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Changing Times.

Der Alte

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Ah, so we need to find our the defence to Jesus' apparent threat in Paul's writings?
But why be eclectic if we can find it right here in the next few verses? We don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves, now do we.

Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.
(Matt 5:25-26)
It's about reconciling differences and not letting resentments fester, is it not? And the 'prison' is just another metaphor like 'Gehenna fire' for the place where God will fix it. The message is Yes, you will get out, but at great cost. As in: saved, though as through fire.
I thank you for your "interpretation" of what "prison" really means. Where is there a specific verse where God, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, clearly, unequivocally say that they will "fix" everyone after death, righteous and unrighteous alike?
 
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Der Alte

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Ah, so we need to find our the defence to Jesus' apparent threat in Paul's writings?
But why be eclectic if we can find it right here in the next few verses? We don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves, now do we.

Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.
(Matt 5:25-26)
It's about reconciling differences and not letting resentments fester, is it not? And the 'prison' is just another metaphor like 'Gehenna fire' for the place where God will fix it. The message is Yes, you will get out, but at great cost. As in: saved, though as through fire.
Why stop at vs. 25?
Matthew 5:29-30
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
And we can't forget these verses.
• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
Greek is now, and has always been, the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the EOB, knows the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “aionios” and “kolasis?”
…..Note, in the EOB, Paul uses “αιωνιως/aionios,” in 1 Tim 1:17 synonymous with “αιδιος/aidios” in Rom 1:20, see below.
The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
= = = = = = =
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
= = = = = = = =
1 Timothy 1:17 Now, to the eternal [των αιωνων/tōn aiōnōn] King. immortal. invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory unto ages of ages. Amen.
In 1 Tim 1:17 Paul not only uses "aionios" synonymous with "aidios," in Rom 1:20, but also defines it by pairing it with "immortal" in the same verse.
The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. If anyone chooses to consult the EOB version I suggest they read the preface which summarizes the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.



 
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I thank you for your "interpretation" of what "prison" really means. Where is there a specific verse where God, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, clearly, unequivocally say that they will "fix" everyone after death, righteous and unrighteous alike?

My pleasure der Alter, I'm so happy to be able to shed a little light of the Spirit. In answer to your question, Jesus would never express such great truths in a so banal and pedestrian manner. We constantly pray that God will deliver us from the power of the dog.

So that, knowing that the Father of all gives good gifts, that all will be goodly salted with fire, that the Pearly Gates stand ever-open, and that even the unrighteous get freed from the prisons of death, hades and gehenna, well then we can have a firm faith that all will be free indeed, all things put under Jesus' feet and restored in time just as all the prophets spake, the Spirit poured out on all flesh.
 
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Why stop and vs. 25
Mat 5:29-30
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Same thing there, you won't get out till you've paid the uttermost farthing. (He already taught us the penalty). It means conversion, transformation, repentance, death of the old man and raising of the new man in Christ.
 
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Der Alte

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My pleasure der Alter, I'm so happy to be able to shed a little light of the Spirit. In answer to your question, Jesus would never express such great truths in a so banal and pedestrian manner. We constantly pray that God will deliver us from the power of the dog.
So that, knowing that the Father of all gives good gifts, that all will be goodly salted with fire, that the Pearly Gates stand ever-open, and that even the unrighteous get freed from the prisons of death, hades and gehenna, well then we can have a firm faith that all will be free indeed, all things put under Jesus' feet and restored in time just as all the prophets spake, the Spirit poured out on all flesh.
Much of what Jesus taught was in what you refer to as banal and pedestrian manner. See e.g. when Jesus confronted the Jewish leaders, "You have heard it said...but I say to you...."

Same thing there, you won't get out till you've paid the uttermost farthing. (He already taught us the penalty). It means conversion, transformation, repentance, death of the old man and raising of the new man in Christ.
Faulty scripture interpretation. You cannot apply one parable to everything that Jesus said.
Please explain to me how someone being punished in fire in "hades" or "Gehenna" can pay every farthing? They don't have any farthings to pay anyone.
 
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Justin [A.D. 110-165.] The First Apology Chap. LXVII
But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

He doesn't say anything about Sunday being the Sabbath; and his math is fuzzy.

(CLV) Mt 12:40
For even as Jonah was in the bowel of the sea monster three days and three nights, thus will the Son of Mankind be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.


Let's see who do we go with on this one, Justin or Yahshua?


Next witness!

Pope John Paul seems to agree with him.

"Because the Third Commandment (which is really the fourth commandment but Catholicism does away with the second commandment so they do not have to acknowledge their idolatry which to them makes the Sabbath the third~kh) depends upon the remembrance of God's saving works and because Christians saw the definitive time inaugurated by Christ as a new beginning, they made the first day after the Sabbath a festive day, for that was the day on which the Lord rose from the dead."- Pope John Paul II-DIES DOMINI-Dies Hominis v.18, May 31, 1998
 
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Der Alte

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He doesn't say anything about Sunday being the Sabbath; and his math is fuzzy.
(CLV) Mt 12:40
For even as Jonah was in the bowel of the sea monster three days and three nights, thus will the Son of Mankind be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
Let's see who do we go with on this one, Justin or Yahshua?
Next witness!
Pope John Paul seems to agree with him.
"Because the Third Commandment (which is really the fourth commandment but Catholicism does away with the second commandment so they do not have to acknowledge their idolatry which to them makes the Sabbath the third~kh) depends upon the remembrance of God's saving works and because Christians saw the definitive time inaugurated by Christ as a new beginning, they made the first day after the Sabbath a festive day, for that was the day on which the Lord rose from the dead."- Pope John Paul II-DIES DOMINI-Dies Hominis v.18, May 31, 1998
Move along people nothing to see here.
 
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Move along people nothing to see here.

Augsburg Confession of Faith art. 28; written by Melanchthon, approved by Martin Luther, 1530; as published in The Book of Concord of the Evangelical Lutheran Church "They [Roman Catholics] refer to the Sabbath Day, as having been changed into the Lord's Day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it seems. Neither is there any example whereof they make more than concerning the changing of the Sabbath Day. Great, say they, is the power of the Church, since it has dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments!"
 
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Much of what Jesus taught was in what you refer to as banal and pedestrian manner. See e.g. when Jesus confronted the Jewish leaders, "You have heard it said...but I say to you...."

No, that's straight talk. Letting them know he is the new Moses fulfilling the Torah.

Faulty scripture interpretation. You cannot apply one parable to everything that Jesus said.
Please explain to me how someone being punished in fire in "hades" or "Gehenna" can pay every farthing? They don't have any farthings to pay anyone.

The 'farthing' is not a literal reference, my poetically-challenged friend. When Jesus recites Isaiah 61:1 to the local Synagogue crew, do you think he's on a literal prison ministry? Does he visit the Roman dungeons during his ministry?

The Spirit of the Lord GOD is on Me, because the LORD has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and release from darkness to the prisoners,

The 'farthings' of which Jesus speaks are more like the sins we hold dear, stubborn pride and self-righteousness being mainstays.

When you're overcoming by washing your robes in the blood of the Lamb, you're buying from Him gold refined in the fire. For:

The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found and hid again; and from joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field. (Mt 13:44)
 
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Der Alte

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No, that's straight talk. Letting them know he is the new Moses fulfilling the Torah.
The 'farthing' is not a literal reference, my poetically-challenged friend. When Jesus recites Isaiah 61:1 to the local Synagogue crew, do you think he's on a literal prison ministry? Does he visit the Roman dungeons during his ministry?
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is on Me, because the LORD has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and release from darkness to the prisoners,
The 'farthings' of which Jesus speaks are more like the sins we hold dear, stubborn pride and self-righteousness being mainstays.
When you're overcoming by washing your robes in the blood of the Lamb, you're buying from Him gold refined in the fire. For:
The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found and hid again; and from joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field. (Mt 13:44)
I appreciate your vain efforts to interpret scripture for me. But I do not require it. If I choose to consult commentary I have sufficient on my laptop, Robertson, Vincent, Jamieson, Faussett, Brown etc. I certainly do not need prejudiced UR opinions from an anonymous person on this forum.
The analogy of sins=farthings does not work.
 
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I certainly do not need prejudiced UR opinions from an anonymous person on this forum.

Here's one from Pope John Paul:

"The distinction of Sunday from the Jewish Sabbath grew ever stronger in the mind of the Church, even though there have been times in history when, because the obligation of Sunday rest was so emphasized, the Lord's Day tended to become more like the Sabbath. Moreover, there have always been groups within Christianity which observe both the Sabbath and Sunday as "two brother days"."-(v.23)Pope John Paul II-DIES DOMINI-Dies Hominis, May 31, 1998
 
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I appreciate your vain efforts to interpret scripture for me. But I do not require it. If I choose to consult commentary I have sufficient on my laptop, Robertson, Vincent, Jamieson, Faussett, Brown etc. I certainly do not need prejudiced UR opinions from an anonymous person on this forum.
The analogy of sins=farthings does not work.

Ah, so it is that He keeps these great things from the wise and prudent, but reveals them to children. For even the foolishness of God is wiser than man, and God uses the foolish things of the world to bring to naught the wise.

Take heed the song:

So I set my mind to know wisdom and madness and folly; I learned that this, too, is a pursuit of the wind. For in much wisdom is much grief, And he who increases knowledge increases sorrow. (Ecc 1:17-18)
 
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