Changed my Faith Icon to Agnostic:Explanation

[ProScribe]

Why would Jesus call someone, then turn their mind reprobabe? [unless you are talking about "Judas"] Just curious

By the way, I looked up the Gospel passages concerning the infamous Judas.

 

[Mythunderstood]

Since God has already made Himself known to many, obviously means God IS REAL.

Say what? Big Foot made himself known to many people. Does that make Big Foot real? Same thing could be said for aliens. People attributing various experiences to "god" does not mean a "god" actually exists. You had an experience of god which is why you believe in him, but don't expect anyone else to believe based on your experience.

And the reason God speaks to you in your INNERMOST-part of you, is because this is How... God you created, starting with your soul.
And God did that, so that you could not deny Him, so easily.

Yep, I knew the whole "quiet, innermost voice" excuse was coming. That is BS. Sorry to be so blunt.

If it's only a fire-cracker event, or the dead being raised,
people find a million excuses what that was.
so
God set it up in such a way that you CAN'T easily deny Him.

That's why I specifically said that he should do whatever it takes to convince each individual person of his existence if they are genuinely seeking him. For some, it may be something as simple as causing a "coincidence" to happen that makes the person realize that something (god) is there. For someone else, it may take a stronger form of convincing. God should know what it would take.

As for god setting it up in such a way that you can't easily deny him....well, that sort of backfired on him, didn't it? Most people can more easily deny what's not there. I mean, if they get no response after seeking god for years, then it would be very easy to deny his existence.

You gotta meet God on God's terms IF you wanna be Saved.

How do we even know what "god's terms" are if he won't even acknowledge us? If I were to have an actual experience or something (anything!) that would let me know a god existed (and which god!), then I could at least say I have knowledge of god. At that point I could then choose to accept/reject him.

 

[Noxot]

But many of us HAVE genuinely searched for god and sincerely prayed....for decades! Why does your god like to play these childish games if he supposedly really wants to save us? With his omniscience, he already knows that we have been searching, but yet he is still a no-show. Many Christians try to explain this away by laying the blame on the seeker as if we have any control over what god does. They try to say that we have to be still and listen for that quiet voice, blah blah blah. If god knows we are searching for him why does he not respond in a way that would convince us unquestionably. Only he would know what it would take to do that for each individual person. If he really loved us as is posited, then he would stop with the silly games. That is not love.

what kind of proof are you speaking about? and what exactly do you think salvation is? you must be born again to be a part of the kingdom of God. i could tell you all kinds of things but you would not believe me because they are foolish to you. then what you thought was foolish you will no more regard as the truth. then all that is left is what you think is logical and correct according to the view you have in your deadness. you use your unborn again mind to try and see things that one must be born again to see.

why is God so hidden in such darkness in this world? it must be some part of the plans of God for it to be the way things are if God does indeed exist. but if you are wise in your own eyes then you will never see God because God resist the puffed up but to the humble he shows himself. but the humble man is called insane because he refuses to be puffed up like he used to be.
<staff edit>

 

[LoAmmi]

what kind of proof are you speaking about? and what exactly do you think salvation is? you must be born again to be a part of the kingdom of God. i could tell you all kinds of things but you would not believe me because they are foolish to you. then what you thought was foolish you will no more regard as the truth. then all that is left is what you think is logical and correct according to the view you have in your deadness. you use your unborn again mind to try and see things that one must be born again to see.

Isaiah 1:18 says HaShem said "come let us reason together".

This paragraph seems to say "reason is bad".

Whom should I trust?

 

[Noxot]

Isaiah 1:18 says HaShem said "come let us reason together".

This paragraph seems to say "reason is bad".

Whom should I trust?

reason is terrible without God. its like trying to fly with only one wing, is that even possible? maybe with a really strong tornado it is possible, but then again anyone can fly with a tornado!

 

[LoAmmi]

reason is terrible without God. its like trying to fly with only one wing, is that even possible?

Helicopters do not have any wings and fly alright.

So, we need HaShem for reason. But I have to abandon reason to find what you consider to be the truth for me to get reason back? I cannot follow that.

 

[Noxot]

Helicopters do not have any wings and fly alright.

So, we need HaShem for reason. But I have to abandon reason to find what you consider to be the truth for me to get reason back? I cannot follow that.

tbh I just threw my one winged body away so that God would give me a 6 winged body. I want to drink the entire river jordan and be one with it, now i know I can not do that but behemoth can do that much better than humans can. might as well discard the inferior to gain something better. God is better. and only God matters. soulless helicopters are made with the hands of men, i want more than that.

God is the creator, I want more breaths of Him in me. transformation is possible, enoch transformed. so can I, God is not a respecter of persons. i don't need human logic, it does not give enough glory to God, I want more so i can say "Holy Holy Holy" like Isaiah was transformed into after he saw. God can transform me, I have faith in Him. only He matters to me.

 

[LoAmmi]

There is nothing I can say to what you have just posted. I cannot find a point to latch onto so that I could comment.

 

[sk8Joyful]

what exactly do you think salvation is? you must be born again to be a part of the kingdom of God.

why is God so hidden in such darkness in this world?
if you are wise in your own eyes then you will never see God
because God resists the puffed up, but to the humble he shows himself.

Right.

While Jesus walked the earth, those SEEing His miracles, were just like atheists everywhere: they rationalized, & excused themselves, & outright refused to believe, even after "physical proof". why? because they did NOT wanna. - So Jesus said to the few, who got their act in gear: John 20:29 "Jesus said to Thomas, "You believe because you've seen me. Blessed are those who haven't seen me but believe ."
and
God/Jesus specifically said: Want to live in Heaven? - Convert, and become as a little child.
Why would God ask a grown person, to revert AS as little? child.
Obviously because a little child is teach-able.
God knew He could teach me as a Kindergartner (even in a communist-country); God knew I would to Him listen... and I did.

(in stark contrast: are atheists the world over, who DONT wanna be saved, DONT wanna convert,
DONT wanna listen as a little child; - and then blame God, for their stupidity.
And such nonsense they call "logic" ) and God said
that they too, to their peril failing - will have their reward.

Either way, God has done His part in all the ways He can,
short of 'force'; but God will never force you to Heaven,
so you can say "God forced me into Heaven, & I don't even wanna be here". - No,
No.
God will allow you the reward... you demonstrate to Him, as a mortal.

 

[LoAmmi]

While Jesus walked the earth, those SEEing His miracles, were just like atheists everywhere: they rationalized, & excused themselves, & outright refused to believe, even after "physical proof". why? because they did NOT wanna

Why? Why would they not want this?

 

[LoAmmi]

(in stark contrast: are atheists the world over, who DONT wanna be saved, DONT wanna convert,
DONT wanna listen as a little child; - and then blame God, for their stupidity.
And such nonsense they call "logic" ) and God said
that they too, to their peril failing - will have their reward.

Why in your comparisons are there only atheists and Christians? I have searched in my life and I truly see that HaShem leads me back to the synagogue every time. I would never say that your journey is wrong, yet I suspect I will be told that my journey is.

 

[sk8Joyful]

Soulless helicopters are made with the hands of men, i want more than that.

God is the creator, I want more breaths of Him in me. Transformation is possible, Enoch transformed. so can I, God is not a respecter of persons.

i don't need human logic, it does not give enough glory to God,
I want more so i can say "Holy Holy Holy" like Isaiah was transformed into after he saw.
God can transform me, I have faith in Him. only He matters to me.

(like per my reps to you): Good! for *you* Keep it UP *you* are on the Right path...

 

[Noxot]

God is Father of us all. the reward I get is to take care of some of his babies together with Him whether it be in this world or the world to come, it matters not for me because the seventh day and the eighth day are the same thing to me.

just as the star of david has 6 points and the middle is the 7th day, so also is the entire star the eighth day.

do you want to see a wretched person? do you want to see someone more blind than an atheist? do you want to see the kind of people that often help atheist to become what they are?

Matt 23:13 (YLT)
`Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye shut up the reign of the heavens before men, for ye do not go in, nor those going in do ye suffer to enter.

let us all make sure we who seek God are not hypocrites/play actors least we keep others from finding God. I am ofc in no way blaming the jews for this, whoever does the works of those men in Matt 23:13 are the ones at fault.

 

[Noxot]

Why in your comparisons are there only atheists and Christians? I have searched in my life and I truly see that HaShem leads me back to the synagogue every time. I would never say that your journey is wrong, yet I suspect I will be told that my journey is.

O so you maybe can see that you are in the wilderness on a journey in which moses listed 42 different stages?

if you are then welcome to the second captivity, the first was egypt and the second is in the wilderness. 40 is the number for captivity. 2 often the number for divisions. good and bad. there are also 2 witnesses. and those 2 agree as one.

Num 32:11-13 (ESV)
‘Surely none of the men who came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land that I swore to give to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, because they have not wholly followed me, none except Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenizzite and Joshua the son of Nun, for they have wholly followed the Lord.’ And the Lord's anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation that had done evil in the sight of the Lord was gone.

now here is a sample of the meaning of the 42 stages in the wilderness. 40 is the number for captivity and now here we see 2 free men that "wholly followed the Lord." now there are other examples of 2 that "wholly followed the Lord" but those seeking God will have to ask God to show them. contemplation of names helps.

Num 14:35 (ESV)
I, the Lord, have spoken. Surely this will I do to all this wicked congregation who are gathered together against me: in this wilderness they shall come to a full end, and there they shall die.”

this is where we die and this is were we get out of captivity. we are the wicked house, just admit that a little uncleanness of the soul makes one filthy in the eyes of the Lord! those things must be destroyed for God is Holy Holy Holy.

John 15:26-27 (ESV)
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. And you also will bear witness, because you have been with me from the beginning.

this is the 2 who witness on the earth. and show in many types through out the bible. Jesus Christ will show you who you are.

Rom 8:16 (ESV)
The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

you must be born again. you must die to live. die in the wilderness to live in the land of promise. the wilderness is a fire and a journey and a refining of all who left egypt and seek YAH. and so i keep telling people that believe in God to "seek YAH only, only YAH matters". not their flesh, the first captivity, not their soul, the second captivity. the Spirit of God is freedom. hate your soul, and God will give you something better. be low and God will raise you up while you rest on his hand. we can do nothing without God. do not be wise in your own eyes, and wisdom will fill you up.

no one hears me when i say that the "OT" contains types and shadow, parables and riddles. why is everyone so satisfied when they are not like moses and Isiah and ectect? you have deceived yourselves! only seek YAH, only seek YAH. most people build an idol of God with their hands and bow down to it. this idol is the mark of the beast that imprints its wicked lie in the hand and mind of those seeking after God. we need the mark of God in our hand and our head, the mark of God, his very own Spirit. the entire point of this world is to seek YAH only.

 

[LoAmmi]

I seriously do not understand anything you say here. The thoughts seem to progress without a clear train, the words are there but nothing is explained. You seem to be assuming I do not follow HaShem.

O so you maybe can see that you are in the wilderness on a journey in which moses listed 42 different stages?

if you are then welcome to the second captivity, the first was egypt and the second is in the wilderness. 40 is the number for captivity. 2 often the number for divisions. good and bad. there are also 2 witnesses. and those 2 agree as one.

Num 32:11-13 (ESV)
‘Surely none of the men who came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land that I swore to give to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, because they have not wholly followed me, none except Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenizzite and Joshua the son of Nun, for they have wholly followed the Lord.’ And the Lord's anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation that had done evil in the sight of the Lord was gone.

now here is a sample of the meaning of the 42 stages in the wilderness. 40 is the number for captivity and now here we see 2 free men that "wholly followed the Lord." now there are other examples of 2 that "wholly followed the Lord" but those seeking God will have to ask God to show them. contemplation of names helps.

Num 14:35 (ESV)
I, the Lord, have spoken. Surely this will I do to all this wicked congregation who are gathered together against me: in this wilderness they shall come to a full end, and there they shall die.”

this is where we die and this is were we get out of captivity. we are the wicked house, just admit that a little uncleanness of the soul makes one filthy in the eyes of the Lord! those things must be destroyed for God is Holy Holy Holy.

John 15:26-27 (ESV)
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. And you also will bear witness, because you have been with me from the beginning.

this is the 2 who witness on the earth. and show in many types through out the bible. Jesus Christ will show you who you are.

Rom 8:16 (ESV)
The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

you must be born again. you must die to live. die in the wilderness to live in the land of promise. the wilderness is a fire and a journey and a refining of all who left egypt and seek YAH. and so i keep telling people that believe in God to "seek YAH only, only YAH matters". not their flesh, the first captivity, not their soul, the second captivity. the Spirit of God is freedom. hate your soul, and God will give you something better. be low and God will raise you up while you rest on his hand. we can do nothing without God. do not be wise in your own eyes, and wisdom will fill you up.

no one hears me when i say that the "OT" contains types and shadow, parables and riddles. why is everyone so satisfied when they are not like moses and Isiah and ectect? you have deceived yourselves! only seek YAH, only seek YAH. most people build an idol of God with their hands and bow down to it. this idol is the mark of the beast that imprints its wicked lie in the hand and mind of those seeking after God. we need the mark of God in our hand and our head, the mark of God, his very own Spirit. the entire point of this world is to seek YAH only.

 

[Noxot]

I seriously do not understand anything you say here. The thoughts seem to progress without a clear train, the words are there but nothing is explained. You seem to be assuming I do not follow HaShem.

you are on a path seeking God, we are always seeking after God. if I advanced more than you because of the grace of God, and I told you about God more and God let you understand, then you have been blessed by God and not man. if you did not judge me as something that I am not, but had peace and humbleness within yourself, then you have been blessed by God in that manner.

the things I said are spiritual and not according to the ways of this world. God is the only one who can make you understand. the word of God is much much deeper than people give it credit for. they are spirit, they are life. if i am a child of God then i will type the things of God. if no one understands what i said, it does not change the fact that I have the Spirit of God with me. people can judge me however they want but if it is not a correct judgement then they have deceived themselves. it is true that I am weak and can not speak very well, that is why i hope that the grace of God will be upon you when you read something.

what am I trying to do? I am not trying to offend even if that does happen in the end. I am doing the best i can for God, the only person i want to please is God. but you seem kind of wise to me because you said "you seem" instead of "you are saying". i know the things I said are hard to understand. only God can show you that all things I said are not to condemn you. but evil angels will accuse me in your mind, but I know my heart for all of you. plus there are good angels that help all of us to God.

only God can give anything Good. if He does not give it then it has become evil. I still say God has given you blessings already because you did not attack me like some people would. i think that right there shows God has given you some humbleness already and some prudence too. just know that i am not attacking you like a hypocrite attacks people, that would give me joy if you believe that i was not trying to put chains on you. the only Chains you need are God.

i don't know how to explain things to people. maybe I can try to speak simple words and people will understand. God is our Father. only God is good. God Loves all of us, that is why we are not consumed. our soul is not good enough to understand God, our spirit is cold without God, the closer we get to God, the hotter it gets. the hotter the better. peace.

 

[Catherineanne]

come on back if u don't find what you are looking for...seriously. God is only a 180 degree turn away no matter what path you are on.

Good Luck in life and your journey....

Well, yes and no. We are always facing God, no matter what direction we are going in, so certainly he is 180 degrees behind us, but he is also straight in front as well.

As long as the OP is acting with integrity in his search, I am certain the Lord will go with him; after all, Our Lord wandered in the wilderness for 40 days after his baptism, being tempted to do all sorts of things, and came through safe and sound. If he can do it, so can we.

 

[Catherineanne]

Why in your comparisons are there only atheists and Christians? I have searched in my life and I truly see that HaShem leads me back to the synagogue every time. I would never say that your journey is wrong, yet I suspect I will be told that my journey is.

I understand this. My Roman Catholic friends are convinced that I should follow them into their church, but whenever I make even a tentative step towards doing so, the message is a clear but polite no. Otoh, when I step towards the faith that I was born into, the doors open, in very unexpected ways.

I have learned to recognise the hand of God in this subtle, quiet, opening or closing of doors. I see no reason why you should experience anything different; the faith you were born into is an ancient and honourable one, so why would the Lord not encourage you to remain faithful to it?

A jouney is never 'wrong' if taken with integrity, and with every intention of following wherever the Lord leads.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I've decided that I was Agnostic about Jesus. Many different people on the Internet have expressed different views and resulted in a wide variety of possible conclusions. I still have a traditional Christian background and studied the religion of Christianity for about 12 years (private study) before deciding that becoming Agnostic was the best conclusion.

I also became interested Buddhism and liked some of the stuff I read. I also became interested in Pyschology and Psychiatry as means of treatment for various kinds of mental illnesses, but I'm not attending Medical School or anything like that.

So, I have resources and libraries at my disposal to learn and study about pretty much anything outside of a school curriculum.

I'm pretty much my own boss and get to decide what I want to study.

SOunds like my days in college. I think Pro will find what he's "searching" for in himself. That, and that what he really enjoys is the searching and asking...not the answers. Have fun.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Helicopters do not have any wings and fly alright.

So, we need HaShem for reason. But I have to abandon reason to find what you consider to be the truth for me to get reason back? I cannot follow that.

Isn't HaShem the only one that can forgive sins?

Jesus also tried to reason with the corrupt Jewish rulers in the NT
Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV

NKJV Luke5 21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, "Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, He answered and said to them, "Why are you reasoning in your hearts?
23 "Which is easier, to say, 'Your sins are forgiven you,' or to say, 'Rise up and walk'?
24 "But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins" -- He said to the man who was paralyzed, "I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house."

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus
Jesus vs the Pharisees


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