Changing Times.

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

Paul imitated Yahshua, not the Sun worshipers.

Why would anyone gather on any weekday?

"The Sunday Problem"- United Lutheran Church (1923), "We have seen how gradually the impression of the Jewish sabbath faded from the mind of the Christian Church, and how completely the newer thought underlying the observance of the first day took possession of the church. We have seen that the Christians of the first three centuries never confused one with the other, but for a time celebrated both."

Except it was never in imitation of sun worshipers that the Church began to worship primarily on this day.

 

[HARK!]

Are these people you quote more important than the ECFs?

Their commentary has value too; but ultimately we must listen to what YHWH says. Prove all things. Their words must agree with what YHWH says.

Lutheran- Dr. Augustus Neander, The History of the Christian Religion and Church (1843)"The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a Divine command in this respect, far from them, and from the early apostolic Church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday."

 

[GodsGrace101]

Deuteronomy 13
CLV(i) 1 In case there arises a prophet or a dreamer of dreams among you, and he gives to you a sign or a miracle, 2 and the sign or the miracle comes about, of which he spoke to you, saying:Let us go after other elohim (whom you have not known), and let us serve them, 3 you shall not hearken to the words of that prophet or to that dreamer of dreams because Yahweh your Elohim is probing you to know whether you are loving Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 After Yahweh your Elohim shall you go, and Him shall you fear; His instructions shall you observe, and to His voice shall you hearken; Him shall you serve, and to Him shall you cling. 5 Then that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death because he spoke of defection from Yahweh your Elohim (the One bringing you forth from the country of Egypt and the One ransoming you from the house of servants) so as to induce you from the way in which Yahweh your Elohim has instructed you to walk. Hence eradicate the evil from among you. 6 In case your brother, the son of your father, or the son of your mother or your son or your daughter or the wife of your bosom or your associate who is as your own soul should incite you in concealment, saying:Let us go, and let us serve other elohim (whom you have not known, you or your fathers, 7 of the elohim of the peoples who are around you, those near to you or those far from you, from one end of the land to the other end of the land). 8 neither shall you comply with him, nor shall you hearken to him; neither shall your eye commiserate over him, nor shall you spare him; and you shall not cover up for him. 9 For you shall kill, yea kill him. Your hand shall be among the first against him to put him to death, and the hand of all the people thereafter. 10 You will stone him with stones so that he dies, for he sought to induce you away from Yahweh your Elohim, the One bringing you forth from the country of Egypt, from the house of servants. 11 Thus all Israel shall hearken and fear, and they shall not again do anything like this evil thing among you. 12 In case you hear it said of one of your cities which Yahweh your Elohim is giving to you to dwell there, 13 that men, sons of decadence, have gone forth from among you and induced the dwellers of their city, saying:Let us go, and let us serve other elohim (whom you have not known), 14 then you will inquire, investigate and ask diligently. And behold, if the truth of the matter is being established that this abhorrence was done among you, 15 then you shall smite, yea smite the dwellers of that city with the edge of the sword. Doom it, all those who are in it and its domestic beasts, with the edge of the sword. 16 All its loot shall you get together to the middle of its square, and you will burn the city with fire and all its loot as a holocaust to Yahweh your Elohim. It will become an eonian barrow; it shall not be built again. 17 Nothing whatsoever shall cling to your hand from the doomed loot so that Yahweh may turn back from the heat of His anger and be compassionate to you. He will show you compassion and cause you to increase, just as He had sworn to your fathers, 18 provided that you shall hearken to the voice of Yahweh your Elohim to observe all His instructions which I am enjoining on you today, to do what is upright and good in the eyes of Yahweh your Elohim.

John was worshipping Yaweh.
The same Elohim that we worship.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Their commentary has value too; but ultimately we must listen to what YHWH says. Prove all things. Their words must agree with what YHWH says.

Lutheran- Dr. Augustus Neander, The History of the Christian Religion and Church (1843)"The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a Divine command in this respect, far from them, and from the early apostolic Church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday."

Was Jesus God?
He said the Sabbath was made for man...
Not man for the Sabbath.

But, I also understand what He meant by this.

Worship had become legalistic and the "normal" folk were not taught to be in spiritual contact with God....although some knew God on their own...as Romans 1:19-20 states.

 

[HARK!]

WHO are the sun worshippers?
The Romans?

Some of them:

Constantine was a sun worshiper. His coins were inscribed with "SOLI INVICTO COMITI," or companion to the sun god, until the day he died.

Constantine the Great (Latin: Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus; Ancient Greek: Κωνσταντῖνος ὁ Αύγουστος, romanized: Kōnstantînos ho Aúgoustos; 27 February c. AD 272 [1] – 22 May AD 337), also known as Constantine I,

Follis 306-337 n. Chr. CONSTANTIN I , LE GRAND (306-337) empire romain, Constantin I, Constantinus I, Follis de Trèves, R/ SOLI INVICTO COMITI, 4.93 Grs, SUP EF

 

[GodsGrace101]

Good night everyone....

 

[GodsGrace101]

Some of them:

Constantine was a sun worshiper. His coins were inscribed with "SOLI INVICTO COMITI," or companion to the sun god, until the day he died.

Constantine the Great (Latin: Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus; Ancient Greek: Κωνσταντῖνος ὁ Αύγουστος, romanized: Kōnstantînos ho Aúgoustos; 27 February c. AD 272 [1] – 22 May AD 337), also known as Constantine I,

Follis 306-337 n. Chr. CONSTANTIN I , LE GRAND (306-337) empire romain, Constantin I, Constantinus I, Follis de Trèves, R/ SOLI INVICTO COMITI, 4.93 Grs, SUP EF

Must leave...but the change was not due to his command...it was just confirmed at the Council of Nicea in 325AD.

 

[HARK!]

John was worshipping Yaweh.
The same Elohim that we worship.

Exodus 31
12 YAHWEH said to Moshe, 13 Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘You are to observe my Shabbats; for this is a sign between me and you through all your generations; so that you will know that I am YAHWEH, who sets you apart for me. 17 It is a sign between me and the people of Isra’el forever; for in six days ADONAI made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he stopped working and rested.’

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Some of them:

Constantine was a sun worshiper. His coins were inscribed with "SOLI INVICTO COMITI," or companion to the sun god, until the day he died.

Constantine the Great (Latin: Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus; Ancient Greek: Κωνσταντῖνος ὁ Αύγουστος, romanized: Kōnstantînos ho Aúgoustos; 27 February c. AD 272 [1] – 22 May AD 337), also known as Constantine I,

Follis 306-337 n. Chr. CONSTANTIN I , LE GRAND (306-337) empire romain, Constantin I, Constantinus I, Follis de Trèves, R/ SOLI INVICTO COMITI, 4.93 Grs, SUP EF

I suppose we shouldn't have a nuanced view of Constantine. We should use a single coin as evidence of his true beliefs and ignore everything else he said and did. He favoured the Church, he demolished pagan temples when he had the chance, that he got baptized on his deathbed, that he got rid of Pagan sacrifices and wanted to foster unity amongst Christians in the empire. Sounds like a totally dedicated pagan to me.

I'm willing to admit that Constantine wasn't perfect in either his devotion or moral life, but you really miss the wider context of his life when you isolate him like this based on one thing. It would be like saying Augustine was a Manichean heretic, but then you proceed to ignore everything he did after his conversion to Christianity.

 

[HARK!]

Was Jesus God?
He said the Sabbath was made for man...
Not man for the Sabbath.

But, I also understand what He meant by this.

Worship had become legalistic and the "normal" folk were not taught to be in spiritual contact with God....although some knew God on their own...as Romans 1:19-20 states.

In verse 19, Paul refers to του theou. This is a reference to YHWH, not Yahshua.

Lutheran- Dr. Augustus Neander, The History of the Christian Religion and Church (1843)"The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a Divine command in this respect, far from them, and from the early apostolic Church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday."

 

[HARK!]

Must leave...but the change was not due to his command...it was just confirmed at the Council of Nicea in 325AD.

John Theodore Mueller (a Lutheran) - Sabbath or Sunday- "But they err in teaching that Sunday has taken the place of the Old Testament Sabbath and therefore must be kept as the seventh day had to be kept by the children of Israel .... These churches err in their teaching, for Scripture has in no way ordained the first day of the week in place of the Sabbath. There is simply no law in the New Testament to that effect."

 

[HARK!]

he got baptized on his deathbed,

Do you have any verifiable proof of this?

"Take the matter of Sunday. There are indications in the New Testament as to how the church came to keep the first day of the week as its day of worship, but there is no passage telling Christians to keep that day, or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath to that day." Methodist- Harris Franklin Rall, Christian Advocate, July 2, 1942

 

[Beachlover]

He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws.

Constantine decreed (March 7, 321) dies Solis—day of the sun, "Sunday"—as the Roman day of rest just prior to the Council of Nicaea:

“On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for grain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.”

Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ. (Canon 29 [A.D. 360]). (The Church Council of Laodicea circa 364 CE)

"The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third (fourth) Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day." The Catholic Encyclopedia Topic: Ten Commandments, 2nd paragraph

"We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy, catholic, apostolic church of Christ."--Episcopalian Bishop Seymour said in "Why We Keep Sunday."

SHABBAT SHALOM!

I don't like change

 

[HARK!]

I don't like change

Methodist, Clovis G. Chappell- Ten Rules For Living- 'The reason we observe the first day instead of the seventh is based on no positive command. One will search the Scriptures in vain for authority for changing from the seventh day to the first."

 

[HARK!]

(CLV) Ac 13:13
Now setting out from Paphos, those about Paul came to Perga of Pamphylia. Yet John, departing from them, returns ioto Jerusalem.

(CLV) Ac 13:14
Now they, passing through from Perga, came along into Antioch, Pisidia, and, entering into the synagogue the day of the sabbaths, they are seated.

 

[HARK!]

(CLV) Ac 17:2
Now, as was Paul's custom, he entered to them, and on three sabbaths he argues with them from the scriptures,

 

[HARK!]

(CLV) Lk 4:16
And He came to Nazareth, where He was reared, and, according to His custom on the day of the sabbaths, He entered into the synagogue and rose to read.

 

[HARK!]

(CLV) Ac 13:42
Now, at their being out, they entreated that these declarations be spoken to them on the intervening sabbath.

(CLV) Ac 13:43
Now the synagogue having broken up, many of the Jews and the reverent proselytes follow Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to remain in the grace of God.

 

[visionary]

I understand that.
So you believe those that were taught by the Apostles were wrong in worshipping on Sunday?
Wouldn't they have known?

The apostles never taught worshipping on Sunday. There was no reason to.

 

[visionary]

I see, you want to violate the law by not killing your disobedient Children. Alright, but that makes you guilty of not following God's law. You should eagerly proclaim that we need to legislate and kill our disobedient children without mercy in accordance with Torah. Why hesitate?

That being said I have no contention with you regarding Sunday being a day of rest mandated in the bible. It isn't, rather what it is, is the day of worship for the Christian community. It is literally called the Lord's day in the early Christian tradition.

Separating ordinances which the legal country determines is different than the TEN which God wrote. Moses wrote on parchment from which you get the disobedient children rule. That is not in the TEN which God wrote.