way - Flower of Scotland, but the English don't. So you can imagine the crowd reaction when either the Welsh or Scottish blast out their versions at a sporting contest and the English respond with...the British anthem. There is generally a certain amount of...shall we say disrespect shown (we don't get on with the English that well).

So Bradskii had a problem when he emigrated to the Land Down Under. Because after a year or so, my wife and I decided we should commit and become Australian citizens. But...one had to pledge allegiance to the queen (she is Australia's head of state) and swear by almighty God to uphold Australia's values. Whoa, hang on. Those are not options, I'm afraid. However, change was in the air. But it still took three or four years before they changed the oath so that you could exclude Her Maj and the Christian/Muslim deity. So we immediately signed up and said our pieces with easy consciences.

Next step is to get those English, Scottish and Irish crosses off our flag (no Welsh representation I'm afraid - too awkward to put a dragon on there as well I guess).

No mention of queen or God in our anthem by the way. Advance Australia Fair!

 

[Astrid]

I think it depends on whether one actually has a choice. For my part, being born and raised in Wales, it was the Welsh national athem that was generally sung when the singing of an anthem was called for (the queen or God don't make an appearance). If it happened to be the British version I would stand politely but wouldn't sing it. I had no belief in God and no reason to support the monarchy. The Scots have their own by the way - Flower of Scotland, but the English don't. So you can imagine the crowd reaction when either the Welsh or Scottish blast out their versions at a sporting contest and the English respond with...the British anthem. There is generally a certain amount of...shall we say disrespect shown (we don't get on with the English that well).

So Bradskii had a problem when he emigrated to the Land Down Under. Because after a year or so, my wife and I decided we should commit and become Australian citizens. But...one had to pledge allegiance to the queen (she is Australia's head of state) and swear by almighty God to uphold Australia's values. Whoa, hang on. Those are not options, I'm afraid. However, change was in the air. But it still took three or four years before they changed the oath so that you could exclude Her Maj and the Christian/Muslim deity. So we immediately signed up and said our pieces with easy consciences.

Next step is to get those English, Scottish and Irish crosses off our flag (no Welsh representation I'm afraid - too awkward to put a dragon on there as well I guess).

No mention of queen or God in our anthem by the way. Advance Australia Fair!

Can we join you? Like be the province of
North Queensland or something?

 

[Bradskii]

Can we join you? Like be the province of
North Queensland or something?

Maybe you could have had the lease transferred to Australia in '97. Chance missed...

 

[Astrid]

Maybe you could have had the lease transferred to Australia in '97. Chance missed...

Rats.

Well, can I move to Oz?

 

[Bradskii]

Rats.

Well, can I move to Oz?

We're pretty picky. But I'll put in a good word.

 

[Astrid]

We're pretty picky. But I'll put in a good word.

I love it here but things are changing.

 

[AV1611VET]

I love it here but things are changing.

Ya ... evolution can be a drag, can't it?

 

[BeyondET]

Ya ... evolution can be a drag, can't it?

Evolution can’t drag race with king mantis shrimp it packs quite the bunch the heat generated is hot as the sun and produces light.