Charismatic Movement inm Main Line

[Big Drew]

Who said the gifts ceased? I'm just arguing that you think talking gobbledeegook is a gift when its actually not. Speaking foreign languages is.

Prophets are still around coz we can teach and foretell the future from the word.

Healing is still here coz we have doctors.

Wisdom and knowledge are still around coz we have the Bible,

What were the others again?

Working miracles? Havn't seen that around have you?

Pentacostals and charismatics like to have erotic, physical manifestations of God to make them feel holy. It's a flesh thing.

Some of us choose to worship in the spirit like we're told.

4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in
spirit and in truth.

Barne's Notes:

"God is A spirit - This is the second reason why men should worship him in spirit and in truth. By this is meant that God is without a body; that he is not material or composed of parts; that he is invisible, in every place, pure and holy. This is one of the first truths of religion, and one of the sublimest ever presented to the mind of man. Almost all nations have had some idea of God as gross or material, but the Bible declares that he is a pure spirit. As he is such a spirit, he dwells not in temples made with hands Acts 7:48, neither is worshipped with men's hands as though he needed anything, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things, Acts 17:25. A pure, a holy, a spiritual worship, therefore, is such as he seeks - the offering of the soul rather than the formal offering of the body - the homage of the heart rather than that of the lips. "​

Have you ever actually stepped foot in a Pentecostal or Charismatic church or are you just going by what John MacArthur and others like him have said?


You say healing is around because we have doctors.

Please show me the scripture that says anything about doctors...and how do you explain when a person is healed after doctors have said there's nothing more they can do? Or have you never witnessed something like that...because I have...Doctors are good, and they serve a purpose...but ultimately the Great Physician is in charge of folks getting healed...and, according to His word, the only thing I see that we have to do is pray and believe...

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Have you ever actually stepped foot in a Pentecostal or Charismatic church or are you just going by what John MacArthur and others like him have said?

Nope, never set foot in a church of ANY kind. Way too much apostacy goin' around. I go on my research and my discernment. I fellowship online with brethren. That'll do for me until I can find a godly, orderly church with sound doctrine that focuses ONLY on the Gospels and has a leader who is a servant to the flock. That probably wont happen....so I'm not holding my breath.

You say healing is around because we have doctors.
Please show me the scripture that says anything about doctors...and how do you explain when a person is healed after doctors have said there's nothing more they can do? Or have you never witnessed something like that...because I have...Doctors are good, and they serve a purpose...but ultimately the Great Physician is in charge of folks getting healed...and, according to His word, the only thing I see that we have to do is pray and believe...

I don't doubt that God heals people. Of course He does.

Ask forgiveness of your sins and repent daily and He will heal you if it serves His divine purpose.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

I'm sorry my friend, but as Christians, we don't make things up to justify our personal opinions, whether they are our own or from our church/denomination.

You refuse to abide in scripture, so I don't see any of us accepting your views as even remotely correct. I certainly wouldn't.

And your churlish denouncing of other churches shows a lack of growth on your part, as well as understanding.

Not much more say.

I'm wondering what you're thoughts are on the 'falling away' that we are told about in scripture?

Do you think that churches are safe haven from apostacy?

Where do you think the 'false teachers' are hanging out?

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Is this Jesus prophesying and condemning the modern Pentacostal movement?

Matthew 7:21-24 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. 22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

2 Thess 2:9-12 "the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness."

2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:​

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Jer 14:14-16 Then the Lord said to me, "The prophets are prophesying falsehood in My name. I have neither sent them nor commanded them nor spoken to them; they are prophesying to you a false vision, divination, futility and the deception of their own minds. 15 "Therefore thus says the Lord concerning the prophets who are prophesying in My name, although it was not I who sent them-yet they keep saying, 'There shall be no sword or famine in this land'-by sword and famine those prophets shall meet their end! 16 "The people also to whom they are prophesying will be thrown out into the streets of Jerusalem"

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

2 Corinth 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming ​

themselves into the apostles of Christ. 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.​

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

You refuse to abide in scripture, so I don't see any of us accepting your views as even remotely correct. I certainly wouldn't.

How am I doin'?

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Jer 23:21"I did not send these prophets, But they ran. I did not speak to them, But they prophesied."


Jer 23:25-26 "I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy falsely in My name, saying, 'I had a dream, I had a dream!' 26 "How long? Is there anything in the hearts of the prophets who prophesy falsehood, even these prophets of the deception of their own heart"


Jer 23:31 "Behold, I am against the prophets," declares the Lord, "who use their tongues and declare, 'The Lord declares.' 32 "Behold, I am against those who have prophesied false dreams," declares the Lord, "and related them, and led My people astray by their falsehoods and reckless boasting; yet I did not send them or command them,nor do they furnish this people the slightest benefit," declares the Lord.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Ezek 22:28 "And her prophets have smeared whitewash for them, seeing false visions and divining lies for them, saying, 'Thus says the Lord God,' when the Lord has not spoken."


Ezek 13:6 "They see falsehood and lying divination who are saying, 'The Lord declares,' when the Lord has not sent them; yet they hope for the fulfillment of their word. 7 "Did you not see a false vision and speak a lying divination when you said, 'The Lord declares,' but it is not I who have spoken?"'" Therefore, thus says the Lord God, "Because you have spoken falsehood and seen a lie, therefore behold, I am against you," declares the Lord God. 9 "So My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will have no place in the council of My people, nor will they be written down in the register of the house of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel, that you may know that I am the Lord God. 10 "It is definitely because they have misled My people by saying, 'Peace!' when there is no peace.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

"Whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." (I Corinthians 13:8-10)

What is that which is perfect?

The New Testament!

 

[Big Drew]

Nope, never set foot in a church of ANY kind. <snip>

So you're going on secondhand information....can't say I'm surprised....

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

So you're going on secondhand information....can't say I'm surprised....

Do I need to go to a thrash metal concert to know what kinda stuff goes on there or what music I'll be hearing?

 

[Big Drew]

Do I need to go to a thrash metal concert to know what kinda stuff goes on there or what music I'll be hearing?

Apples and oranges...you can listen to that on the radio or pick up a cd...what you read on the internet about Pentecostalism, 99% of the time, is someone trashing it much the way you are here...I find it best not to speak about that I do not know...but maybe that's just me...

 

[Big Drew]

"Whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." (I Corinthians 13:8-10)

What is that which is perfect?

The New Testament!

This is typical cessationist rhetoric...that which is perfect is not the New Testament...when Paul wrote his letter he was writing just that, a letter...he didn't know that any of his letters would be canonized just as the Tanach was...in his mind, and the minds of the other NT writers, this was the only Scripture...that which is perfect is the coming of Christ...and this fits the context, since just two chapters later Paul begins talking about the resurrection...and let's not forget that the original letter didn't have chapters and verses...but sentences and paragraphs.....

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

This is typical cessationist rhetoric...that which is perfect is not the New Testament...when Paul wrote his letter he was writing just that, a letter...he didn't know that any of his letters would be canonized just as the Tanach was...in his mind, and the minds of the other NT writers, this was the only Scripture...

This is non-sensical. If you were involved with something as important as what Paul was doing, having had Jesus manifested to you personally, you would have every reason to believe that everything you write until your death would be collected together and dispersed throughout the world together with the testimony's of Jesus Christ.

that which is perfect is the coming of Christ...and this fits the context, since just two chapters later Paul begins talking about the resurrection...and let's not forget that the original letter didn't have chapters and verses...but sentences and paragraphs.....

We know this is not true by what follows. Some things are ceasing (spiritual gifts) and some things are remaining (faith, hope, and love - I Corinthians 13:13).

1. The Corinthians were envious and jealous of each other over these gifts. Paul is saying you are desirous of something that is of a temporary nature. You should be seeking those things that abide: faith, hope, and love. If "that which is perfect" is Christ, then "spiritual gifts"faith and hope will cease at the same time. This would destroy Paul's argument on the time differential between the two. What will happen to faith when Christ returns? It will become sight. (Hebrews 11:1; I John 3:lff)
2. What will happen to hope when Christ returns? It will become realization. (Romans 8:24-25) Love is eternal!
3. Besides there is no point in saying these gifts will cease when Christ returns. That is self evident. When Christ returns we will not be given the message but judged on the basis of what we did with the message. (John 12:48; Revelation 20:12).
4. These miraculous gifts will cease. But faith, hope and love will continue until Christ returns.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Apples and oranges...you can listen to that on the radio or pick up a cd...what you read on the internet about Pentecostalism, 99% of the time, is someone trashing it much the way you are here...I find it best not to speak about that I do not know...but maybe that's just me...

I know enough about pentacostalism to speak my mind on it confidently. Thanks anywayz.

 

[ARBITER01]

You say healing is around because we have doctors.

Please show me the scripture that says anything about doctors...and how do you explain when a person is healed after doctors have said there's nothing more they can do? Or have you never witnessed something like that...because I have...Doctors are good, and they serve a purpose...but ultimately the Great Physician is in charge of folks getting healed...and, according to His word, the only thing I see that we have to do is pray and believe...

His is a straight carnal Christianity.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

His is a straight carnal Christianity.

Lolz!

You are the one who craves an earthly, physical, fleshly manifestation of God and your calling ME carnal....?....?....?



My Christianity is that of worshipping in SPIRIT and TRUTH Sir.

 

[ARBITER01]

Lolz!

You are the one who craves an earthly, physical, fleshly manifestation of God and your calling ME carnal....?....?....?



My Christianity is that of worshipping in SPIRIT and TRUTH Sir.

Bashing other churches is real spiritual, huh? You're actions speak.