Changing Times.

Original Happy Camper · May 3, 2020

Matthew 4:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

The bible does not say "by every word penned by the Apostolic Fathers"

Josheb · May 3, 2020

HARK! said:
He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws.

Constantine decreed (March 7, 321) dies Solis—day of the sun, "Sunday"—as the Roman day of rest just prior to the Council of Nicaea:

“On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for grain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.”

Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ. (Canon 29 [A.D. 360]). (The Church Council of Laodicea circa 364 CE)

"The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third (fourth) Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day." The Catholic Encyclopedia Topic: Ten Commandments, 2nd paragraph

"We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy, catholic, apostolic church of Christ."--Episcopalian Bishop Seymour said in "Why We Keep Sunday."

SHABBAT SHALOM!

In all my years of posting in Christian discussion boards this matter is perhaps one of the most lame and tiresome of topics.

Constantine did not force Sunday on Christians who weren't already meeting on Sunday. As the gospel spread throughout the world it has victoriously assimilated every competing worldview it has every encountered and this is the case with Constantine. This should be celebrated, not decried. No one in the 21st century is worshiping the sun god that doesn't actually exist. We are free to honor one day over another as long as we do so unto the Lord and we are also free to honor all days alike as long as we do so unto the Lord because the work of creation (1 Peter 1:19-20) was completed on the Sabbath. It is acceptable to do good on the Sabbath; worshiping God is doing good.

Much ado about nothing based on a poor understanding of scripture.

Lost4words · May 3, 2020

HARK! said:
He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws.

Constantine decreed (March 7, 321) dies Solis—day of the sun, "Sunday"—as the Roman day of rest just prior to the Council of Nicaea:

“On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for grain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.”

Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ. (Canon 29 [A.D. 360]). (The Church Council of Laodicea circa 364 CE)

"The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third (fourth) Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day." The Catholic Encyclopedia Topic: Ten Commandments, 2nd paragraph

"We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy, catholic, apostolic church of Christ."--Episcopalian Bishop Seymour said in "Why We Keep Sunday."

SHABBAT SHALOM!

Original Happy Camper · May 3, 2020

Josheb said:
In all my years of posting in Christian discussion boards this matter is perhaps one of the most lame and tiresome of topics.

Constantine did not force Sunday on Christians who weren't already meeting on Sunday. As the gospel spread throughout the world it has victoriously assimilated every competing worldview it has every encountered and this is the case with Constantine. This should be celebrated, not decried. No one in the 21st century is worshiping the sun god that doesn't actually exist. We are free to honor one day over another as long as we do so unto the Lord and we are also free to honor all days alike as long as we do so unto the Lord because the work of creation (1 Peter 1:19-20) was completed on the Sabbath. It is acceptable to do good on the Sabbath; worshiping God is doing good.

Much ado about nothing based on a poor understanding of scripture.

I pray you will take the time to read this post.

Sunday worship is pagan in origin (1st day of the week)

In Chaldean (or Babylonian) times, the head of the church was the representative of the god Dagon. He was considered to be infallible, and was addressed as "Your Holiness." Nations subdued by Babylon had to kiss the ring and slipper of the Babylonian god-king.

Both the Dalai Lama and the Pope claim these same powers and the same titles to this day. Moreover, the vestments of paganism—the fish mitre and robes of the priests of Dagon—are worn by the Catholic bishops and cardinals, and by the Pope.

Introduction to Sun Worship

Virtually all symbols of sun worship exist in present-day Roman Catholic cathedrals.

St. Peter’s in Rome has one of the greatest collection of pagan symbols in the world. The main altar at St. Peter’s, Bernini’s Canopy, has the symbols of the serpent, sun and moon worship, and male and female forms of sun rays. The altar has Pope Joane (the only female pope in history) depicted in pains of childbirth representing the birth of the sun god. Read more about the family system in pagan sun worship
Sun Worship Symbols | Paganism and Catholicism

The pagan system of sun worship had three main aspects: the father, mother, and the son. In ancient Chaldean times, these were the god Bel or Merodach, Ninus the son who was also worshiped as Tammuz, and the female goddess Rhea who was also worshiped as Ishtar, Astarte, or Beltis. She was also referred to as the “queen of heaven,” and the “wrath subduer.” Mary has received these same names in Catholicism.

Mother and child worship was the basis of the ancient religions. In the various religions of the world, the same system of worship was perpetuated under different names. In Egypt , the mother and child were worshiped as Isis and Osiris or Horus, in India as Isi and Iswara, in China and Japan as the mother goddess Shing-moo with child, in Greece as Ceres or Irene and Plutus, in Rome as Fortuna and Jupitor-puer, or Venus and Adurnis, and in Scandinavia as Frigga and Balder. The mother and child were worshiped in Babylon as Ishtar and Tammuz, and in Phoenicia, as Ashtoreth and Baal. Moreover, the child was worshiped as both husband and son of the mother goddess.

The male component is a counterfeit of Jesus Christ. The Biblical names used for Jesus were also used for the child in ancient religions. Zoroaster was referred to as the seed, Mithra the Persian sun god was referred to as the Saviour, Dionysus as the sin-bearer, Bacchus as the branch, Vishna as the victim-man, and Osiris as the king of kings.

The Mother-Son Sun Worship System | Paganism and Catholicism | Legend of Nimrod

You can put lipstick on a pig and it still a pig. (just a saying not intended to offend)

Original Happy Camper · May 3, 2020

Josheb said:
In all my years of posting in Christian discussion boards this matter is perhaps one of the most lame and tiresome of topics.

Constantine did not force Sunday on Christians who weren't already meeting on Sunday. As the gospel spread throughout the world it has victoriously assimilated every competing worldview it has every encountered and this is the case with Constantine. This should be celebrated, not decried. No one in the 21st century is worshiping the sun god that doesn't actually exist. We are free to honor one day over another as long as we do so unto the Lord and we are also free to honor all days alike as long as we do so unto the Lord because the work of creation (1 Peter 1:19-20) was completed on the Sabbath. It is acceptable to do good on the Sabbath; worshiping God is doing good.

Much ado about nothing based on a poor understanding of scripture.

HISTORY

Pergamos (also called Pergamon or Pergamum) was situated 60 kilometres past Smyrna along the ancient Roman postal road. The name means "elevation" or "exalted." Appropriately, the religious and cultural center of the city was on top of a conspicuous mount.

Pergamos inherited the ancient system of sun worship from Babylon. According to Revelation 2:13, Pergamos was Satan's seat. It was a center of ancient sun worship, and the place where the famous altar of Zeus stood on a terrace on the slopes of the mount.

The leader of Pergamos used the same ancient title and vestments as Babylonian priests. The last pontiff king of Pergamos was Attalus III, who bequeathed his title to Rome in 133 BC, which "ended the history of Pergamum as an independent political entity."i

A Letter to Pergamos | Seven Churches of Revelation 2

Der Alte · May 3, 2020

Original Happy Camper said:
I pray you will take the time to read this post.
Sunday worship is pagan in origin (1st day of the week)....

Such utter nonsense. Do you believe everything you read on some anonymous website? You may notice I deleted most of your post because it is not worth reading.

Josheb · May 3, 2020

Original Happy Camper said:
I pray you will take the time to read this post.

Sunday worship is pagan in origin (1st day of the week)

In Chaldean (or Babylonian) times, the head of the church was the representative of the god Dagon. He was considered to be infallible, and was addressed as "Your Holiness." Nations subdued by Babylon had to kiss the ring and slipper of the Babylonian god-king.

Both the Dalai Lama and the Pope claim these same powers and the same titles to this day. Moreover, the vestments of paganism—the fish mitre and robes of the priests of Dagon—are worn by the Catholic bishops and cardinals, and by the Pope.

Introduction to Sun Worship

Virtually all symbols of sun worship exist in present-day Roman Catholic cathedrals.

St. Peter’s in Rome has one of the greatest collection of pagan symbols in the world. The main altar at St. Peter’s, Bernini’s Canopy, has the symbols of the serpent, sun and moon worship, and male and female forms of sun rays. The altar has Pope Joane (the only female pope in history) depicted in pains of childbirth representing the birth of the sun god. Read more about the family system in pagan sun worship
Sun Worship Symbols | Paganism and Catholicism

The pagan system of sun worship had three main aspects: the father, mother, and the son. In ancient Chaldean times, these were the god Bel or Merodach, Ninus the son who was also worshiped as Tammuz, and the female goddess Rhea who was also worshiped as Ishtar, Astarte, or Beltis. She was also referred to as the “queen of heaven,” and the “wrath subduer.” Mary has received these same names in Catholicism.

Mother and child worship was the basis of the ancient religions. In the various religions of the world, the same system of worship was perpetuated under different names. In Egypt , the mother and child were worshiped as Isis and Osiris or Horus, in India as Isi and Iswara, in China and Japan as the mother goddess Shing-moo with child, in Greece as Ceres or Irene and Plutus, in Rome as Fortuna and Jupitor-puer, or Venus and Adurnis, and in Scandinavia as Frigga and Balder. The mother and child were worshiped in Babylon as Ishtar and Tammuz, and in Phoenicia, as Ashtoreth and Baal. Moreover, the child was worshiped as both husband and son of the mother goddess.

The male component is a counterfeit of Jesus Christ. The Biblical names used for Jesus were also used for the child in ancient religions. Zoroaster was referred to as the seed, Mithra the Persian sun god was referred to as the Saviour, Dionysus as the sin-bearer, Bacchus as the branch, Vishna as the victim-man, and Osiris as the king of kings.

The Mother-Son Sun Worship System | Paganism and Catholicism | Legend of Nimrod

You can put lipstick on a pig and it still a pig. (just a saying not intended to offend)

I pray you will take the time to read this post and think about its truth.

God is sovereign over all.

Folks create places where the falsely imagine God does not rule and if you or anyone else in this thread, this board, this forum, or this entire planet imagine God isn't sovereign over all seven days then the problem is on your end, not mine. To properly understand the "days" of Genesis (and I take them literally) you, me, wee, must understand time is part of creation. God does not live in time. Neither does God have to rest on one human day He created.

You have wasted your time, your effort, and a small bit of cyberspace telling me history I already know, OHC. I'm gona repeat that in different words: you should not have assumed I did not know every single pixel of information you just posted. You totally ignored everything in my op-rply to post non-sequiturs you falsely imagine salient.

It is you who has not thought through the truths of WHOLE scripture and whole history, preferring instead to ignore scripture and post irrelevancies because you think Christians toady are somehow influenced by pagan practices when they are not. The "pig" in this discussion is your post, not mine.

All days are God's days. Prove that incorrect.
God exists outside of time. Prove that incorrect.
God doesn't need to literally rest. Prove that incorrect.
Christ is the Sabbath. Prove that incorrect.
Scripture in fact states quite plainly, "One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind." Prove that incorrect.
That scripture was written long before Constantine. Prove that incorrect.
Christians in the 21st century are not worshiping Constantine or any non-existent pagan god. Prove that incorrect.
"Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world." Prove that incorrect.
If you attend a congregation in which the Sabbath service contains a stage, a lectern, a sermon, a single individual wearing special garb, and the Lord's Supper is administered using wafers or bread crumbs and thimbles of wine or grape juice then you are not worshiping God in a manner consistent with NT-era scripture. Prove that incorrect.

There's a lot more but this will suffice for now. Pick any three of those statements and disprove them and then I'll reconsider my position and give your post some consideration. Otherwise it is my opinion just crapped on the forum, stinking up the thread with ignorant hubris and falsehoods.

Pray about that.

Or drop the artifices and show up for a conversation with an attitude whereby you can and will let scripture be the authority and not some misbegotten zeitgeist nonsense because I am happy to discuss the matter with you politely, respectfully, cogently, coherently, topically, scripturally once you come out from hiding behind, "I pray you will take the time to read this post," and an absence of scripture.

Pray about that.

Josheb · May 3, 2020

Original Happy Camper said:
Sunday worship is pagan in origin (1st day of the week)

So what? I am not a pagan.

Original Happy Camper said:
In Chaldean (or Babylonian) times, the head of the church was the representative of the god Dagon.

So what? I am not worshiping a non-existing dagon when I worship the Creator God on Sunday (or Monday, or Tuesday, or Wednesday...... or Saturday).

Original Happy Camper said:
Both the Dalai Lama and the Pope claim these same powers and the same titles to this day.

So what? I am not even remotely thinking about either of those ment when I worship God no matter what day it is I worship Him.

Original Happy Camper said:
Moreover, the vestments of paganism—the fish mitre and robes of the priests of Dagon—are worn by the Catholic bishops and cardinals, and by the Pope.

So what? I don't worship men, whether they wear vestments or not.

Original Happy Camper said:
Introduction to Sun Worship

So what? I am not worshiping the sun when I worship its Creator.

Original Happy Camper said:
Virtually all symbols of sun worship exist in present-day Roman Catholic cathedrals.

So what? I am not worshiping the sun when I worship its Creator.

Original Happy Camper said:
St. Peter’s in Rome has one of the greatest collection of pagan symbols in the world.

So what? I am not worshiping pagan symbols nor Peter when I worship God.

Original Happy Camper said:
The pagan system...

So what?

I AM NOT WORSHIPING ANY OF THAT WHEN I WORSHIP GOD!!!

And I don't know a Christian today who does so.

You've wasted your time, my time, your effort, and cyberspace in nonsense you misguidedly imagine is still relevant. And you've ignored everything I posted in my op-reply so you're being rude by being dismissive and DEMONSTRATING a profound lack of interest in discourse. Do you like it when folks respond to your posts ignoring everything you've written? No? Then don't do it to others! If you're interested in conversation in a discussion board then don't ignore what's posted. If you're not interested in discussion it would probably benefit everyone if a statement to that effect was included in your signature.

We're not bowing down to the sun god or the fish god or any other non-existent pagan god and we're not bowing down to worship your posts, either. If you would like to understand how and why arguments about the seventh or first day are lam and foolish then engage what I posted; don't ignore it.

Original Happy Camper · May 3, 2020

Josheb said:
So what? I am not a pagan.

So what? I am not worshiping a non-existing dagon when I worship the Creator God on Sunday (or Monday, or Tuesday, or Wednesday...... or Saturday).

So what? I am not even remotely thinking about either of those ment when I worship God no matter what day it is I worship Him.

So what? I don't worship men, whether they wear vestments or not.

So what? I am not worshiping the sun when I worship its Creator.

So what? I am not worshiping the sun when I worship its Creator.

So what? I am not worshiping pagan symbols nor Peter when I worship God.

So what?

I AM NOT WORSHIPING ANY OF THAT WHEN I WORSHIP GOD!!!

And I don't know a Christian today who does so.

You've wasted your time, my time, your effort, and cyberspace in nonsense you misguidedly imagine is still relevant. And you've ignored everything I posted in my op-reply so you're being rude by being dismissive and DEMONSTRATING a profound lack of interest in discourse. Do you like it when folks respond to your posts ignoring everything you've written? No? Then don't do it to others! If you're interested in conversation in a discussion board then don't ignore what's posted. If you're not interested in discussion it would probably benefit everyone if a statement to that effect was included in your signature.

We're not bowing down to the sun god or the fish god or any other non-existent pagan god and we're not bowing down to worship your posts, either. If you would like to understand how and why arguments about the seventh or first day are lam and foolish then engage what I posted; don't ignore it.

Well I see by your reply I am out of your league so no need for me to reply to you.

God be with you

Ronit · May 3, 2020

HARK! said:
Exodus 31
12 YAHWEH said to Moshe, 13 Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘You are to observe my Shabbats; for this is a sign between me and you through all your generations; so that you will know that I am YAHWEH, who sets you apart for me. 17 It is a sign between me and the people of Isra’el forever; for in six days ADONAI made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he stopped working and rested.’

I agree with You Hark.
Who are we, mere humans, and kings to change the Holy law of God YHWH?
If we claim to follow and love Our God we need to follow his Rx for living.

Josheb · May 3, 2020

Original Happy Camper said:
Well I see by your reply I am out of your league so no need for me to reply to you.

God be with you

What need existed previously?

Answer that question from within, not based on what might have been imagined about me. In other words,

"Josh, I posted because I felt within me the need to ____________ .

"I posted because I felt within me the need to _______________ (regardless of anything specifically about you, Josh)."

Because no one here needs either of us to post, OHC. This forum will get along perfectly well without our contributions. Thinking otherwise is a problem to be solved.

Catty comments about posters' "league" don't further the conversation any more than your previous post. You've now wasted two posts (and time and effort, etc.)! For all the good your Adventism has done you it has not made you a more fruitful poster! Can we at least agree we should be aspiring to bear fruit? I exhort you to pay attention to this because you're SDA. That means - by definition - you are a statistical and normative minority. I, for myself, have no particular axe to grind on the skulls of SDAs. I simply expect every poster to post...

a polite and respectful, reasonable and rational, cogent and coherent, topical case of well-rendered scripture.

Surely we can all agree to that measure, yes? So go back to post #104 and measure that post by the metric above. Then tell me why "leagues" are relevant. Then tell me why posting anything one way or another about me is op related. Tell me why the rhetoric was appropriate.

All that had to be done was follow up with something either op-related or followed upon what I actually posted. I listed it all twice for our mutual benefit.

"Josh, you made some good points. I cannot disprove any of those bullet points, nor would I want to do so because I completely agree with them all. I do however, think _________________ is relevant and worth examining because in ______________ the NT writer said _________________." What do you think of that?"

Why are you here?

You do not see anything by my reply. Otherwise you'd have posted something that was actually relevant to something actually posted.

Or maybe you're correct and you are out of my league and everyone elses because no one here wants to have their posts ignored and read non sequiturs from SDAs attempting to force their doctrines on others. If so then you have my apologies; I regret expecting more from you. I'll take note of the handle and endeavor never to have such expectations of you in the future until I read evidence of your growth.

God be with you, too.

HARK! · May 3, 2020

Der Alter said:
Such utter nonsense. Do you believe everything you read on some anonymous website? You may notice I deleted most of your post because it is not worth reading.

Have you no refutation?

"During the first crusade, Pope Urban II decreed at the council of Clermont (AD 1095) that the Sabbath be set aside in hounour of the Virgin Mary."- History of the Sabbath p 672

Der Alte · May 3, 2020

HARK! said:
Have you no refutation?

I am not going to waste my time reading let alone respond to a 2d hand copy paste of some unsupported stuff posted online by some anonymous person.
If someone quotes some credible, verifiable, historical evidence then I might consider. responding.

Original Happy Camper · May 3, 2020

Josheb said:
What need existed previously?

Answer that question from within, not based on what might have been imagined about me. In other words,

"Josh, I posted because I felt within me the need to ____________ .

"I posted because I felt within me the need to _______________ (regardless of anything specifically about you, Josh)."

Because no one here needs either of us to post, OHC. This forum will get along perfectly well without our contributions. Thinking otherwise is a problem to be solved.

Catty comments about posters' "league" don't further the conversation any more than your previous post. You've now wasted two posts (and time and effort, etc.)! For all the good your Adventism has done you it has not made you a more fruitful poster! Can we at least agree we should be aspiring to bear fruit? I exhort you to pay attention to this because you're SDA. That means - by definition - you are a statistical and normative minority. I, for myself, have no particular axe to grind on the skulls of SDAs. I simply expect every poster to post...

a polite and respectful, reasonable and rational, cogent and coherent, topical case of well-rendered scripture.

Surely we can all agree to that measure, yes? So go back to post #104 and measure that post by the metric above. Then tell me why "leagues" are relevant. Then tell me why posting anything one way or another about me is op related. Tell me why the rhetoric was appropriate.

All that had to be done was follow up with something either op-related or followed upon what I actually posted. I listed it all twice for our mutual benefit.

"Josh, you made some good points. I cannot disprove any of those bullet points, nor would I want to do so because I completely agree with them all. I do however, think _________________ is relevant and worth examining because in ______________ the NT writer said _________________." What do you think of that?"

Why are you here?

You do not see anything by my reply. Otherwise you'd have posted something that was actually relevant to something actually posted.

Or maybe you're correct and you are out of my league and everyone elses because no one here wants to have their posts ignored and read non sequiturs from SDAs attempting to force their doctrines on others. If so then you have my apologies; I regret expecting more from you. I'll take note of the handle and endeavor never to have such expectations of you in the future until I read evidence of your growth.

God be with you, too.

Matthew 10:14
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

There will be no further reply to you

Look forward to seeing after the resurrection

HARK! · May 3, 2020

Original Happy Camper said:
Matthew 10:14
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

There will be no further reply to you

Look forward to seeing after the resurrection

I found your posts very interesting.

"There is much evidence that the Sabbath prevailed in Wales universally until AD 1115, when the first Roman bishop was seated at St. David's. The old Welsh Sabbath-keeping churches did not even then altogether bow the knee to Rome, but fled to their hiding places." - Lewis, Seventh Day Baptists in Europe and America, Vol 1, p 29

Der Alte · May 3, 2020

HARK! said:
I found your posts very interesting.
"There is much evidence that the Sabbath prevailed in Wales universally until AD 1115, when the first Roman bishop was seated at St. David's. The old Welsh Sabbath-keeping churches did not even then altogether bow the knee to Rome, but fled to their hiding places." - Lewis, Seventh Day Baptists in Europe and America, Vol 1, p 29

Claiming that there is "much evidence" is not the same as identifying and providing such evidence.
I can just imagine going to court and for my defense I say, "Judge there is much evidence somewhere that I am not guilty."

Der Alte · May 3, 2020

Original Happy Camper said:
HISTORY
Pergamos (also called Pergamon or Pergamum) was situated 60 kilometres past Smyrna along the ancient Roman postal road. The name means "elevation" or "exalted." Appropriately, the religious and cultural center of the city was on top of a conspicuous mount.
Pergamos inherited the ancient system of sun worship from Babylon. According to Revelation 2:13, Pergamos was Satan's seat. It was a center of ancient sun worship, and the place where the famous altar of Zeus stood on a terrace on the slopes of the mount.
The leader of Pergamos used the same ancient title and vestments as Babylonian priests. The last pontiff king of Pergamos was Attalus III, who bequeathed his title to Rome in 133 BC, which "ended the history of Pergamum as an independent political entity."i

Do you even read all this nonsense you are posting? Go to your link scroll to the bottom and you will see that everything is copied from a book by someone else.
There is not one bit of original, credible, verifiable, historical evidence. So you by copy/pasting all this are condemning thousands of Christians for things there is no, zero, none evidence for.

HARK! · May 3, 2020

Der Alter said:
Claiming that there is "much evidence" is not the same as identifying and providing such evidence.
I can just imagine going to court and for my defense I say, "Judge there is much evidence somewhere that I am not guilty."

Maybe this is more your speed:

Josephus , first century Historian, says : "There is not any city of the Grecians, nor any of the barbarians, nor any nation whatsoever, whither our custom of resting on the seventh day hath not come!" M'Clathie, Notes and Queries on China and Japan. (edited by Dennys),Vol.4, Nos. 7,8, p.100.

JSRG · May 4, 2020

HARK! said:
Maybe this is more your speed:

Josephus , first century Historian, says : "There is not any city of the Grecians, nor any of the barbarians, nor any nation whatsoever, whither our custom of resting on the seventh day hath not come!" M'Clathie, Notes and Queries on China and Japan. (edited by Dennys),Vol.4, Nos. 7,8, p.100.

Where did Josephus say this?

eleos1954 · May 4, 2020

solid_core said:
You cannot actually change a law that is no longer in place.

Your quote from Daniel was about Antiochus Epiphanes. Not about the Christian era.

You cannot actually change a law that is no longer in place.

This is true .... and the bible says "will THINK" to change laws and times.

Daniel 7:25
English Standard Version
He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.

What God has created and what was written with His own hand ... can not be changed by anti-christ ... and God says He himself does not change.

So ... if anti-christ thinks he can change them .... then that means they are in fact ... still in place ... otherwise ... he (anti-christ) wouldn't think he could change them.

Malachi 3:6
King James Version
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Hebrews 13:8
Berean Study Bible
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

Changing Times.

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This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

One of GODS Children I am a historicist

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This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

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