Change to the Appeals process, changes to Staff and a few other things

[drstevej]

Thanks for the hard work in the change over.

 

[Heber]

Can't see the point in arguing - I'll lose!

 

[Bombila]

hello paulers

IMHO FWIW

the closing of GA was the 'best' thing that ever happened at this forum

Your lack of caring for those who were deeply saddened by that undertaking is noted.

 

[arborvita]

Is there going to be a posting on the changes in the forums?

The Linguistics and Educators subforums under Society are now gone or moved somewhere. Is it possible to have them in an archived area - with view only privileges?

If the goal is to reduce the size of this entire forum so that it is not so sluggish, then I understand that you must prune old or dying subforums just like you prune trees, then we can bear better fruit hopefully.

You are spot in your analogy we did the pruning to remove the inactive forums.

 

[drstevej]

The New Ask a chaplain Forum is awesome.
Thanks

 

[Chaplain David]

So, is this thread primarily a notice thread of what has been decided or is it soliciting input to help you make some decisions you think are necessary?

 

[arborvita]

So, is this thread primarily a notice thread of what has been decided or is it soliciting input to help you make some decisions you think are necessary?

To serve as notice for changes that have been done.

The New Ask a chaplain Forum is awesome.
Thanks

Glad you like the changes DrSteveJ

 

[seajoy]

How is the decision to remove certain mods being made? Are they asked to quit of their own will, or are they just booted off?

 

[Chaplain David]

To serve as notice for changes that have been done.


Hey thanks Matt. I just had an idea. Since making decisions in a bubble can sometimes result in tunnelvision why not put some feelers out in the form of polls, posts, or pming senior members or ex staff. Despite the complaining I think everyone wants CF to work better and people would be more than willing to help and happy to do so. It would be kind of like a participatory management thing.

 

[meh]

How is the decision to remove certain mods being made? Are they asked to quit of their own will, or are they just booted off?

If there were some who had done no work for several months and didn't respond to PMs from their admins asking why, they were removed, yes.

 

[arborvita]

How is the decision to remove certain mods being made? Are they asked to quit of their own will, or are they just booted off?

Several factors are being taken into consideration, looking at activity, productivity, etc. If a staffer was removed they were contacted.

 

[arborvita]

To serve as notice for changes that have been done.

Hey thanks Matt. I just had an idea. Since making decisions in a bubble can sometimes result in tunnelvision why not put some feelers out in the form of polls, posts, or pming senior members or ex staff. Despite the complaining I think everyone wants CF to work better and people would be more than willing to help and happy to do so. It would be kind of like a participatory management thing.

When we make changes we seek out input from members and staffers. While it may not be done publicly we are in contact with folks.

 

[Risen Tree]

First things first, I want to thank staff for not closing this thread. It is good to see that at the very least, dialogue about forum matters is allowed. In the long run, I think that doing this repeatedly will make staff's job easier, not harder.

In some faith/congregational forums, the members look at the faith icon of a newcomer and assume the worst before the newcomer has a chance to really post anything meaningful, or judge the person for what they sense is sarcasm when it is not.



I was not talking about GA. I had quite forgotten about those forums as they have been out of sight, out of mind for a long time now. However, viewing what goes on in the faith or congregational areas is enough to cause some people to question Christianity. And what really caught my attention is the number of former CF mods who have lost their faith. They are the ones in the crossfire of the congregational debates and get all the venom.

As one such person, I can confidently say that it's a lot more complex than that. And the above had little to do with my deconversion.

hello paulers

IMHO FWIW

the closing of GA was the 'best' thing that ever happened at this forum

Yes, if you didn't mind outright declaring that arguments for Christianity were no match for arguments against it. That's right, that was the ultimate message sent by GA's ill-advised shutdown. It did not look good for Christianity.

 

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

The same suggestions I have been making here and there since GA was destroyed: there is a strong desire among both Christians and agnostics/atheists for some place where we can discuss theology and apologetics and Christian history on a relatively even footing. Provide one.

There is a kneejerk reaction on the part of some that 'most atheists/agnostics just want to bash Christians/Christianity'. That is false. A good many of us are genuinely interested in religion. By that I do not mean we are interested in converting to Christianity, though that has happened and may happen. I mean that unbelievers like myself are a tiny minority compared to the number of believers in the world and as such would like to understand what it is that, in this case, Christians, experience that causes them to believe, how beliefs have changed, how different groups interpret scripture, and so on.

There are plenty Christians who are members of CF who would welcome the opportunity to converse with us on those forbidden subjects. There is no need to open the current CO areas to agnostics/atheists. Just provide one place where we can talk. One place where an errant question about the whys and hows and whens of Christianity is not deleted because it is 'apologetics and cannot be discussed'. Society has actually had to place an ALL CAPS warning on the front page to remind people not to talk about apologetics. This is beyond absurd.

CF lost members who were educated and knowledgeable Christian scholars because of this peculiar method of 'protecting' vulnerable Christians. I would argue other areas of the board are far more likely to disturb beliefs than a frank discussion of the actual subject of belief.

I ask that you at least consider this carefully, without prejudice over the fact of my being an agnostic member of CF - since 2006.

When reading this thread, I read your original question.

I second this request myself. I always enjoyed this type of interaction on other Christian sites, and it was only on this one where I came across the attitude that such interactions were a bad idea.

Please let me know what, if anything, comes of this. I'd like to participate in such a forum, should it come about. Thank you.

 

[desmalia]

First of all, Tonks, I just have to tell you... CF is dieing. Someone had to say it.

J/K. I've never thought it was dieing. Maybe it's struggling lately, sure. It's a season. That's how it goes. Forums are tricky things. But I really think that as long as we have some semblance of free speech in the world, CF will exist in some form. There's no need for any of us to fear that it will some day die. So, ya do what ya can and carry on, right? And, regardless of how tough it's been, CF is still the biggest, most active Christian forum on the Internet (that I've seen, anyway). My primary concern has always been how Christ is represented here (both in love and in truth).

---------------------------

Now, on to more important things:

I learned you guys have something called "Canada Cake" which sounds absolutely delicious.

There's such a thing as "Canada Cake"? I've honestly never heard of that before! And I was born and raised here! lol. I know we've got great banana bread, and Nanaimo bars... but Canada Cake? Hmm.. Will have to investigate.

OK, back to the topic at hand. (Ya, I know y'all have been waiting with baited breath for my all-important opinion, right? )

It's interesting to see big changes happening all of a sudden. I wasn't expecting that. And I use the word interesting, because I can't say whether I'll like it or not. I am optimistic, though.

I'm glad that you clarified about the safe haven issue. I think that will have to be maintained if you want to keep the bulk of the Christian member base right now. Like it or not, Christians do come here to talk with other Christians, not to be ridiculed, attacked, belittled, etc. However, I also hope that changes that are coming down the line will open up more of CF as a whole so that more of us feel safer in venturing out to other areas. Personally, I've not been comfortable doing so for quite some time now. And it's a shame too, as I do like to talk with people of different beliefs.

I think it's excellent that you're consolidating the quieter forums. Someone called it "pruning" earlier. I like that idea. It's good to clear out some cobwebs now and then on forums. Makes it easier for new members to navigate as well.

I am a little concerned about cutting down on staff so much. Of course if you have staff who are no longer really participating, that is necessary. But I've so often been reminded of how overworked the existing staff is. And I've seen how long it can be for action to be taken because of that. I hope this current change will not add more work to already too-heavy work loads for existing staff. Will more be taken on to help them in the future? Currently, whenever we see anything we believe to be an infraction, we're told to report it. But at the same time, I think most of us feel guilty for reporting anything because we know how hard you guys are already working to keep things running.

I was also wondering if there will be a place that lists who current staff members are. I know that's up to you guys to decide how much to reveal to the general membership. I've personally just always found it helpful to know who is staff.

I've noticed that whenever these threads come up, and members express concerns, etc. we're often told to go to the complaints/suggestions area. Thing is, (and I assume many others feel this way too), I think there's a kind of vibe that we get from that whole thing. It comes across like "we don't want to deal with you here, so go over there where we can shut you down or ignore you.". I'm sure that's not anyone's intention. But none the less, that's how it feels from a lowly member's point of view these days. Just to let you guys know. I think that's why you do see so many opinions being expressed in these kinds of threads, even beyond the scope of the current topic.

And finally, I want to say how glad I am that CF is no longer going to try to be everything for everyone. I always considered that to be an effort in futility and frustration more than anything. So, this is a good new direction, IMHO.

If there are ways that we the members can be of assistance in these changes, please let us know. (Prayer being the most obvious one, of course).

Thank you again to the staff for all your diligence. I may not agree with everything that goes on here (who me? No!). But I really do appreciate and respect all the thankless hard work you guys put in each day. I've said it before: Ya couldn't pay me enough to do it.... Well OK, maybe you could pay me to do it... but I wouldn't do it for free. LOL.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

#6 basically says "bye-bye" to fellowship in the congregation forums.

I noticed there was nothing about cleaning up the terrible doctrine here. That's disappointing, but not surprising, given the state of ChristianForums since Lee took it over.

 

[Tishri1]

I was also wondering if there will be a place that lists who current staff members are.

just popping in to direct a few bits of info your way, towards the bottom of the main page is a bar that shows the staff list and where they can be reached ...I hope that helps

I've noticed that whenever these threads come up, and members express concerns, etc. we're often told to go to the complaints/suggestions area. Thing is, (and I assume many others feel this way too), I think there's a kind of vibe that we get from that whole thing. It comes across like "we don't want to deal with you here, so go over there where we can shut you down or ignore you.". I'm sure that's not anyone's intention. But none the less, that's how it feels from a lowly member's point of view these days. Just to let you guys know. I think that's why you do see so many opinions being expressed in these kinds of threads, even beyond the scope of the current topic.

And I think I can shed some light on this as well....You are right we dont want members issues to just go away.....not at all, I work the S/C and want to see you all in there, we have a great team that really gets stuff done, so it is a good place to visit....That being said, I am speaking for me now but I think I can say we have all felt this in the past, that many times when threads like this get started and the many other member concerns get posted, it can do several things to the OP....It can redirect the discussion away from the OP, and it can drive the discussion in a direction other than what was vital at the moment... And when that happens, both the OP, and the members concerns, get unattended to.

The S/C Box(suggestions and complaints box) is for you. It is there so any concern you have will not get lost, ignored, or put out to pasture when other matters are on the table ATM.

Please utilize it for specific concerns and suggestions when we have announcements threads going.... You can always link us back to the announcement, but try to make it your friend, those who have gotten ideas and concerns addressed thru the S/C have been happy they did

Now I dont want to also take this thread OT by making it about the S/C ,so any more concerns or questions about the S/C....meet me in there ok? or PM me if you'd like too

BTW thank you for making such a warm post above

 

[MariaRegina]

. . .

The S/C Box(suggestions and complaints box) is for you. It is there so any concern you have will not get lost, ignored, or put out to pasture when other matters are on the table ATM.

Please utilize it for specific concerns and suggestions when we have announcements threads going.... You can always link us back to the announcement, but try to make it your friend, those who have gotten ideas and concerns addressed thru the S/C have been happy they did

Now I dont want to also take this thread OT by making it about the S/C ,so any more concerns or questions about the S/C....meet me in there ok? or PM me if you'd like too

BTW thank you for making such a warm post above

I have used the suggestions/complaint box, and staff do respond promptly to suggestions and consider them. It is a win/win situation.

Thanks for all the work you do in S/C.

 

[desmalia]

just popping in to direct a few bits of info your way, towards the bottom of the main page is a bar that shows the staff list and where they can be reached ...I hope that helpsAnd I think I can shed some light on this as well....You are right we dont want members issues to just go away.....not at all, I work the S/C and want to see you all in there, we have a great team that really gets stuff done, so it is a good place to visit....That being said, I am speaking for me now but I think I can say we have all felt this in the past, that many times when threads like this get started and the many other member concerns get posted, it can do several things to the OP....It can redirect the discussion away from the OP, and it can drive the discussion in a direction other than what was vital at the moment... And when that happens, both the OP, and the members concerns, get unattended to.

The S/C Box(suggestions and complaints box) is for you. It is there so any concern you have will not get lost, ignored, or put out to pasture when other matters are on the table ATM.

Please utilize it for specific concerns and suggestions when we have announcements threads going.... You can always link us back to the announcement, but try to make it your friend, those who have gotten ideas and concerns addressed thru the S/C have been happy they did

Now I dont want to also take this thread OT by making it about the S/C ,so any more concerns or questions about the S/C....meet me in there ok? or PM me if you'd like too

BTW thank you for making such a warm post above

OK, thank you. I do understand about not wanting to derail, of course.

I noticed there was nothing about cleaning up the terrible doctrine here. That's disappointing, but not surprising, given the state of ChristianForums since Lee took it over.

This is a very important point. I'm interested in starting a new thread in the S/C forum as Tishri suggested.
But I'm wondering... is it ever possible to have public threads there? It looks like those threads are all hidden to other members.

 

[Bombila]

This is a very important point. I'm interested in starting a new thread in the S/C forum as Tishri suggested.
But I'm wondering... is it ever possible to have public threads there? It looks like those threads are all hidden to other members. - desmalia

This is a huge disadvantage of the s/c forums. It is understandable that some suggestions and many complaints might be better private, but when the OP of such a thread wants input from other members not on staff, there is no place to put it.

ETA: That is the main reason threads like this get derailed. You have members wanting public input on sibjects that just cannot be made public except when an opportunity like this arises.