Changing Times.

[HARK!]

Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Leviticus 24:8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.

Hallelu YAH!

The Catholic Mirror Sept.9, 1893- "We deem it necessary to be perfectly clear on this point....The Bible- the Old Testament- confirmed by the living tradition of weekly practice for 3383 years by the chosen people of God, teaches, then, with absolute certainty, that God had, Himself, named the day "to be kept holy to Him"- that the day was Saturday, and that any violation of that command was punishable with death."

 

[solid_core]

The Catholic Mirror (a publication by Cardinal Gibbons) Sept. 2, 1893- "...the Redeemer, during His mortal life, never kept any other day than Saturday."

(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

Irrelevant quotations, both.

We are not living according to some catholic journal or according to some isolated verses. ;-)

 

[GodsGrace101]

He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws.

Constantine decreed (March 7, 321) dies Solis—day of the sun, "Sunday"—as the Roman day of rest just prior to the Council of Nicaea:

“On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for grain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.”

Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ. (Canon 29 [A.D. 360]). (The Church Council of Laodicea circa 364 CE)

"The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third (fourth) Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day." The Catholic Encyclopedia Topic: Ten Commandments, 2nd paragraph

"We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy, catholic, apostolic church of Christ."--Episcopalian Bishop Seymour said in "Why We Keep Sunday."

SHABBAT SHALOM!

It's not due to the Catholic Church.
The change was DECLARED and CONFIRMED in about the year 320AD

However, the Early Church Fathers believed in Sunday Worship because they felt it proper to celebrate the day of Jesus' resurrection.

They had been banned from Temple worship by the year 100AD and had thus had to start a whole new religion.

They were no longer Jews that believed Jesus was the Messiah, but the were now full-fledged Christians.

I just realized I'm very behind in this conversation.
Sorry.

 

[HARK!]

Irrelevant quotations, both.

How's that?

Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine Third Edition"1). Question: Which is the Sabbath day? "Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day. 2). "Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?"Answer. "We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church in the Council of Laodicea, transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."

 

[HARK!]

However, the Early Church Fathers believed in Sunday Worship because they felt it proper to celebrate the day of Jesus' resurrection.

There were some who worshiped on SUNday; yet others followed Yahshua.

Episcopal - 'The Bible commandment says on the seventh day thou shalt rest. That is Saturday. Nowhere in the Bible is it laid down that worship should be done on Sunday." Philip Carrington, Toronto Daily Star, October 26, 1949.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

You cannot actually change a law that is no longer in place.

Your quote from Daniel was about Antiochus Epiphanes. Not about the Christian era.

Is this law also no longer in place

Exodus 20 King James Version (KJV)

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Or only the fourth of the ten is no longer in place?

 

[HARK!]

It's not due to the Catholic Church.
The change was DECLARED and CONFIRMED in about the year 320AD

Martin J. Scott- Things Catholics Are Asked About (1927) "Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday .... Now the Church ... instituted, by God's authority, Sunday as the day of worship. This same Church, by the same divine authority, taught the doctrine of Purgatory long before the Bible was made. We have, therefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday."

 

[Minister Monardo]

Maybe I did fail to comprehend. What does any of that have to do with the topic of this thread, the changing of times?

You are being vague. To be specific, the topic is the Sabbath, as is the short essay I posted.
Just because you may not have ever thought about it in this particular light doesn't make it irrelevant.
On the contrary, it makes it that much more relevant.
So I will ask you this, does resting on Shabbat fulfill the commandment? If so, are there only 9 commandments the other six days of the week? Do you fully understand the idea of zakar?
Exodus 20:8. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

 

[visionary]

No bigger authority that Yeshua who said "Sabbath was made for man" and as the Lord of the Sabbath, He should know.

 

[HARK!]

You are being vague. To be specific, the topic is the Sabbath,

No it's not. I wrote the OP. I say what it is about. The title of this thread reveals a telling clue. It's about changing the Sabbath day from YHWH's appointed time, to SUNday.


John Laux- A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies (1 936) "Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the New Law, that He Himself has explicitly substituted the Sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is now entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His Church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as Holy Days. The Church chose Sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days."

 

[Minister Monardo]

No it's not. I wrote the OP. I say what it is about.

Acknowledging that as the case, could you clarify whether or not there are a clear two sides of this discussion, or is it many sided?

 

[HARK!]

Acknowledging that as the case, could you clarify whether of not there are a clear two sides of this discussion, or is it many sided?

I see two sides. One who follows YHWH's word, and another who rebels against YHWH. Do you see any other?

Peter R. Kraemer- Catholic Church Extension Society (1975), Chicago, Illinois. "Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:"1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man."2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws. "It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible."

 

[Minister Monardo]

I see two sides. One who follows YHWH's word, and another who rebels against YHWH. Do you see any other?

No. In fact, that is exactly what I suspected. I respect Messianic Fellowship keeping Shabbat on Friday night/Saturday morning. (At least from my experience that was the case.) I just don't see why you deem this question irrelevant.
Does resting on Shabbat fulfill the commandment? If so, are there only 9 commandments the other six days of the week?
Exodus 20:8. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Do you fully understand the idea of zakar?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Hey Hark, since you want to obey the Torah, how do you propose we go about executing our disobedient children?

Also, hark, the Lord's day (Κυριακή in Greek) had been the primary day of worship in the Christian community before Constantine.

 

[HARK!]

No. In fact, that is exactly what I suspected. I respect Messianic Fellowship keeping Shabbat on Friday night/Saturday morning. (At least from my experience that was the case.) I just don't see why you deem this question irrelevant.
Does resting on Shabbat fulfill the commandment? If so, are there only 9 commandments the other six days of the week?
Exodus 20:8. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Do you fully understand the idea of zakar?

Again, the subject of this thread is about the changing of YHWH's appointment with adam.

Please stay on topic.

Anglican- Isaac Williams- Plain Sermons on the Catechism "And where are we told in the Scriptures that we are to keep the first day at all? We are commanded to keep the seventh; but we are nowhere commanded to keep the first day .... The reason why we keep the first day of the week holy instead of the seventh is for the same reason that we observe many other things, not because the Bible, but because the church has enjoined it."

 

[GodsGrace101]

There were some who worshiped on SUNday; yet others followed Yahshua.

Episcopal - 'The Bible commandment says on the seventh day thou shalt rest. That is Saturday. Nowhere in the Bible is it laid down that worship should be done on Sunday." Philip Carrington, Toronto Daily Star, October 26, 1949.

I understand that.
So you believe those that were taught by the Apostles were wrong in worshipping on Sunday?
Wouldn't they have known?

 

[HARK!]

Hey Hark, since you want to obey the Torah, how do you propose we go about executing our disobedient children?

This thread is about the changing of one of YHWH's Kadosh days. Please stay on topic.

Protestant- Canon Eyton,- The Ten Commandments "There is no word, no hint, in the New Testament about abstaining from work on Sunday ... into the rest of Sunday no divine law enters ... The observance of Ash Wednesday or Lent stands exactly on the same footing as the observance of Sunday."

 

[HARK!]

I understand that.
So you believe those that were taught by the Apostles were wrong in worshipping on Sunday?
Wouldn't they have known?

I believe that we are called to worship incessantly; but what does have to do with honoring YHWH's Shabbat?

Exodus 31
12 YAHWEH said to Moshe, 13 Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘You are to observe my Shabbats; for this is a sign between me and you through all your generations; so that you will know that I am YAHWEH, who sets you apart for me. 17 It is a sign between me and the people of Isra’el forever; for in six days ADONAI made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he stopped working and rested.’

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

This thread is about the changing of one of YHWH's Kadosh days. Please stay on topic.

Protestant- Canon Eyton,- The Ten Commandments "There is no word, no hint, in the New Testament about abstaining from work on Sunday ... into the rest of Sunday no divine law enters ... The observance of Ash Wednesday or Lent stands exactly on the same footing as the observance of Sunday."

I see, you want to violate the law by not killing your disobedient Children. Alright, but that makes you guilty of not following God's law. You should eagerly proclaim that we need to legislate and kill our disobedient children without mercy in accordance with Torah. Why hesitate?

That being said I have no contention with you regarding Sunday being a day of rest mandated in the bible. It isn't, rather what it is, is the day of worship for the Christian community. It is literally called the Lord's day in the early Christian tradition.

 

[HARK!]

Also, hark, the Lord's day (Κυριακή in Greek) had been the primary day of worship in the Christian community before Constantine.

Episcopal - 'The Bible commandment says on the seventh day thou shalt rest. That is Saturday. Nowhere in the Bible is it laid down that worship should be done on Sunday." Philip Carrington, Toronto Daily Star, October 26, 1949.