Change to the Appeals process, changes to Staff and a few other things

[Hentenza]

From what I read here, a 1 week or less ban cannot be appealed.
The first ban I got was for 1 month and I appealed it for quite awhile.
The 2nd one was just for a Week......something is out of whack here......Perhaps I was given a 1 week ban by the Mod so I COULDN'T appeal it?

Members may appeal Forum-specific Bans (FSBs), infractions, and bans resulting from infractions.

Members may not appeal bans of a week or less, which include cool-down bans and bans resulting from warnings. Members may not appeal to the RT regarding Executive bans issued from the Advisors. Only the Advisors may repeal Executive bans.

Ooops!!! Old FAQ. *makes note to have it changed*

To my understanding all bans are appealeable except for a cool off ban.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Ooops!!! Old FAQ. *makes note to have it changed*

To my understanding all bans are appealeable except for a cool off ban.

Ok thanks.
Also, beware when Mods start visiting yer Profile Board

 

[Tishri1]

On record, for what it is worth...I think they should. If a new system is being put in place because there was something to be improved upon then those who were members of the community who were banned after that process should have some mechanism for appealing under the new system.

I don't get a say in that but I wanted to publicly say I think that would be fair. If someone got to the point where the advisers banned them a lot would have gone down to get to that point. And part of it could have been exacerbated by things that are getting fixed in the new system. Sometimes a snowball started rolling down the mountain and it had it's own inertia that was difficult to overcome.

So in fairness some mechanism should exist for a review under the new system, if by making a new one we are honestly acknowledging unintentional flaws in the old one and that this is an attempt to improve.

This is not a knock at the old RT team, advisers or any banned members. But we do our best in the systems we have. If the systems need improving then everyone should get the benefit of the improvement.

Unless you are IP banned, you will always be allowed to post in the s/c

If you are IP banned, you may still be able to email the advisor thru "contact us"

If you lose your appeal, in many cases we will tell you that you may request your case be reopened in 3-6 months......that is all done on a case by case basis.



Can I ask that we get back to the OP now? Or are we done discussing the OP? Any more questions about the OP we can answer for you all?

All these other questions are taking the OP off topic. Lets ask those questions in the appropriate forums ok?

ETA: The assumption that the old RT needs improving is just that, an assumption...an assumption that is not correct...we are merely expanding on many of our staff's duties, and the RT will be included in that expansion. Hope that helps...

 

[DeanM]

-Edit-

God bless~

 

[Davidnic]

Can I ask that we get back to the OP now? Or are we done discussing the OP? Any more questions about the OP we can answer for you all?

All these other questions are taking the OP off topic. Lets ask those questions in the appropriate forums ok?

How are questions of who will have access to the new appeals system, off topic in a thread entitled in part: "Changes to appeals process"

ETA: The assumption that the old RT needs improving is just that, an assumption...an assumption that is not correct...we are merely expanding on many of our staff's duties, and the RT will be included in that expansion. Hope that helps...

So it is being expanded but not improved. Changed because things are changing not because anything is being made more robust. That seems at odds with the OP:

Appeals will be handled independent of the moderating staff by a rewickered Reconciliation Team who will have a stronger oversight process
​

Sorry to be a stickler on this but it seems things are devolving and people are being told things are off topic and nothing needed to be better when this whole thing was about making improvements. Stronger oversight process sounds like an improvement to me.

I stated my comment was not against the old RT team or advisers or banned members...just an observation that the system is being improved. To be very blunt. If we not even able to say that without being told that there are five lights then no one is going to build goodwill and those who have goodwill will quickly lose it.

 

[Tonks]

good grief...i'm going to close this simply so i can catch up.

 

[Tonks]

i always mess up the multi-quote function...hopefully this worked.

What are the pros and cons of making the reports thread public again? I still have copy of PM's and the posts I made the first time I got a 30 day ban which I feel was more because of "spite" reporting in some cases.

The Report Thread in the Staff Forum is located here:
http://christianforums.com/t7208530

I would think if other members could view the exchanges between Staff and the reported member, it would actually be more benficial, as they would be able to, not only determine if another member did indeed get a "spite" report, or if it was truly a legit "flame" report.

I have now learned not to engage in a person that has flamed or falsely accused me in a post, but rather I will report the post if I find it accusatory or baiting.
Just a rant from me

Eh, think that Hentenza answered this question (and the follow-ons) effectively.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7381483-19/#post52293883
We, as in supervisors? I wondered...How could supervisors know any part of "the story" surrounding her concern or consider commenting? Only Member Services (former RT) and certain non-moderator-types are privy to and can read or reply in the Suggestions-Complaint box according to rules and what I've read. Sounds like it's kept private for a good reason.

Well, a lot of the stuff is based on reports etc...so there is a least a general level of awareness of what was going on. It is also a forum for general complaints about whatever, various suggestions (update the faq, can we have a new background color scheme, blessings questions, change the format of the reports box etc)...why does the site go down every once and a while. it really is a catch-all for a wide variety of stuff.

My guess is that a supervisor can't really be a spokesperson for what goes on in that private area. I could be wrong.

You are correct. They can't even see the threads in the forum.

[/quote]

From what I read here, a 1 week or less ban cannot be appealed.
The first ban I got was for 1 month and I appealed it for quite awhile [with no success].

The 2nd one was just for a Week......something is out of whack here......Perhaps I was given a 1 week ban by the Mod so I COULDN'T appeal it?

Members may appeal Forum-specific Bans (FSBs), infractions, and bans resulting from infractions.

Members may not appeal bans of a week or less, which include cool-down bans and bans resulting from warnings. Members may not appeal to the RT regarding Executive bans issued from the Advisors. Only the Advisors may repeal Executive bans.

without looking at the specifics...I'm guessing a ban was triggered for reasons which can be found here:

Christian Forums - FAQ: How does the staff moderate the board, and how can I appeal staff actions?

ETA: The assumption that the old RT needs improving is just that, an assumption...an assumption that is not correct...we are merely expanding on many of our staff's duties, and the RT will be included in that expansion. Hope that helps...

I don't think "improvement" is a dirty word.

 

[Tonks]

Back when this site had ombudsmen, Staff complained incessantly about them

Oh, the complaints haven't ceased...just shifted somewhat. The idea that there is any sort of independent review of staff actions rubs a small number of people the wrong way...particularly in the cases when bans are overturned. Comes with the territory, I suppose.

Anyway, before you pull the trigger on me, I will as one more time:

WILL THOSE PERSONS WHO HAVE BEEN BANNED BY THE ADVISORS HAVE ACCESS TO THE NEW AND IMPROVED APPEAL SYSTEM?​

___ YES

___ NO

We've been kicking around something like this for a bit...just trying to make it fit, I suppose. That being said we're not going to form some sort of "council" to oversee all of this. The intent is to make the process more fair - not to answer every single pet peeve that someone has regarding "process." I really don't have much of a desire to get in long debate over how the sausage gets made.

The other thing, too, is that under any review system (no matter how convoluted) some bans simply will stand. Do we get things right 100% of the time? Of course not...but we don't get things 100% wrong.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Oh, the complaints haven't ceased...just shifted somewhat. The idea that there is any sort of independent review of staff actions rubs a small number of people the wrong way...particularly in the cases when bans are overturned. Comes with the territory, I suppose.



We've been kicking around something like this for a bit...just trying to make it fit, I suppose. That being said we're not going to form some sort of "council" to oversee all of this. The intent is to make the process more fair - not to answer every single pet peeve that someone has regarding "process." I really don't have much of a desire to get in long debate over how the sausage gets made.

The other thing, too, is that under any review system (no matter how convoluted) some bans simply will stand. Do we get things right 100% of the time? Of course not...but we don't get things 100% wrong.

That does does little to comfort those that were banned more because of "spite" or just differences of theological or philisophical views.

If a popular person is banned, either fairly or unfairly and leaves CF, that could also cause some others to leave.

I have already accepted the 2 bans I was given and hold no grudge or animosity towards those that either banned me or upheld it, but I do look forward to seeing how this process will be revised in the future. God bless.

 

[CaDan]

Cadan,

It appears that it really doesn't matter what answer you get, it will just not be good enough for you. You need to back off and cut it out. Don't you have a forum to go terrorize or something?

Do you have any suggestions?

 

[Tonks]

Ok...I think that it is time to concetrate on getting everything published. The target is some point this week. I'll review the suggestions and plug them into the decision matrix.